Sizing woes

[Raeshlavik]

Due to the following:

• MOBs don't appear until you're in the middle of where they live, and then they all appear at once.
• The lag inherent in the MOBs spawning in can cause a very long freeze in the client followed by an entire combat sequence happening in the blink of an eye.
• And the fact that I'm the only player between Kion and Sslanis most of the time...

I would like to request that the crazy high level group MOBs in the pre-30 areas be removed for a while... Tonight as I was trying valiantly to level my poor little level 13 Dragon by doing some of the Dragon skill quests I was brutally erased repeatedly by the level 21 blue spider and the level 20+ skeleton lieutenants - which wander the roads - and in each instance I didn't know what happened till the recall dialog popped up and I looked at my combat log.

Just a thought as I think those MOBs were put in to generate the need for grouping, which just isn't happening at this population level.

[Velea]

The area you're talking about has been revamped, but I'll address the specific mobs you're talking about.

Lesser Aradoth is designed to take players up to (and even a bit beyond) level 20. The particular critters you refer to both have long patrols that take them quite a ways from where they actually spawn, I admit. But they are there to provide a sense of danger, a feeling of challenge, to the area.

While I realize that it is frustrating to die repeatedly to them, imagine the feeling of satisfaction you'll have about 5 levels from now (and those 5 levels should come quickly), when one of the Lt's sneaks up and attacks you catching you unaware, and you open a can o' whoop-butt on him. The saying "Revenge is a dish best served 20 levels later" really applies, only it's just 5 levels (or so) later that you can serve the revenge.

We are working on adjusting spawn regions and spawn timers so that they appear sooner after you enter an area, and so that fewer mobs will spawn at once, thus reducing the lag you spoke of when multiple mobs spawn and need to be drawn at once. We recognize this as a problem, in other words, and are working to fix it. But I don't think removing the top level wandering mobs isn't the answer. They weren't included to generate grouping (though finding others would of course help), but to give a feeling of danger and challenge to the island.

[Raeshlavik]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the clarification.

If I could even see them comming and just clear out before they get there, for the next 7-8 levels at any rate (I dunno how other folks do it, but if I take on something even one level higher than me it quickly becomes death-point time), that would be grand.

[Velea]

Because of your "I don't know how other's do it" and because I've heard others say that before and discovered they were missing some things, I'm going to ask.

Do you have your spells up to date for your dragon as well as your abilities? At least in my experience at low levels, a dragon's spells are very important.

Are you wearing a claw? If so, is it right up there at your level? I can't explain it as well as my husband does, but there comes a point (quickly at low levels) where you outgrow your dragon claw, and are better leaving it unequipped than having it because your damage is capped by it.

Are you wearing the best teched scales you can? Even at low level, they help.

Have you been spending your training points each time you level? There used to be advice on how to spread out your training points over on the dragon forums. I haven't looked to see if it is still there, but if not, I'm sure others are probably wondering and would benefit from you starting a thread there asking for advice.

Even at low levels, dragons should be good with mobs a bit higher than they are, so somethings sounds a bit "off" to me. I say this as someone who isn't a very good player, too. I collect at least one death point per 2 hours of play on a good day. But that's why I love my dragon. On my biped, it's more like one DP per 10 minutes.

[Shian]

...
While I realize that it is frustrating to die repeatedly to them, imagine the feeling of satisfaction you'll have about 5 levels from now (and those 5 levels should come quickly)..."Revenge is a dish best served 20 levels later" really applies, only it's just 5 levels (or so) later that you can serve the revenge.

*snickers* Oh yes. I remeber quite how "unfair" it seemed to be for him to be roaming the roads.... which is why I turn him into itty bitty bits everytime I run into him. The "crunch" he makes is oh-so satisfying.

[Sigi]

*snickers* Oh yes. I remeber quite how "unfair" it seemed to be for him to be roaming the roads.... which is why I turn him into itty bitty bits everytime I run into him. The "crunch" he makes is oh-so satisfying.

Oh yes! So true, nothing sweeter than revenge. Pok! that will serve you! GNAGNA!

hmm sorry, let myself go a little bit...

[Raeshlavik]

Because of your "I don't know how other's do it" and because I've heard others say that before and discovered they were missing some things, I'm going to ask.

Do you have your spells up to date for your dragon as well as your abilities? At least in my experience at low levels, a dragon's spells are very important.

I believe so. If I don't, it's because I can't figure out how to purchase them... Some of the vendors don't seem to accept coin for transactions - even though their wares are listed as having a coin-ammount required for transaction. I know there used to be some deal with the lore tokens and the imperial marks, but I've tried using those as currency as well to no avail...

Are you wearing a claw? If so, is it right up there at your level? I can't explain it as well as my husband does, but there comes a point (quickly at low levels) where you outgrow your dragon claw, and are better leaving it unequipped than having it because your damage is capped by it.

Yes. I was fortunate enough to find a level 13 claw on the consigner.

I didn't know that the damage was capped by your weapon choice as a Dragon... That might be something good to stick in the tutorial.

Are you wearing the best teched scales you can? Even at low level, they help.

Umm... No. I know my chest scale is some blighted thing I found while whomping on some skeletons about 5 levels ago and my wing scale is some sandstone thing I made - but I don't have any techniques to use when creating them.

I check the consigner often, but there just isn't a lot in the way of techniques or pre-teched gear for a Dragon of my miniscule stature... The few of us who are at this sort of level (even fewer if you don't count the alts) just aren't generating much in the way of like-leveled gear to put on the consigner.

Have you been spending your training points each time you level? There used to be advice on how to spread out your training points over on the dragon forums. I haven't looked to see if it is still there, but if not, I'm sure others are probably wondering and would benefit from you starting a thread there asking for advice.

I'll do that. As I picture myself as a Lunus Dragon, full of fire and having a desire to feel my foes twitching in my talloned grasp I've spent my points in tooth and claw, strength, and hit points - in that order. Hopefully this wasn't completely stupid.

Even at low levels, dragons should be good with mobs a bit higher than they are, so somethings sounds a bit "off" to me. I say this as someone who isn't a very good player, too. I collect at least one death point per 2 hours of play on a good day. But that's why I love my dragon. On my biped, it's more like one DP per 10 minutes.

(chuckle)

Well, what usually happens is I single pull my higher-than-me target with a prime bolt and back off to a secluded area so we can be alone while we dance. I lead off with a bite so that the DoT is ticking, then tail swipe. If the swipe connects and the critter is stunned I use Ravage so that all three strikes hit because it can't dodge, otherwise I wing buffet them. I'll then breathe a bit of fire on the critter then finally ravage them if I haven't already.

This takes whatever it is to about half health.

From there it's a series of dodges, special attacks, and critical hits by the critter which drops me to a bit less than half health and I start casting breeze - then we race to see who's special attacks refresh faster... If the critter's refresh before mine, I die. If mine refresh first, it's a 50/50 chance the critter will dodge the blow and kill me anyways.

Sooo... I tend to stick to things lower level than me. Something 1 level lower than me is pitifully easy, something the same level as me is a 70% chance I'll win with a 30% chance I'll run away. Something 1 level higher than me seems to be 3-4 times more difficult than an even con.

Something 4+ levels higher than me is no contest. That thrice-dratted blue spider hits me twice for about 80% of my health as I hit the sprint button - this allows me to streak towards the safety of town, only to have the poison kill me as I reach the gates.

It's tough to be a little Dragon out in the big scarry world.

[Vaz]

I check the consigner often, but there just isn't a lot in the way of techniques or pre-teched gear for a Dragon of my miniscule stature... The few of us who are at this sort of level (even fewer if you don't count the alts) just aren't generating much in the way of like-leveled gear to put on the consigner.

Then tonight, I'll work on making techniqued scales and putting them on the New Trismus consigner at minimum price. ^_^

[Oakleif]

Umm... No. I know my chest scale is some blighted thing I found while whomping on some skeletons about 5 levels ago and my wing scale is some sandstone thing I made - but I don't have any techniques to use when creating them.

I check the consigner often, but there just isn't a lot in the way of techniques or pre-teched gear for a Dragon of my miniscule stature... The few of us who are at this sort of level (even fewer if you don't count the alts) just aren't generating much in the way of like-leveled gear to put on the consigner.

If you find scales or spells aren't on the consigner, or you want techs added that aren't on the ones you've seen, ask on Dragon or MarketPlace channels and someone will usually be around that would be happy to make them for you. Most T1 items seem to be given away way below cost or even free, start to expect to pay standard rates (look at the consigner) for items T2 and up unless you provide the resources and components for what you want.

I'll do that. As I picture myself as a Lunus Dragon, full of fire and having a desire to feel my foes twitching in my talloned grasp I've spent my points in tooth and claw, strength, and hit points - in that order. Hopefully this wasn't completely stupid.

Personally, I highly recommend putting two points per level into T&C and two points per level into Primal until you are around level 30 at least, then think about spending other points elsewhere. The higher training points in Primal will let you learn upgrades to spells sooner as well as making them more accurate and more damaging/healing.

---combat techniqes

Sounds right for weaker armor and spells that aren't tech'd. Try rearranging your training points as I suggested and see if that and better gear will carry the day for you. And make sure that you get any healing spells you can, and keep the three most powerful (as soon as you get that many) on your hotkey bar. They don't stack, but aren't on the same timer either, so you can use one while another is refreshing.

Also, work on completing the ability quests for Gerix as soon as possible. You'll find him on the roof of the vault in Kion. And look at the links in my sig for the dragon quest guide so you can plan which order you'd like to do them in. Gold Rage, Silver Strike, Dragon's Gift, and Primal Instant Heal are all highly important (but harder to get than the other skills, so you may want to work on some of the other ones first).

Now, having said that...

Sooo... I tend to stick to things lower level than me. Something 1 level lower than me is pitifully easy, something the same level as me is a 70% chance I'll win with a 30% chance I'll run away. Something 1 level higher than me seems to be 3-4 times more difficult than an even con.

You'll learn that some mobs (like beetles) have abilities (like hardened shell) that also drastically affects the damage done to them. I make sure "Others Abilities" shows up over their head (having turned off the damage numbers) so that I can see when they use those abilities and adjust what attacks I do until it has had a chance to wear off.

That thrice-dratted blue spider hits me twice for about 80% of my health as I hit the sprint button - this allows me to streak towards the safety of town, only to have the poison kill me as I reach the gates.

I'm in my 40's adventuring, and I still kill that spider every time I see it as I'm on my way from Kion or Parsinia to the gem mines. If you see it and can keep away from it (and are on Chaos), yodel and I'll be happy to come squish it for you!

[Frith-Rae]

and the OP and Valea need to remember - hatchlings are weaker than the biped counterparts. It is by intended design that we have trouble taking on things our level or one level above...

5 or 6 levels above - forget'about it...

But yea as the poster said, if we could somehow "fix" things (if its possible at this point I dont know) that you could at least get some visual warning or appearance before the mob is on top of you -that would solve the problem. As the player who knows they will only be mauled to death can get out of the way .

[gopher65]

and the OP and Valea need to remember - hatchlings are weaker than the biped counterparts. It is by intended design that we have trouble taking on things our level or one level above...

5 or 6 levels above - forget'about it...

Yup. I found this to be true until my dragon was in his early 30's. Before that he was putridly weak. It's mostly because of the level based ability quests. Most of them can't be done easily (without help) until you are 20-25. By the time you get them done you are level 30, and starting to ramp up your powers.

[Carenath]

Due to the following:
... I was brutally erased repeatedly by the level 21 blue spider and the level 20+ skeleton lieutenants..

Oh God I remember those.. I remember when that Huntress Spider (L21) wiped me out while I was killing treants for a quest. I took quite a bit of pleasure killing it, and those Lieutenents. I still kill them.. and those friggin wolves.

[Raeshlavik]

Well, I'm 21 adventure and 20 craft now.

It seems to me that there is a lot of 'plateau' in leveling a Dragon. What I mean by this is there are some groups of levels that are easy, and others that are what we used to refer to as "hell levels".

For example, between 16th and 20th I found that my life as a Dragon was actually pretty easy - I had grown into my abilities a bit with the various Dragon training quests available and I was pretty much ruling whatever area I was questing in.

Now I'm 21, starting on the second tier of the Dragon quests, and spending a lot of time either dead or running away.

I figure this is because I don't have my tier 2 abilities yet and I don't have the lore tokens to get the formulas for things like my head scale - mostly due to the difficulty of finishing a T-II quest without T-II abilities (and the fact I spent all the tokens I had on things like techniques).

What adds to the difficulty is that the critters I'm sent out to fight don't seem to have the same stipulations that my Dragon teachers do and they all have their T-II abilities and love to use them on me.

For the most part I will probably find some group of 'things' in the 17-20 range and just grind them to 25, then work on the T-II dragon quests when I'm a bit tougher.

It seems to me, so far, that everything after levels 15, 25, 35, etc should be nice and relaxed, but getting to level 15, 25, 35, etc is going to be arduous at best.

That's ok though, I like a challenge.

[gopher65]

Heh, yeah Raeshlavik, there are certainly "hell levels" for dragons. I suspect that as I continue to level they will turn out to be the first 5 levels of every tier up to level 75, and then it will be easy after that until I have to go do my ARoP.

But if you think Level 20-25 is bad, wait till you get to 30-35. Personally I think levels 30-35 Dragon Adventurer were the hardest of any school in the game that I've tried (so far). I think it has to do less with the power of my dragon (which is fine now) and more with the distribution of mob spawns, density of those spawns, and power level of the mobs compared to your own power level. Certain mobs like Spiders get disproportionately greater skill increases than players do as we both increase in level. So a level 20 Dragon facing off against a level 20 spider has a better chance than a level 40 Dragon facing off against a level 40 spider (though hoard abilities make up for some of this in Dragons, an multiclassing makes up for some of this in Bipeds).

As for spawns, monster spawns between levels 20 and 80 haven't been redone yet for the most part, so they are all pretty far apart and either sparely populated or so dense that you couldn't pick out an individual mob if your life depended on it. This really slows down levelling time and makes the whole process that much more frustrating.

[Vermithraxx]

One tactical possibility you should be aware of...

How much do you hate crafting?

If you have the patience/tenacity/insanity<heh> to do multiple crafting levels, this game give you serious advantages.

1.) +5 pts to every stat (Health, Str, Foc, Power, Dex) per craft level

2.) Scales slots are based on adventure OR crafting level. If you get your self to lvl 40 craft (for example), you'll also get your first foreleg and second wing scales.

3.) Scale type (material) is also based on either/or level. Lvl 40 gets you granite/steel scales, 60 would get you Obsidian/Cobalt, etc.

4.) You first four tiers of stone (Sandstone, Slate, Granite, Osidian) are all unguarded. You could, theoretically, have a level 1/80+ dragon and then start hunting decked out in triple-teched marble scales

(Having done that <heh>, I can tell you that while decked in full triple-teched marble, you can kill mobs 25+ lvls above you.)

[Kardaff]

You know.. i have just started this game aprox:1 month afo just finished Trial. and i found on the idland and around Kion, Sslian,Parsani, and othe rplaces i like that omg feeling when is htis skeleton going to apear i know i cant take him. but that makes me alert and more aware of whats happening around me.. and to me that is what i love of this game the what if and when is it going to happen to me. when am i going to get jumped by that nasty skeleton or omg i hope that blue hunter spider dont show up today..

But i think and hope it actually does show up to add some spice to my life i always try to take a stab at them reguardless if i die its ok it was a lesson learned for me.. not to do that again.well till the next encounter. but thats why i keep my two sprints locked and loaded for that very situation..

As far as mobs jumping up on the screen yes that is very anoying running up to the bronze and sandstoen golems for example runup the path by Parsani nothing there i like wth then all of a sudden poof i am running for my life becasue thers golems all after me due to a long delay before the mobs have showed there selfs..that is anoying...