Tokens for plot reclaims?

[GalemThawn]

I for myself after reading such posts will not return, because i am not welcome to us player. And like me many others will act. So dont fear that ill get an plot and you not: a plot token and a lair token from two accounts will not be used! have fun.

Woah! Slow down there. Don't read one post and think you are unwelcomed by US players. Don't let a single or even a few players drive you away from Horizons. I don't think anyone actually said that Unitarians are not welcomed, but even if they did, there are a lot of other players that would welcome you.

[Creme]

...but only if we don't get plots/lairs?

That's a rather twisted interpretation of this discussion. No one has said you shouldn't get plots/lairs.

This thread is to discuss the impact to long time existing shard players who have been trying to "upsize" or even to get their first lair, if tokens are introduced into the equation.

Please keep the thread on topic and try not to turn it into another "US hates the EU" rant.

[Guaran]

I say let the Unity players have plot tokens. Even if it was someone who had a 25x25 and they (maybe) get a nice upgrade, then so be it. Look what they've been thru.

Besides, I dont feel there will be "not enough plots to go around" Hell there's plenty of plots for sale in nice places like harro and no one has bought them.....

You guys are worrying about nothing. Give the unity players tokens. After that let people bid on whats left (which will still be ALOT of open plots).

[CottenCandy]

I really do feel bad that Unity lost there home. But i would like to make a suggestion... There really isn't that many players compared to even a year ago that play anymore. I can understand trying to give Unity a new home and making them fill welcomed and i'm all for that but I been playing this game a year now (after EI take over) and on chaos there is no lairs left and your lucky to find a plot bigger then 25x25.... I think before Unity is transferred do the plot reclaim and that way Order and chaos gets first pick of the plots/lairs they want (yes i know alot wont think this fair and as anything i say on here it's just my oppinion) there's more then enough big plots for members these days and that's even including the ones that can afford 5 accounts (lol i'm not one of them). I understand you guys haven't had a home but honestly neither have alot of us.

that's my two cents worth
CC aka Lila

[LOVWYRM]

I think here is some missunderstanding:
Tarot-I DO NOT read the post of Zexoin in such a negative way- it`s just annother opinion- why not?

If it is a token or whatever compensation- there is no need to give us Unitatians better chances than the "original inhabitants". We all should be treated equal .Anything else will not be useful for the community.

And stop that °!"§$ that we are not welcome. It makes me flame.
You only have to read THIS thread.

I`m in a NA-guild, more than friendly treated and getting help and integrated from the first second on and in groups as well.

We ARE welcome (I never took that for granted)- but you have to be willing to give it a try!

[Aamer Khan]

Most of us on the US servers have had plenty of time to get plots and build on them, something the unity players have not had for over a year.

Regardless of what size our plots may be or whether we stuck through the dark days of EI management, It would NOT be fair to treat the Unity player any different then we were treated when WE got our plots.

I am all for them getting tokens that trump cash bids on any plots that get reclaimed, INCLUDING guild communities that have remained unbuilt because the master plot owner quit long ago.

Would I like to have something new to build on? SURE!

But I already have something ... let's freely give the Unity player an equal chance to Have something too.

[Frith-Rae]

I would IMAGINE that rather than reworking the whole system - they devs WOULD just use the token/coin system as they've used twice already - it worked and its been worked out.

*Assuming* Unity Characters get their stuff transferred in full, that those who previously held lairs that had construction on them would get tokens for the lair lost, and novians for whatever construction they lost. That's how its worked in the past, for prior merges, and worked pretty well as far as I saw. I don't udnerstand nor see why Vi would want to rework a system already in place and coded.

I see NO reason why any players of chaos/order should get a token. They lost no lair. They lost no server. They aren't being forced to lose a lair and its construction against their will, i.e. like in a merge, and choose a new location or to compete with anyone. Anyone on Chaos or Order has had ample time to ramp up money if they knew they'd be eventually bidding on a bigger lair - OR they had ample time to choose another location. Yea maybe they weren't prime real estate but I'm sorry if it seems harsh - that shouldn't matter. Noone promised anyone that everyone would get prime real estate.

Unity players had their server taken away - characters taken away - bambam - no game. Imagine that Order or CHaos suddenly self imploded and you lost everything .

You owned a plot - you have a right to that token as stated by the systems previously decided upon and enacted.

As you lost your plot with no choice - tokens give you a plot - garentee you a plot SOMEHWERE. Working with/for/against/coin whatever the way it always has in the past.

Why would it change at this point?? Because there are people ont he shard already established who want a better lair position?? That's really apples and oranges - and it wouldn't be fair.

That's like saying "ok every time we have a plot reclamation everyone gets a token and novians and the whole process starts over from scratch". Which is bunko.

They're probably going to do it the way they've always done it - as that is simplest and effective and the most fair way of doing so. It would be UNFAIR to people choosing NOT to move their lairs to give chaos/order players tokens. There is no reason why Unity players, who lost a lair against their will, should have to compete on even ground with players who've had years to build lairs (prime locations or not, wether you chose to or not). And it would be UNFAIR to Unity players who didn't choose to reroll hatchlings to make it coin only - for they've been without coin making ability going on what..over a year - possibly two.

Yea I'm on order. Yea I have my dream lair (purchased with coin with helps from lots of others since Lair Release was coin not token based). But if I didn't I would STILL never be asking the devs to put me on even groudn with Unity players. If I didn't use my time to go ahead and get a plot in a non-prime location wether I wanted to or not - that's MY fault not the devs and not the Unity Players.

I just am not getting how Chaos/Order players can logically argue this?? Maybe I"m missing something.

[LaughingOtter]

There is one deep and fundamental difference between the folks moving from Unity and the current players on Order & Chaos, and that is loss. The Unity players lost everything, and that loss was no fault of their own. The reasons and the blame throwing are irrelevant; what matters is that it was the players who were made to suffer and who have, at this point, lost everything they ever cared about or worked for in the game.

The Unity players worked just as hard as anyone on Order or Chaos to build what they had before it was taken away from them. They deserve a chance to be made whole, and the best way to ensure that a player who owned a plot once is able to own a plot again is to use the tokens. The current players might lose an opportunity to upgrade, yes, but that's all. Just an opportunity, not an actual loss. The Unity players have suffered an actual loss, and that is the critical difference.

Further, everything being said against Unity players getting tokens now was said years ago against those who lost their plots in the merge. How many of you speaking out against tokens now had tokens back then and considered it perfectly fair?

[Zexoin]

I think here is some missunderstanding:
Tarot-I DO NOT read the post of Zexoin in such a negative way- it`s just annother opinion- why not?

If it is a token or whatever compensation- there is no need to give us Unitatians better chances than the "original inhabitants". We all should be treated equal .Anything else will not be useful for the community.

And stop that °!"§$ that we are not welcome. It makes me flame.
You only have to read THIS thread.

I`m in a NA-guild, more than friendly treated and getting help and integrated from the first second on and in groups as well.

We ARE welcome (I never took that for granted)- but you have to be willing to give it a try!

Thank you Lovwyrm, you've understood what I meant - I am Euro myself, english is not my native language, so sometimes it's hard for me to explain clearly what I think. Well of course I want to see more Unitarian on live shards ! There are already a few on Order, and I think I've made them very welcome there.
All That I wanted to say, is that Unitarians should be equal to current NA shards inhabitants, plus a compensation for the year they couldn't play. All I want is fairness, and token system is not fair.

Why can't everyone give their opinion calmly and stop flamming when they don't agree with someone ??

[Creme]

Yea I'm on order. Yea I have my dream lair (purchased with coin with helps from lots of others since Lair Release was coin not token based). But if I didn't I would STILL never be asking the devs to put me on even groudn with Unity players. If I didn't use my time to go ahead and get a plot in a non-prime location wether I wanted to or not - that's MY fault not the devs and not the Unity Players.

I just am not getting how Chaos/Order players can logically argue this?? Maybe I"m missing something.

Maybe there is no problem on Order; however, there is a shortage of lairs on Chaos, and it's not even a case of wanting a larger lair, it's a case of THERE ARE NO NON-GUILD-LOCKED-UP available lairs on Chaos.

In most of these cases, the few guild lairs that ARE available, the guild masters are gone. So, bottom line is there are no lairs available on Chaos. What is on Chaos? A number of longtime (as well as not-quite-so-longtime) dragons that want lairs. We have a ever growing population of dragons that are crying out for lairs (and not particularly demanding a huge lair, BUT ANY LAIR).

You also have players like Telshyia above, who have been playing for a VERY long time and have been gradually upscaling their plot and had been looking forward to the OPPORTUNITY to bid on equal terms against ANY OTHER player, for a large plot.

[Creme]

There is one deep and fundamental difference between the folks moving from Unity and the current players on Order & Chaos, and that is loss. The Unity players lost everything, and that loss was no fault of their own. The reasons and the blame throwing are irrelevant; what matters is that it was the players who were made to suffer and who have, at this point, lost everything they ever cared about or worked for in the game.

If there is a transfer, then there's a good possibility that nothing will have been lost, other than their time in game (and plot/lair location). Saying they have lost everything is overdramatic, as only time will tell, and a successful transfer, of what, if any, their losses entail.

The Unity players worked just as hard as anyone on Order or Chaos to build what they had before it was taken away from them. They deserve a chance to be made whole, and the best way to ensure that a player who owned a plot once is able to own a plot again is to use the tokens. The current players might lose an opportunity to upgrade, yes, but that's all. Just an opportunity, not an actual loss. The Unity players have suffered an actual loss, and that is the critical difference.

Further, everything being said against Unity players getting tokens now was said years ago against those who lost their plots in the merge. How many of you speaking out against tokens now had tokens back then and considered it perfectly fair?

I didn't think tokens were a good way to go the first time around, either; as existing plots were in a minority and you had players from x number of shards all with tokens, where other long time players had tried and failed to snap up one of the few plots that were in game at that time.

Fact is, lairs are in high demand, and practically non-existant on Chaos. How many new players do you stand to lose, especially with our influx of new dragons, if they are prevented from being able to purchase one of the lairs coming available?

[Wisperer]

i agree with Frith-Rae, theres no reason not to use the token system. They (unity players) lost everything and its time they got it back.
Personally i think that if the plot/lair that a unity player had is owned right now by a non-active account that they should automatically get that plot/lair here with no token given just novians so they can rebuild it.



I just came back to the game and yes i want a lair (120/120/144) i even found one but gave others the info, and did not get a finders fee. , because i have no coin.

[Takora Drakan]

Thanks Fith-Rae, I mean I also grinded 37gold out t buy my dream lair on unity and got it. Was so **** happy about it that i putted tons of gold in it that others can earn money on it. Even others helped me for free to build my lair because they where so glad that i puttet all t4 craftign machines in it because my lair was near ressources, was great for others but I chossed my lair because of the beautiful landscape not because of the ress there.

[LaughingOtter]

If there is a transfer, then there's a good possibility that nothing will have been lost, other than their time in game (and plot/lair location).

You don't consider those to be significant losses? I would, if it happened to me.

Fact is, lairs are in high demand, and practically non-existant on Chaos. How many new players do you stand to lose, especially with our influx of new dragons, if they are prevented from being able to purchase one of the lairs coming available?

One player with one token can purchase one plot. One player who has spent the last year farming cash by use of exploits could finance the purchase of entire communities by a single guild if they wished. Who is the bigger threat to these new dragons you speak of?

I suspect that the number of Unity players wishing to buy a lair is far smaller than the number of current players anxious to buy large plots and lairs at a minimal price and strip them for Novians. Every time there has been a plot reclaimation, there have been many, many more plots available than there have been players shopping, mostly because the players with the money for a plot already have one.

"Won't somebody think of the hatchlings!!!1!" has a lot of emotional appeal, but little foundation in fact.

[GalemThawn]

I think it must also be taken into consideration that some Unity players already have well developed characters AND plots on Chaos, and maybe on Order.

[Creme]

You don't consider those to be significant losses? I would, if it happened to me.

If they were naked, vaultless, everything-less, this would be a hugely significant loss; although there have been a number of Unity player that have stated that even under these terms, they would return, just to have their characters back. This is extremely brave and laudable. We all love our characters and the time/work we have put into them.

If the character, vault, inventory is restored in full as well as novians to rebuild, then the loss would be great, but not the end of the world, especially considering that no one but GN had anything to do with their losses, and that Virtrium will have expended great effort and time into doing the best possible effort into refitting them...while balancing out doing something that can discourage existing, loyal customers.

I don't argue that this is a tough situation and a tough decision to make. However, each shard is affected differently and uniquely by what may come out of a reclaimation/token bid system.

One player with one token can purchase one plot. One player who has spent the last year farming cash by use of exploits could finance the purchase of entire communities by a single guild if they wished. Who is the bigger threat to these new dragons you speak of?

I suspect that the number of Unity players wishing to buy a lair is far smaller than the number of current players anxious to buy large plots and lairs at a minimal price and strip them for Novians. Every time there has been a plot reclaimation, there have been many, many more plots available than there have been players shopping, mostly because the players with the money for a plot already have one.

"Won't somebody think of the hatchlings!!!1!" has a lot of emotional appeal, but little foundation in fact.

There was a thread about novian farming, please go bump that one if you're that concerned with novian farming. I am disturbed that you would try and twist this to be so that masses of players can snap up plots to novian farm. Novians, IMO are annoying and not worth the bother, other than to rebuild/replan one's existing plot/lair. Extremely cynical attitude on why existing players might want plots/lairs.

Regarding the one player coin exploiting and funding an entire guild's purchase of large properties.... I do believe I saw some post in another thread where a moderator mentioned not bringing up exploits as they are slanderous and some other stuff.

I understand your concerns. I do think that would be ameliorated in some fashion by the fact that only dragons own lairs, and I don't see 40 dragons running out to add a 2nd or 3rd subscription to tack on more lairs, so I'm going to look realistically at the situation. What we do have is current, lairless dragons with subscriptions that do have a plot/lair slot available.

I'm suggesting an even footing and not looking to have an overwhelming advantage from one group or another.

Those of you that do already have property and are not particularly interested in acquiring more or different property, good for you, but do realize you have quite a number of folks that are not as fortunate as yourselves.

Me, I'm not looking to add any lairs or large plots at this point; however I do know a good number of players that would like one. I would like to see that they have an equal shot at getting one, especially considering they've been waiting for a reclamation to happen well before Unity ever got axed.


Oh, and regarding "think of the hatchlings", you might want to spend some more time in dragon chat and truly get some idea of how bad the lack of lair situation is on Chaos. It is not only hatchlings that have been expressing how badly they want a lair and how long they've been looking.

I do want to add, I forget the player that mentioned they returned and spotted a lair and didn't have the coin for it, so let someone that did have coin that wanted it buy it.

That was an extremely generous thing you did and hopefully, when you do have coin, there will be property available for you.

[Kulamata]

I'd suggest stepping back, taking a deep breath and a nap.

So far Virtrium has been outstanding in their understanding of players' needs and desires. I trust them to continue; and expect a fair and imaginative proposal from them covering plot reclamation, repayment, restitution and creation.

The exact policy may depend on how many plots are reclaimed, and how many of them are guild master plots, how many subscribers there are, whether existing plots have been or will be enlarged, and other such considerations. Some of those data just won't be known for a while.

Until such time as Virtrium puts out a proposal for discussion, no point in getting our Special Pants in twist. We don't need to climb the decision tree before we cross the burning bridge.

It's also worth remembering that the plot redistribution portion of the merger was well thought out, previewed, reviewed, and modified. It worked very well, and was quite fair. (Best part of the merger besides the Novian Machine). Some of the present devs may have been part of that....

I'm sure that a lot of thought will be put into the matter to ensure fairness. But let's see the proposal before commenting on it.

And finally, YES, the Unity folks are/will be welcome!

[LaughingOtter]

It is not only hatchlings that have been expressing how badly they want a lair and how long they've been looking.

I'm aware of that. I also think that those who have been working for one will be able to get one if they wish. I expect that there will be many, many lairs available.

As for the Novian farmers and exploiters, I mention them only to illustrate that there are other factors which could come in to play. The fact that something might happen isn't reason enough to ignore what did happen.

[Chasing]

Okay I have just spent a long time reading through this thread trying to take in all the different issues.

I can see the different sides of problem and the majority of this thread is balanced and fair.

The main message I see throughout is that anyone from Unity would be welcome on either Chaos or Order, however what people want is a fair way for the plot issue to be resolved that fits both existing Chaos and Unity players. As already discussed this is not going to be an easy thing to do.

There are lots of different options that Virtrium could choose to implement, one of them being the plot token method. However all we can do is speculate as to what might happen. I am not asking for an official statement from Virtrium as to what is going to happen as personally I think that it is too soon for that.

I know that many people would like something like that as reassurance that everything is going to be okay. We have had so many problems in the past whether it be GN, Artifact, Tulga, EI etc that we almost expect the worst to happen. Are we really expecting the same to happen with Virtrium??

Let me explain

So far since September we have had
- a new secure billing system
- new content
- Blight shard reinstated
- A new event and another in the pipeline
- A new support site and timely responses to support tickets
- New forum moderators that respond to our questions to the best of their ability
- Advice on how to deal with the billing fiasco from EI
- etc....

Horizons I think has never had an owner like this before

Again I think that Virtrium is not going to fully release details of the unity transfer/plot repo etc until they are ready and confident. I also trust that Virtrium are going to make a decision that will be best for existing chaos/order players and returning unity players. So far nothing that they have done suggests otherwise.

Chasing.

[Trust]

The original concern that was voiced was that people with a 20x20 token could trump a 100x100 plot. that is a very real concern. However, if a person from Unity who owned that same 100x100 plot on thier server could be denied getting THEIR PLOT BACK because of a huge cash bid. I think that is unacceptable: Unity players have not had 3 years to amass wealth. Try to see both sides of the coin. Perhaps the reason Vi has not rushed to merge/transfer is because of these kinds of flies in the ointment. One thing I would sugest to be implimented is that there should be plot tokens and lair tokens; they should be distigushed from one another.
This thread makes me want to watch Blazing Saddles for some reason.