Tokens for plot reclaims?

[Aaelefein]

I would IMAGINE that rather than reworking the whole system - they devs WOULD just use the token/coin system as they've used twice already - it worked and its been worked out.

*Assuming* Unity Characters get their stuff transferred in full, that those who previously held lairs that had construction on them would get tokens for the lair lost, and novians for whatever construction they lost. That's how its worked in the past, for prior merges, and worked pretty well as far as I saw. I don't udnerstand nor see why Vi would want to rework a system already in place and coded.

Um...now I wasn't around for the merger that created Order/Chaos, so correct me if I am wrong, but Unity alts being transferred to Order/Chaos is TOTALLY different from the shard merger. In the latter case, did not ALL people that had plots lose them?

Assuming that was the case, in this situation...tokens that trump all-coin bids seems unfair in my opinion.

On the same subject...(without further quotes, but also in reply to the same message)...

I do agree...Chaos/Order players should not get tokens. However...

With the exception of having multiple accounts, if an (ex) Unity player currently has an alt on Order/Chaos and owns a plot...a transferred alt from the old Unity DB should not qualify for a token. Novians from their old plot, yes, but not a token (See dev suggestion below at bottom)

Again...these are just opinions and suggestions. I look forward to Unitarians joining us in Order/Chaos...more players makes for a more lively shard, not to mention greater chances for forming hunting groups, trades, and construction employment.

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On a side note, and a suggestion for the Dev's...it would be nice if it was possible to more easily transfer coin/property to alts on the same acocunt without requiring the use of an intermediary or secondary account/computer.

[Guaran]

I think Frith-Rae and Klaus stated what I was thinking even better than I did. Ultimately the token method is the "most fair" solution IMHO. There may not exist a 100% perfect solution. But that one seems the most reasonable.

Keep in mind, that multiple Unity players could place tokens on the same plot. Only one will win. Guilds will place MULTIPLE TOKENS on guild master plots. So 3, 5 even 10 tokens could all get used in that fashion (ala the first shard merges) just to obtain a single guild community.

Think about it. How many guild communities will come up for grabs? Everyone says there's a shortage of plots but I disagree. Once the reclaim happens, there are going to be more than enough.

Give unity their tokens already.

[Vermithraxx]

Well, keep in mind that the plot reclaims are being held up for the Unity issue. Since Unity will have been restored (IF it can be done) long before the plot reclaims can even be attempted (another project that I suspect will be 'iffy' and take months by the time they get around to it), all of the Unity players will have their cash back from 3 years of playtime and a (few?) month(s) to re-establish themselves on their new server.

(Personally, if I were Virtrium, I'd hold off on the plot reclaim until 2+ months after Unity. Virtrium's looking forward to the sudden flush of cash that will occur when all those players sign up for one month just to see where their characters left off... but we don't want the one-timers buying plots and leaving the plot system stagnant. Again.)

It doesn't seem like there will be any need for tokens since everybody will be on equal footing (by the time they get around to the plot reclaims late next year), assuming Unity can be restored at all.

[Krystine]

I look forward to our fellow players from Unity joining us. The addition of more veteran players will great. I have many friends and guildmates looking to upgrade plots when autions come. My current plot is one I bought with a token at merge. Fact is that I've never had as much gold as the plot cost. All this makes me understand the various sides in the issue.
That brings me to what would be good for the game. Give the Unity players tokens so they can place bids which may give them a great plot. Hopefully many from Unity will subscribe to play the US server.
Blind bidding has been used in past. Find many plots you'd like and bid on all of them. After every auction so far many have been left unsold.
If all goes well there will be another repossesion a few months later and on a regular basis thereafter. It won't take all that long for those who wish to upgrade to do so. The very best plots may not open for a long time. Folks work hard to get them and are likely to stay with the game.

[Silverblaze]

make room for captain callous.

I got news for some unity players... some of those plots and lairs you owned are owned by current players and there is NO chance of you getting it back.

it sucks. I empathize. Heres my honest opinion. They can give you coin equal to what the plot was worth, or maybe even what you paid for it down to the copper.... but a token can beat any cash bid. I dont care if you get a better plot than me, but give me equal chance to get it.
I am not a fan of compensating people ofr losses AND then some...thats whata token would do. period.

I never had a plot when the first merge happened and thought it was bogus then.

I dont wanna novian farm I want a nice big plot to repay my guild for the storage they let me use for YEARS.

My logic falls on deaf ears though.

I dont want anyone to get hurt...that includes long time players who have been paying for that year unity hasnt. Yes I realize they couldnt, but why make those folks angry that did pay?

Got more news for those unity folks... we played in a stagnant almost nonexistant game with no reclaim for a year, so if we didnt have a good plot prior we still didnt get one...almost even footing plot wise.

And as for not being welcome....

I welcome all playes good nad bad, it makes the game money.

What I dont welcome are people with a sense of entitlement, whiners, braggarts or folks who command people to compensate for thigns that arent our fault. This has noting to do with race,creed,location, religion or age. Please kee that in mind. Oh and most of the nay sayers are on chaos btw so even if chaos as a whole doesnt "welcome" you...order likely will with a miniscule population and many more plots. Just a little advice without the sugar coating.

I unlike telshyia wont apologize for my opinion or feelings. I'm honest to a fault.

I will apologize however that this thread caused such heat, but people need to know how folks feel or it'll just lead to more resentment later.

[Zexoin]

make room for captain callous.

I got news for some unity players... some of those plots and lairs you owned are owned by current players and there is NO chance of you getting it back.

it sucks. I empathize. Heres my honest opinion. They can give you coin equal to what the plot was worth, or maybe even what you paid for it down to the copper.... but a token can beat any cash bid. I dont care if you get a better plot than me, but give me equal chance to get it.
I am not a fan of compensating people ofr losses AND then some...thats whata token would do. period.

I never had a plot when the first merge happened and thought it was bogus then.

I dont wanna novian farm I want a nice big plot to repay my guild for the storage they let me use for YEARS.

My logic falls on deaf ears though.

I dont want anyone to get hurt...that includes long time players who have been paying for that year unity hasnt. Yes I realize they couldnt, but why make those folks angry that did pay?

Got more news for those unity folks... we played in a stagnant almost nonexistant game with no reclaim for a year, so if we didnt have a good plot prior we still didnt get one...almost even footing plot wise.

And as for not being welcome....

I welcome all playes good nad bad, it makes the game money.

What I dont welcome are people with a sense of entitlement, whiners, braggarts or folks who command people to compensate for thigns that arent our fault. This has noting to do with race,creed,location, religion or age. Please kee that in mind. Oh and most of the nay sayers are on chaos btw so even if chaos as a whole doesnt "welcome" you...order likely will with a miniscule population and many more plots. Just a little advice without the sugar coating.

I unlike telshyia wont apologize for my opinion or feelings. I'm honest to a fault.

I will apologize however that this thread caused such heat, but people need to know how folks feel or it'll just lead to more resentment later.

QFT
.......

[Galilee]

<Sigh> Wish that Unity-island/-continent could have been realized by Vi. Would have solved a lot of (potential or real) issues... and prevented a lot of these difficult feelings...
Would even have enlárged the number of the so much sought after lairs (and worthwhile plots)... <sighs again>

But while that doesn't seem to be happening: how about any Chaos-/Order-player wishing an in their view better chance to get a wanted-by-them plot/lair then they see for themselves in light of the unity-players joining, getting the choice (voluntarily of course; so better choice then the unity-folks had) to turn in their current lair/plot at the point in time where tokens will be given out, in exchange for the same kind of token that Unity-players will or maybe will be getting? And also give a token to any Chaos/Order-players wanting but not having ány plot/lair on their name yet? Would put all that so wished on what they would feel as equal terms, wouldn't it? (Of course those given-up plots/lairs would then be put in the reclamation-pool, not just be put up for sale right away). Maybe this choice would help to solve/prevent any frightened or angry feelings amongst the original population?

[Tryagain]

I see this as a no win situation for Vitrium.

[TelShyia]

I say let the Unity players have plot tokens. Even if it was someone who had a 25x25 and they (maybe) get a nice upgrade, then so be it. Look what they've been thru.

Besides, I dont feel there will be "not enough plots to go around" Hell there's plenty of plots for sale in nice places like harro and no one has bought them.....

You guys are worrying about nothing. Give the unity players tokens. After that let people bid on whats left (which will still be ALOT of open plots).

Guaran, that is all well and good for someone who has a 100x100 or even several of them, but Druidess and I have stuck with this game when others have bailed, and been waiting VERY paientently for some of these stagnate OLD accounts to be reclaimed. Now, after SEVERAL YEARS of hard work to get coin, you suggest that someone with a token, who had MAYBE a 25x25 plot on Unity be allowed to 'upgrade' to a 100x100 and outbid me just because of that! Sorry my old friend, but that is simply outrageous! Allowing for that to happen will alienate SEVERAL of the (and yes, now I am) older players on Chaos!
DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I have nothing but good feelings for our Unity Friends, in fact Dru and I have been, if nothing else, the best of friends with all if not most of them! Heck check some of thier plots! Dru has built on numerous ones for them. And I do mean more than just one or two! She has made several of thier tools, armor, etc when they were just starting here on Chaos.
But to allow for them to have tokens is just as unfair to us on Chaos that have waited lo these past years for a plot reclamation to happen.
Dru had a good sugestion, if they had a 25x25 plot on Unity, then let the token be worth a 25x25 plot here, if they want an upgrade, let them bid on it, just as we have to...but to allow it to 'buy' a larger plot and effectively cancel what ever i want to bid on the larger plots, is just bad.

[velveeta]

lol trust, i know the line you mean.......pc prevents me from posting it, but we are simpatico!!!

here is my 2 cents, for whatever anyone cares.....
i never want to speak for the live shards, but any person from unity (and we have gotten quite a few already) that want to come to blight and play nice with us, is more than welcome! we have plenty of plots large and small, we are a barter economy (please keep that in mind when considering blight as a home), and we are basically one big guild! i am generally a benevolent tyrant, and when blight's vegas is done, middle cliffside will be rocking!

regarding the plot token issue - i am not opposed to the idea, as long as the tokens are worth a specific amount (my 101x101 plot was 12 gold, so my token should be worth 12 gold) and not a 'trumps real money' thing. i am sorry for the unity peeps, speaking as a blightie, but i do not see where they should be compensated for not being able to play. we on blight certainly were not..........
otherwise, i think the only fair thing to do is before plot reclaim, unity folks should recieve the price of thier plot in coin and any building done returned in novians.
that way, the players of the shard, no matter where they started, are on equal footing when the auction or land grab or whatever is gonna happen to the plot thingy happens.

and i don't see where anyone posted anything about not wanting the unity players on the shard or said anything unwelcoming in and of itself......
i think a lot of peeps are getting a tad touchy (i was myself last week, so i know how easily it can get out of hand), and we all need to, as suggested above, take a nice deep breath, think for a minute about things from the other perspective, and then think about the post you are about to make.

[Silverblaze]

Good call cheese cat.

[Jayne]

Sounds like a precedence was already set if tokens were used twice in the past.

And IF these players assumed they would be getting tokens to make up for there loss then they would not have even bothered to make tons of coin in the mean time, so letting the auction go that route only would not be equal.

Is there a way for Vi to see what size plot a Unity player had and give him a token that trumps for that size or less only???

No idea just thinking out loud

[Alacor Vashnore]

Ok wow that was alot of reading. I also like the idea of unity being brought in for atleast 2 months i would be more swayed to 4 to 6 months to be honest. Befor the reclamation. for the reason that as some one had said, players will come back and leave.

now i also think its fair that if one of us wants to sign up to have there plot reclaimed in trade for a token that sounds fair. some of us are happy with what we have. would like bigger but not interested in the fighting to get it. I beleave that would put a hole new spin on things for some players if they have to loose something and risk getting a 25x25 in the prosess.

also understand that alot of use that play are good people and if u where to say send me a tell and say "hey i really want this plot it is the one i had on unity and its just kinda sentamental to me" i would back off and let u have it in a instant. i know some may lie about being from unity but if thats what they are willing to stoop to so be it.

i dont like the novians from the reclimations i think if the plot is being taken because the owner has faild to show for x amount of time. then all the resorsece should go to some sort of npc tazzoon building dep. or something, and should be sold as plain jane peaces of turf.

anouther thing i would like to see and i dont know if it is posible is that if u have a acount and u let it expire that u loose the plot after say 1 month of no activation. this would put a stop to players buying plots with real money persay, because there main toon just has oodles of cash laying around. and then jsut cxling the acount they jsut started on the side efectivly leting them buy a plot with RL cash. if u want two plots have two accounts running.

And last but not in any way least, any unity player is welcome to visit grp or hang out with me. in fact i know each and every one of the players i talk to wouldnt even care where u are from or if u have ever played. in our lil grp of players whin yr with us yr family no matter who or what u are. but on the other hand dont expect hand outs because u are from unity!
expect them because anyone is welcome to join us and is always helped till they think it is there god given right.

[awdz]

I'm sorry, I just don't get why anyone is annoyed at the idea of Unity folks getting tokens for plots. Right now, you cannot upgrade because plots are unavailable. So what if they get tokens and some of the nicer plots? At least plot reclamation will be activated and you will have the chance to get a nicer plot in a little bit - that is still more than you have now!

Maybe it's just me, but how does it sound to hear complaints about having to wait a little longer to upgrade a plot when Unity folks have not only not been able to access their plots but lost their entire characters for so long?

[Frith-Rae]

actually now that I think about it...

I think its the very real chance/possibility that enough plots will be reclaimed on Chaos/Order (or more specfiically on Chaos if that's where they are totally out) that there WILL BE Enough for everyone who wants one.

Maybe not a guild site - but my guild (all dragon) has lived with that from day one (being as there are what..2-3 dragon lair guild plots??). But even then there could be enough of a liquidation that everyone has one and there are some leftover..

I mean seriously - its been two years or so - there are CRAPloads of people who have lairs and plots that haven't played in that time.

And if that ends up being the case - problem solved.

Course we'll only know that will be the case if after evertyhing is ready to go Vi steps up and goes "there are more plots than people - everyone has the chance to get SOMETHING"

Plus getting the word out that Chaos is just "out" will maybe/hopefully encourage people to join up on Order and bring the population there up more - we certainly have room! And we don't have cooties!!

I mean if I was a dragon/hatchling and just read that there are no lairs available on Chaos whatsoever (I didn't know that but sorry it doesn't change my opinion on tokens) - I'd be moving my big draggie but over to Order for the chance of not only a lair but a better lair. There are semi-prime locations all over Order available even right now - in Chiconis and Dralk even .

But all we can hope for is the communication about the process and a willingness to listen tot he feedback (that hasn't always been displayed in the past - just a fake-apperance of listening) - and then to just out right tell us if there are enough freed areas on Chaos for everyone or not - then at least the EU players can make a decision on THAT knowledge as to where they'd like to build.

[Vaz]

People moving to Order only for plots/lairs, what a <sarcasm>joyous</sarcasm> thought...

[pevil2000]

i agree with Frith-Rae, theres no reason not to use the token system. They (unity players) lost everything and its time they got it back.
Personally i think that if the plot/lair that a unity player had is owned right now by a non-active account that they should automatically get that plot/lair here with no token given just novians so they can rebuild it.



I just came back to the game and yes i want a lair (120/120/144) i even found one but gave others the info, and did not get a finders fee. , because i have no coin.

I agree (I think my lair is one of those that would be reclaimed and I love the spot for its beauty, it is near no resources whatsoever, except 2 or 3 gold nodes when you get lucky with spawns).

I also agree with should get tokens OR coin but only equal to what the plot cost originally (if they are to be left for 'free' sale), or what it would now be worth (if we're going to go the auction route).

And I also agree that if we transfer our characters over to an existing chaos/order/blight account that owns a plot, we should not get any token back whatsoever (but if they go the coin route, give us the coin, we still always need coin!)

Anyone who wants to upgrade, well then they should give us fair warning of when the reclamations/auctions are going to start (at least a weeks notice of the date, if not more), and stick to it rigidly, giving us an exact time it will start (and convert it to GMT/other timezones as well for us, or at least link to a timezone converter!) to give all players maximum chance. That way anyone wanting to upgrade can sell off their old one and risk not being able to win one on the day, but at least have the chance. And if you can't afford to upgrade... well you're not going to be losing out, there could be thousands of spare plots/lairs but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

I have to say as well that I agree with Takora; my main that I'm waiting for, Pev, is only lvl 72. She's maxed crafting and only has 52 lairshaping. Now my next main goal on Unity was to get Ancient at 100, and also to finish my lair. I was actively working on the Ancient goal, and when I couldn't be bothered/was dying too much, working on my lair. I can't really see it taking me more than 3 - 6 months (depending on motivation and WoW addiction) to get to Ancient, but my lair... I could spend years on my lair, even once it was built.

On Unity my plans for my lair were to have it as a central crafting hall for my guildmates (and anyone really); the machines were going to be T5 for everyone to use, with all machines, and then for the guildmates I planned to have T1 storage chambers stuffed with every kind of resource a dragon could need, from T1 up to T5. The deal would be that members who needed the resources for a quick boost (say those doing RoP needing to hit the level to make phylacterys etc) could use them up, and gain the bonuses from the machines, provided they returned the resources at some point. So someone who wanted to craft for their limited hour playtime on an evening could do, and achieve a lot, then use their day off to repay the favour and farm the resources back to me. I also wanted to have a few libraries/halls/lairs that would be stuffed with any and every form/tech I found and didn't need (to complement the already overflowing guild plot on Felathien that the GM had) to save people having to try and find them themselves or buy them.

This would have kept me busy for months, if not years, topping up resources, finding new forms/techs and just generally helping with crafting of all kinds. Plus then it would have made it easier for me to level my Helian alt, which would encourage me to get her to 100 too! And I'm sure you can imagine that for someone with those kinda plans for their lair, its incredibly frustrating and annoying to see lairs that are owned and haven't even been started on, no plans or ANYTHING, especially when you recognise the name from a "goodbye" thread. At least if those that leave have built something up, the machines/connies/pbs can be used even after they're gone, but an empty hole/square in the world is no good to anyone!

Not being able to get a lair wouldn't stop me coming back, no way, but I know I would get bored very quickly. I'm unable to stay for long periods on my Chaos Helian atm, because it's just levelling. I can't build a lair (coz there are none to buy, even cheap rubbish ones!) and I can't just go for a fly because I'm not adult yet (and yes, I used to waste hours doing nothing in game but flying aimlessly around, not even anywhere in particular).

Wisperer - we need more people in this world like you, both Istaria and the real world! If you're on Chaos and I ever get my main back, I would do everything possible to help you to get a lair, no matter the size or shape of it, you deserve that!

[Goriax]

As far as I know, nobody at Vi has suggested using tokens this time around, so people are probably arguing over nothing.

Tokens have been used only once and that was for the merge when EVERYONE lost their plot. At that time, tokens insured that if you had a plot before the merge you'd have a plot after the merge. There were no tokens for the dragon lair auction. Everyone was bidding money and only money. Even then there were exploits -- some people bought a tiny plot a week before the merge and got their token. They used that token to get a huge plot after the merge, which they then sold making a nice profit at the expense of other players who just wanted a plot.

This isn't at all like the merge. Everyone has NOT lost their plot and all plot owners do not have access to tokens.

There's a good chance that there will NOT be a flood of Unity players onto the live servers. In fact I'd be surprised if there WERE a flood. Most likely we're arguing over nothing twice over.

If there DOES look to be a flood, I'd suggest doing plot reclamation first and then seeing how things looked. It's very likely that there will be plenty for everyone. If it appears that some prime plots will be in high demand I'd suggest doing a cash only auction but giving Unity players a cash reimbursement for any plot they had before.

[pevil2000]

^^^ also agreed. Nothing is concrete yet anyway so it really is a pointless argument until its announced. It's good to get the suggestions out there but we should at least keep the arguing/being touchy until its been announced that it will be unfair!

[LaughingOtter]

Now, after SEVERAL YEARS of hard work to get coin, you suggest that someone with a token, who had MAYBE a 25x25 plot on Unity be allowed to 'upgrade' to a 100x100 and outbid me just because of that!

That's not likely to happen, Tel. I expect that most of those 25x25 plots were unsold, just as they were on Order & Chaos. You're going to get beaten by people who had plots in Last Stand, Defender's Gate, Old Oaks, and Mithril's Anvil. Assuming, that is, that they don't spend their tokens on guild communities. Heck, if I had a 5-10g plot token, my goal would be nothing less than a guild community!

The Unity players who are still here and want to transfer aren't beginners. They're the long-term vets, just like you and Dru. They worked for what they had, just as much as you have done. They deserve a chance to get back what they lost.

I do like the idea that a token has to be worth at least the base price of a plot in order for a bid to count. That seems to be a reasonable requirement.

With all the abandoned plots and lairs on Chaos, I can't imagine that all the good ones will be snapped up by the folks from Unity. However, let's suppose they are. That would mean we'd had an influx of hundreds and hundreds of Unity players. Bad for you, perhaps, but good for the game. They'd all be loyal, long-time players as well, just like you and I. How could helping them rebuild not be for the good of the game?

I think it's far more likely that the number of players moving will be fairly small. Even if all had tokens, they could only claim one property each, leaving all the others for the existing players. I think you should be more worried about some of your fellow Chaos citizens, especially the few who became rich through illicit means.