Some ingame issues to discuss

[Peaches]

At one point in time, the topic of item decay came up. Nothing was done over the course of time, but, thats then and its now that we are dealing with.

I firmly believe that we are in need of a form of item decay, but not decay in that of itself. But, I would suggest the following:

Instead of item decay, I would highly suggest that item degradation be put in. Have npcs set up for us to go to do repairs. Its a nice gold sink, and we can then keep our most favorite items. When the items are made, have them attune to the specific individual, this way, it will help create a bit of a player economy where those items will then be needed, as there would be no longer any hand me downs to pass on.

If its done otherwise, for example, it really takes a long time to get comps to make, for example, cargo gear, armor, etc. Sure, the comps can be bought from the vielo, but at a high price. Camping out mobs is not my idea of a fun time either, and yes, I play other games where that happens, and its so totally unfun. So, what are your thoughts on this matter?

Thanks!

[GalemThawn]

When the items are made, have them attune to the specific individual, this way, it will help create a bit of a player economy where those items will then be needed, as there would be no longer any hand me downs to pass on.

I'm not certain what you are saying here, but if crafted items are attuned, then how is anyone supposed to get better armor without being an Outfitter or Armorer themselves? How can you get a better weapon without being a Blacksmith or Weaponsmith? Need a tripple teched Fine Mithril Maul? You better have Expert Weaponsmith under your belt.

[tjl]

I think attuned on equip was what Peaches meant.

[Peaches]

ya, sorry for that, meant attuning on equipping.

[Peaches]

Galem, other players or yourself, can make the items you need.

[GalemThawn]

Gotcha. Attuned on equip makes sense. I thought you meant attuned at the time of crafting.

[Sigi]

Needing a gold sink? LOL I'm more in need of gold than of the sink. Not everybody in game is rich! I don't like this kind of suggestions, the people with a lot of money probably don't care, they can afford it anyway but it will be a pita for the "poor" ones.

[walkerglassmire]

At one point in time, the topic of item decay came up. Nothing was done over the course of time, but, thats then and its now that we are dealing with.

I firmly believe that we are in need of a form of item decay, but not decay in that of itself. But, I would suggest the following:

I'm sure I made similar comments before, but that was then, this is now.

Instead of item decay, I would highly suggest that item degradation be put in. Have npcs set up for us to go to do repairs. Its a nice gold sink, and we can then keep our most favorite items.

Cept a lot of us don't have gold, or a lot of silver for that matter. Coupled with, if it is purely time based, would be a really unhappy thing to leave for a month (sick, work, long vacation, etc) come back and find all your gear degraded to uselessness, and no way to go get coin to fix things. Even slightly changing and allowing players to craft "repair kits" you either still have the lack of coin problem, can't find someone to make the ones you need, or, you still have gifting, making it simply a tedious exercise that changes nothing.

When the items are made, have them attune to the specific individual, this way, it will help create a bit of a player economy where those items will then be needed, as there would be no longer any hand me downs to pass on.

Personally, I REALLY like to be able to hand my old scales down to young hatchies. Lets me see something I spent (a lot of times) a long time, with a lot of hard work both myself and friends, to make; something I've bleed in, smashing my enemies; covered in dust and slag and resigoo crafting my tail off; lets me see all that heart and soul adorn another young hatchling, starting their life, ready to follow the dragon path. To see them hand those scales down again to the new hachies they meet. The thing I hate the most is to see that much work simply go into a hoard. Ignoring all the wasted tech bits, is simpler to churn out base scales and hoard those.

All this rambling aside, I really don't think this would help the economy in the long run. Would simply make things more difficult for new players, and "not really effect" older players, and turn the game into a coin churn. And there are other games for that.

Though, only my 2 coppers. Will go back to digging my lair now.

[Tcei]

Agreed, I dont have the coin, nor do I make the income to compensate for item degration, while I do kinda like the idea of attune on equip as that may help the player economy somewhat, then again I tend to sell the scales I out grow so it may not... Unfortunately creating a gold sink w/o an effecient way to build up money will only hurt more in the end. Heck I've played Hz for a 1 1/2-2 years now and I've yet to make a full gold!

[LOVWYRM]

I agree to what Sigi and walkerglassmire have stated.

[velveeta]

Personally, I REALLY like to be able to hand my old scales down to young hatchies. Lets me see something I spent (a lot of times) a long time, with a lot of hard work both myself and friends, to make; something I've bleed in, smashing my enemies; covered in dust and slag and resigoo crafting my tail off; lets me see all that heart and soul adorn another young hatchling, starting their life, ready to follow the dragon path. To see them hand those scales down again to the new hachies they meet. The thing I hate the most is to see that much work simply go into a hoard. Ignoring all the wasted tech bits, is simpler to churn out base scales and hoard those.

All this rambling aside, I really don't think this would help the economy in the long run. Would simply make things more difficult for new players, and "not really effect" older players, and turn the game into a coin churn. And there are other games for that.

Though, only my 2 coppers. Will go back to digging my lair now.

i agree. hand me downs got me to the level of royalty i am now.....
being able to hand out old but still useable equipment is one of the things i love about this game....

[Greenclaw1]

At one point in time, the topic of item decay came up. Nothing was done over the course of time, but, thats then and its now that we are dealing with.

I firmly believe that we are in need of a form of item decay, but not decay in that of itself. But, I would suggest the following:

Instead of item decay, I would highly suggest that item degradation be put in. Have npcs set up for us to go to do repairs. Its a nice gold sink, and we can then keep our most favorite items. When the items are made, have them attune to the specific individual, this way, it will help create a bit of a player economy where those items will then be needed, as there would be no longer any hand me downs to pass on.

If its done otherwise, for example, it really takes a long time to get comps to make, for example, cargo gear, armor, etc. Sure, the comps can be bought from the vielo, but at a high price. Camping out mobs is not my idea of a fun time either, and yes, I play other games where that happens, and its so totally unfun. So, what are your thoughts on this matter?

Thanks!

I agree. For a game that depends so heavily on player crafted items it works well for there to be a decay system. The old SWG before the NGE is proof of that.

[Steelclaw]

While I agree that there should be something to spend coin on, I'm not convinced that equipment decay is the answer -- at least not yet. Let's see how the confectioner revamp works out. (Remember, one of the changes is that a death point lasts for 24h instead of 8.) I'd rather see new consumable items, rather than making non-consumable ones consumable.

Oh, as an aside, keep in mind that you can not place an attuned item in storage. It can only be on the attuned character or in its vault.

[GalemThawn]

...(Remember, one of the changes is that a death point lasts for 24h instead of 8.)

Can't keep it in mind when I didn't know it. Where did you get that information from?

[Goriax]

You've got players with a wide range of money. Some players have a few silver, some many gold. If you have a gold sink big enough for the rich players to even notice it's large enough to bankrupt the poorer players.

In order to have a gold sink, you need the primary source of gold to be somewhat reliable and NOT pseudo-exploit (farming anyone?) unless you want to say that everyone is EXPECTED to behave that way. It kind of worked in EQ2 (when you died your equipment took wear and the higher your level the more it cost to fix up) where adventuring income was somewhat predictable and everything was carefully tuned. I think WoW does something similar. That's not the case here. Depending on what you're doing your income can vary widely.

In any case, such a sink MUST be carefully tuned to income available to players WITHOUT doing shady things which they don't really want to encourage.

[Teto Frum]

A coin sink could be a good idea or bad idea, im not sure i felt there was an abundance of coin while i grew up in istaria, i think any coin sink on low lvls will drive new players away. Most posting on this thread are maxed characters looking for something to spend on. I remember being very broke most of time in Istaria if you just play and dont spend days trying to generate cash. Now like most high lvls there no end to the coin i generate , but thats mainly becase the only xperince i can get is hunting monsters that drop T6 comps that sell high topawnies , and save them for what they have no real purpose at this time.

If we want a high lvl coin sink lets get a sixth tier for crafting finished across all schools. Im not against armour depreciation , though not really in favour at this time either, but weapon depreciation would put melee toons at minor disadvantage.

[Kala]

Instead of item decay, I would highly suggest that item degradation be put in.

I'm not sure what difference you mean to have between decay and degredation.

From dictionary.com:

decay: 6. a gradual falling into an inferior condition; progressive decline
degrade: 7. to become degraded; weaken or worsen; deteriorate

Have npcs set up for us to go to do repairs. Its a nice gold sink, and we can then keep our most favorite items. When the items are made, have them attune to the specific individual, this way, it will help create a bit of a player economy where those items will then be needed, as there would be no longer any hand me downs to pass on.

Gold sinks: We already have Nadia and the Vielo. We have portal fees. Why not increase portal fees while you're at it? I, for one, do NOT want to spend money to fix gear that I spent hours working on. Especially not when I need my money to fund other things...like construction work that I don't have time to get around to.

Attunement: Possibly, though I dislike what changing everything to "Bind on Equip" has done in Vanguard. I can't find anything cheap, although "cheap" changed due to the server merge, as well. I see very little reason to make everything attuned on equip.

If its done otherwise, for example, it really takes a long time to get comps to make, for example, cargo gear, armor, etc. Sure, the comps can be bought from the vielo, but at a high price. Camping out mobs is not my idea of a fun time either, and yes, I play other games where that happens, and its so totally unfun. So, what are your thoughts on this matter?

I'm not sure what you meant by this. You want to attune gear, make it so we have to repair it all the time, but acknowledge that it's not fun to get the gear made in the first place? I'm sorry if I misunderstand, but that's how this reads to me.

[Shian]

I am against most of these ideas in here. I have seen them in other games and they are not fun.

I hear SWG being used as an example, but for those who are not in the NGE era, decay was removed. It was considered too much of a bother to go get a new set of armor every three days and I'm honestly very glad it's gone.

In it's place, there are a TON of things that are No-trade, biolinked, unique and all sorts of ridiculous tags so that you can only keep them on your person or in your bank. and it's VERY ANNOYING as you have a ton of room in your house.... but nothing with these tags can go in it.

• Decay
  Decay? No way. Decay is nothing but a PITA. Nothing like having your armor or weapon break at a critical moment. The player's solution was to just carry around a cart of extra clothes/armor/weapons etc.in case such a thing happens. Are you really wanting to cart around a full set of teched armor, weapons, jewelry etc just in case they break?
  
  Maybe when the game is coming out you can put such a feature in, but that is a very difficult pill to swallow when you go from not worrying about it to all of a sudden, it's in the game and threatens to eat all of the best gear you spent years accquiring.
  
• Attune on equip
  No. I love the fact that I have a set of scales that has been handed down for three generations. These are my level 40 sets though. There are not enough of the higher tiered ones to do hand-me-downs.
  
  In addition, the comps for the Tier 5 scales are so difficult to get that there are five dragons in my guild passing around a set of mining scales while they try to get enough comps for thier own set.
  
  If these were attuned, absolutley no one except those that have the set would be strong enough to farm for comps.
  
  Would someone mind farming 40 veteran ghost vapors for me? I don't have the level 80 scales so die rather quickly. No? Okay then. Keep that attuning garbage to yourself then. I can borrow a set and farm them myself.
  
• Gold sinks
  
  Is this really neccessary? With portal fees, vault upgrades, and other things I spend my extra coin on rare comps when I get tired of looking for them. I rarely have coin on me but I somehow have enough that I don't really worry about going to go look for such things.
  
  Is there someone running around with a lot of gold that is making this sort of thing unbalanced, because frankly I'm not seeing it. There really is no need for money in this game, so many players don't concern themselves with having it. It's lack of enconomy is quite the odd phenomenom.
  

[Kala]

Gold sinks

Is this really neccessary? With portal fees, vault upgrades, and other things I spend my extra coin on rare comps when I get tired of looking for them. I rarely have coin on me but I somehow have enough that I don't really worry about going to go look for such things.

Is there someone running around with a lot of gold that is making this sort of thing unbalanced, because frankly I'm not seeing it. There really is no need for money in this game, so many players don't concern themselves with having it. It's lack of enconomy is quite the odd phenomenom.

Completely forgot about the vault upgrades as a gold sink. Doing the original 1-7 was bad enough (on two characters, even!). I haven't bothered with the new ones since all they upgrade is bulk and I'm not about to splurge my hard-earned coin on bulk there when I could be getting my silos built.

From what I know (rumor, hearsay, some admittance), there are very few people with enough gold that this is an issue. I consider myself about average in terms of wallet-size. I'm neither filthy, stinking rich nor do I need to fret about every silver I spend.

I still balk at unnecessary cash sinks like this though. I think paying for the vault upgrades are too much. I can afford to buy several things from Nadia, but I still cringe at the thought. I can even buy Vielo forms if I need them, but I won't.

Right now, I'm worried about how much cash I'm going to need after reclamation to upgrade my plot. There's a significant cash sink right there. :/

[awdz]

In my opinion, gold sinks should be for conveniences, not items necessary to leveling.

For example, armor and weapons are needed to battle, therefore they are less suitable for a gold sink. Same for tools and crafting gear.
Recalling with a disk and porting with a disk would be a convenience, since you can recall/run back & reload; therefore those would be more suitable as a gold sink.

Ambrosia? Clearly a convenience. Reaping potions? Arguable both ways. Food? Let's see how the confectioner revamp works.

Personally, I'm still saving up for vault IX, so I'm not gung ho about having to spend any extra coin these days.