Delta 134

[Kala]

We could also make cleaning mushrooms involve processing them one at a time using a very small brush, or make cheesecakes require a tinkerer-made springform pan and a clay or glass roasting pan for a water bath...

Seriously, if I remember correctly the sliced vanilla beans use a different machine from the herbs & spices, so they have to be on a different form. As for the lemon zest, that's probably just a matter of keeping all the types of processed lemon on a single form.

Ahh... I didn't realize they had to be on the same form for that reason.

As for the lemon zest, some people do refer to it as a spice. That may be incorrect of them, but they do it all the same. (Not me, lemon zest is WAY too fancy for my RL cooking skills.)

I'm glad, though, that at least the lemon zest and vanilla got people to start posting in the thread again...I was worried I scared everyone off! ;p

[Kala]

9. One of the T1 foods in Beginner Basic Appetizers is potato soup. This is made with sliced potatoes and water. This sounds completely unappetizing as soup. Could you perhaps change it to boiled potatoes? Still unappetizing, but hopefully it sounds a little more edible. (I won't ask to kick it up a tier, bam, because I can see that the T1 and T2 items are kept to about the same numbers on the forms.)

[Velea]

Ok, I'll bite... What's the difference between boiling the potatoes... which would be just slicing the potatoes and putting them in water for a while...and then adding more water to call it soup.

And.... slicing the potatoes and putting them in water, and calling it soup.

[Kala]

Some days I wish I could save stuff as drafts here...

10. This isn't a Delta 134 issue, but I haven't seen it mentioned. Pear trees are a little graphically messed up. They have 3 dark green planes going through them.




11. I just ran by a plant named "Cranberry Bush 1" around 15701, 14980.

[Kala]

Ok, I'll bite... What's the difference between boiling the potatoes... which would be just slicing the potatoes and putting them in water for a while...and then adding more water to call it soup.

And.... slicing the potatoes and putting them in water, and calling it soup.

Not having ever boiled potatoes or made soup with them (chowder yes, soup no), my guess is that you could boil the potatoes whole. Either way, it still sounds very unappetizing. Also, with boiled potatoes, you don't have a bunch of water left over. ...at least not for eating.

[Kala]

12. Liquid bulk: water - bulk 3, milk - 2, vinegar - 4, lemon juice - 4, olive oil - 10, honey - 10.

Are those numbers intentional? Is lemon juice really twice as hard to carry around as milk? I'm not trying to be picky; it was just very surprising to turn 4 bulk of lemons into 4 bulk of lemon juice. (2:1 for those who haven't seen the recipe)

13. Beginner Advanced Desserts: Vanilla Pudding. I realize that with heavy cream and sugar it's going to be hard to fit one more ingredient in, but... Shouldn't vanilla pudding be made with, well....vanilla?

14. Based on the sheer number of processed items makable right now (close to 150, I believe), I'd really like to see a "Kiss the Cook" apron. Is that doable?

[tramsan]

Ok, I'll bite... What's the difference between boiling the potatoes... which would be just slicing the potatoes and putting them in water for a while...and then adding more water to call it soup.

And.... slicing the potatoes and putting them in water, and calling it soup.

Boiled potatoes is part of a dish, it is not a dish in and of itself. Likewise, potatoes in water isn't really potato soup, it's just potatoes in water. Add some onions, paprika, broth, salt and pepper, and now you can call it soup. If you have a potato soup consisting of nothing but potatoes and water, you might as well add a new main dish: "Bread & Water"

My suggestion is to either change the name to "boiled potatoes", which isn't very appetizing either, or swap water for butter and call it to "fried potatoes", which is really more of a side. A third option that I personally find a bit interesting is borrowed from the British kitchen. Again, swap water for butter, but this time call it "fried potato peels". Now here's a proper appetizer, and contrary to what it might seem, quite tasty. (What happens to the rest of the sliced potato, well... That's best left for the imagination.)


Another issue:
With, as Kala said, the sheer number of items available, and more to come, it would be very nice if there could be something indicating the tier of the final product in the name. I can foresee a nightmare browsing through a tavern keep with all different tiers of food, trying to find those for your tier... Perhaps something like "Tier 2 Side: Baked Potato"

[AmonGwareth]

You could use the tier filter? The foods are keyworded so they'll work with it.

As far as the ingredients of foods and stuff, some sacrifices to realism were made for game balance and so that all foods at all tiers were interesting (not just the upper tiered ones). Trust me, if we made every food use realistic ingredients and preparation techniques confectioner would be 500 times worse.

I believe the upper tier foods will be more satisfactory for those who crave more realism as there were more ingredient slots to work with (Tier 5 has 6 slots).

[Kala]

As far as the ingredients of foods and stuff, some sacrifices to realism were made for game balance and so that all foods at all tiers were interesting (not just the upper tiered ones). Trust me, if we made every food use realistic ingredients and preparation techniques confectioner would be 500 times worse.

Trust me, I'm NOT asking to have it be any more complex than it already is...that's the last thing I want to have happen to conf. As it stands, I'm worried I'll be spending 70% of my time in game keeping silos stocked and the other 30% making food. I'm just commenting on things I think may need to be changed/fixed.

I have problems suspending my disbelief and believing that a dish of boiled potatoes and water is going to be interesting and yummy, or that vanilla pudding without vanilla is really vanilla pudding. I understand that these are T1 dishes and are limited to two ingredients. I'm not asking for the tier to change, or for you guys to make either confectioner or just that dish more complex. I'm only suggesting to either substitute ingredients or rename the dish for things that seem bad or just plain wrong.

Maybe substitute milk for water in the soup and rename the vanilla pudding to, well, pudding? If you absolutely, positively don't want to change it, that's fine, too. I don't expect every suggestion I make (or even most) to be solid gold.

I should also say that I really do appreciate the effort you're putting into this. And, as tramsan just pointed out to me, you're probably getting to the point where you're sick of looking at it. I'm not trying to make things more difficult for you, I swear!

[Kala]

15. Blackberries still need a harvest knife for harvesting. Mentioned because all the other berries seem to have been bucketized.

[Velea]

While I can't speak for Amon and the other developers on the team, I am going to say that I feel at this point unless something is an actual "it does not work" bug, then it needs to be left alone. As Amon has said a number of times, sometimes reality must be suspended for game balance. While it does not take long to go in and change a food name, or a particular ingredient, if that was done with every single thing that someone felt was "not realistic" through this process, the confectioner revamp would honestly have taken weeks more than it already has. There comes a point in time when we have to say "this works, it's time to move on with something else." It will by no means be perfect in anyone's eyes.

Kala, please understand that I'm not criticizing your attention to detail. We appreciate it and need it. All I am saying is that there are some details that are minor enough to let go of. Don't think that when one of us says "suspend reality" we are saying "stop pointing out these sorts of issues", in other words. But do accept that when someone answers "suspend reality in this case", it means for whatever game balance reason, reality does need to be suspended.

[AmonGwareth]

15. Blackberries still need a harvest knife for harvesting. Mentioned because all the other berries seem to have been bucketized.

got it! Thanks

[Kala]

Kala, please understand that I'm not criticizing your attention to detail. We appreciate it and need it. All I am saying is that there are some details that are minor enough to let go of. Don't think that when one of us says "suspend reality" we are saying "stop pointing out these sorts of issues", in other words. But do accept that when someone answers "suspend reality in this case", it means for whatever game balance reason, reality does need to be suspended.

Gotcha. I'll try to minimize the comments about which ingredients are used. I'm well-aware I can be a little, hmm, too "detail-oriented" at times.

After I get done going through what recipes I can on Blight (3 more formulas to go for foods, who knows how many left for the processed stuff...I miss my silos!), I was planning on writing my overall thoughts on the conf changes so far, if that's ok?

[AmonGwareth]

Kala, we welcome your thoughts and findings. Please post everything you find and think about the change.

[gopher65]

As far as the ingredients of foods and stuff, some sacrifices to realism were made for game balance and so that all foods at all tiers were interesting (not just the upper tiered ones). Trust me, if we made every food use realistic ingredients and preparation techniques confectioner would be 500 times worse.

Hehehehehe. Oh yeah. Some things take freaking forever to make 0_0.