put the old DP system back

[Shur]

yeah, it looks like the new DP system is working.

guess what else? the new food is garbage. currently only level-20 food is available, and it removes a whole 4 minutes when used in a tavern. oh, guess what else? it links. that's right, use one of the new foods and it sets the rest on recycle.

oh, and what's more, talking to a few people who have confectioner alts, seems that the higher-tier foods take long enough to make that it's faster to just eat the old food!!

well, you succeeded at one thing: confectioner class is suddenly the most important in the game. thanks.

[Kala]

Shur, it does take a while to get the new foods made. Unfortunately, it also takes a while to stock up on stuff. Not to mention the...erm, lengthy amount of time it takes to fix anything.

I've already posted things I feel need to be changed to help make confectioner enjoyable and useful, but I'm just one voice among many. The things that will best help now, and not be seen as hasty, overreacting commentary, is to take a breath, wait a bit, then calmly make your argument as to what needs to be changed. If you think it's not fun, try to say why.

Seranthor made a good comment a few years back... Confs have been asking for change and needing change for a very long time now. It wasn't our decision to make DPs the way they are now. Frankly, I would have been satisfied if they just gave us expert forms. Then again, I'm usually easy to please.

[Shian]

According to that screenie though, looks like your stats have not been affected at all. Who cares how many DPs you have or how long it takes for them to fade if they are not altering your ability to play the game? Looks like you have more than enough raw stats to still go hunting.

[Custard]

You've known these changes were coming, it's been advertised and discussed fairly heavily for a long time.
You should also have been aware (by reading about the coming changes) of the effect it would have to the length of time it would take Death Points to wear off.
You are also the one who went out and got 11 Death Points.

Your Death Penalty has worn off and your stats have returned to their original values.
The Death Point timer has been increased, based upon your rating, but I don't believe any change was made to the Death Penalty timer, just the effect upon your stats for the duration of the Penalty.
So go out and enjoy your hunting again, but take a bit of care.

You've got a few choices about what to do from here... they might include:

• Learn how to hunt effectively to avoid getting killed so many times.

• Stop at maybe 3 or 4 Death Points and go do something else.

Confectioners have only become the most important class in the game to those who have trouble staying on four (or two) legs and don't know when to stop or change their behaviour.

It'd be a shame to leave the game after you've just learnt such a valuable lesson.

[Zexoin]

If you get 11 DPs during a ARoP run, then there's a problem with your tactic. I think I got one or two for my own, and most of our group couldn't rez.

I agree with Custard ; I couldn't have said it better.

[Sigi]

If you get 11 DPs during a ARoP run, then there's a problem with your tactic. I think I got one or two for my own, and most of our group couldn't rez.

I agree with Custard ; I couldn't have said it better.

I agree too.
Most deadpoints I get, I get because, against knowing better, I don't flee when I should

[gopher65]

errrm if 4 minutes are being removed then you are probably using the old foods, not the new ones. The old ones still work, but they are kind of pointless (hence the revamp).

[Vaz]

Mostly agreeing with Shian, Custard, Zexoin, and Sigi.

I'm glad Horizons has a less pathetic death penalty now. The old system was dissatisfying to me: If I make a stupid mistake and die, I ought to receive a proper punishment.

The problem with this is that on some occasions death is not the player's fault. Lag, whether clientside, serverside, or between the two, may be at fault. The wonky (to use kind terminology) spawn system may also be the culprit.

Although there was plenty of forewarning and information available about this new system, it doesn't seem too unreasonable for a person to request that their relatively large number of DP gathered prior to the patch be cleaned out. Thus, as was suggested in another thread, I recommend you politely ask for such action to be taken.

Quitting over a temporary situation - retracting your monetary support from a company that has an otherwise splendid nature and track record and a game that you otherwise enjoy and which needs every subscription it can retain to have a chance of survival - seems inordinate to me.

By the way...

...Vote with your feet on this game, and you vote with your feet on the perceived potential validity of all MMORPGs with playable dragons, all MMORPGs with extensive and valuable crafting, all MMORPGs with multiclassing, etcetera.

[Creme]

I'm glad Horizons has a less pathetic death penalty now. The old system was dissatisfying to me: If I make a stupid mistake and die, I ought to receive a proper punishment.

The problem with this is that on some occasions death is not the player's fault. Lag, whether clientside, serverside, or between the two, may be at fault. The wonky (to use kind terminology) spawn system may also be the culprit.

I'd concur with the views above.

I also think this is an excellent incentive for players to report issues such as combat lag, spawn positioning errors, etc. so that these things can get cleaned up.

As I've mentioned before, a death earned based on a players own actions/merits should have consequences.

A death earned due to gameplay issues should be a rare occurrence, and not a common one.

A thing to consider with the changes is perhaps a need to relog more often to alleviate any memory leak-type issues.

Another would be to identify areas that do generate lag where combat can/does occur.

Although there is a lot of unique scenery in game, data should be collected and reported on any areas that seem to generate lag.

Some signposts could be added to areas with dense mob activity, or high danger zones to advise players that those areas are being entered at their own risk, as it seems that players do go into areas far beyond their level/capabilities or attempt to level off mobs too far above their levels in an attempt to gain the "big exp".

To respond to Gopher's post:

Yesterday, very few of the new recipes had been produced and placed on the tavern in Bristugo.

Confectioners are still gearing up to be able to produce these foods, which involves gathering many different resources and loading silos, storehouses, etc.

It will take some time to get the "dunkin donuts" shops up and running...Think of it as a brand new restaurant/kitchen being installed and all the ingredients on order.

When I checked yesterday, there were only 3 T1 main dishes and 1 T4 main dish (as well as a few assorted sides/appetizers) on the bristugo tavern. I'm sure that this will improve, giving the confectioners time to stock up.

Also, as a suggestion, rather than criticizing the lack of foods, or intimating that they're being hoarded (mentioned in another thread), why not offer to help the current confectioners to gather the necessary resources so that they can get cooking sooner, rather than spending so much time gathering.

[GalemThawn]

... why not offer to help the current confectioners to gather the necessary resources so that they can get cooking sooner, rather than spending so much time gathering.

And since the Confectioner's will be selling the food, you might be able to charge a small amount for collecting/harvesting the items.

And then what do we have? oops, a slight charge that might kickstart a small economy.

[Galdethriel]

You're not the only one who has to deal with lotsa death points. I worked up 16 in the last few days through nothing more than sheer carelessness. (Other than 1 which I had two abortus suddenly spawn on me while I was trying to heal) XD

It's not the end of the world. The death penalty at that stage only lasts about an hour, and even before it fades you can still hunt; you just have to be far more careful. Try adapting your hunting style is the best thing I think, like Custard said. I'm learning to be more careful in my hunts too. :O

You know the kind of stuff required. Get to know your mobs and how much damage they will likely inflict. Buff yourself up appropriately and heal/flee earlier etc.

Though I'm certainly no expert in the not dying aspect of hunting. XD

Also true is that you should give the confectioners time to stock up on their foods. They can't just magically summon a silo full of high-tier food up the moment they need it, after all. XD These things do take time.

Oh and stop freaking out so much over this. It's a work in progress.

[Galdethriel]

... why not offer to help the current confectioners to gather the necessary resources so that they can get cooking sooner, rather than spending so much time gathering.

And since the Confectioner's will be selling the food, you might be able to charge a small amount for collecting/harvesting the items.

And then what do we have? oops, a slight charge that might kickstart a small economy.

I think that's a wonderful idea.

Sorry for the double-post. ^^

[Melanth]

i think the main problem hee is perhapse not that the system has changed- everyone likes to see the game improved- but more that dragons are now totally reliant on bipeds for alleviation from death points within a reasonable scale of time. This is a major embuggerance for lower level chars without access to tons of silver or those with poor RAM. Getting killed hunting is a part of the adventure level- there are times it just cant be avoided, particuarly in places like the Satyr isles which aso unfortunatly contain a lot of useful comps. whilst the confectioner/deathpoint change might be a good thing for Bipeds, Dragons have been left out in the cold yet again.

[Amecha]

I have to agree with the first few posts. This new DP system can work once you learn to use it. You're not kept from hunting with DPs, once you wait for the effects to wear off, you can go out hunting again. Perhaps a good just a good reality check, one where you're finally faced with the realization that "Whoa, I probably shouldn't take on something twice my size!" Smarter hunting and adventuring tactics is all it will take.

Eventually confectioners will put foods on the dragon consigners or pawnbrokers, then you won't have to buy from bipeds. As with all new changes and additions, it will take time to start really working with the system. I'm sure it will be changed and more options for dragons will be available soon, but you have to give it time.

[Alacor Vashnore]

Ok to start i feel yr pain on the lore side of the game but still u dont have to depend on a biped, you could just wait it out. as far as i know there hasnt been a change to the effect time so ..

secondly,

11 dp ..one hunt..wow umm might i suggest backing off a bit why dont u drop down a few lvls in what yr hunting and try a new stratagy. if yr just hunting with dragons with no buffs or biped made items like food and potions it will still be a bit more dificult. but 11 dp wow.

in comparison if u do work with bipeds things could be alot dif. in our hunting grp we have a mage a hlr and a dragon aka meat sheild with claws. none of us are over 50 and we have started killing valkors guards after we are warmed up. which makes me support the new system i mean if we are crasy enough to fight stuff that strong and we die we should feel it.

granted a dragon with omg str and dex for there lvl with a nice lil leadership buff might be a lil unfair to the mobs

[Amecha]

Confectioners are finally getting appreciated. Remember when Zymosis was out, and bipeds had to rely on dragons? Time wise? It will get faster as they learn how to make new food. You're so against bipeds and having to get food from them? Just an observation... you have a specific "Naka" tab in your "Friends" list, so why not buy from them?

[Galdethriel]

Just an observation... you have a specific "Naka" tab in your "Friends" list, so why not buy from them?

Amecha's right, so I second that. Besides, why does your buying from bipeds have to be In-Character? You could just tell the confectioner you're there Out of Character and have no detrimental effects on your roleplay, for as far as roleplay is concerned, your dragon was never there.



...Think of it in terms of players helping players. I think the confectioner revamp and the new need for their foods will help strengthen the bonds between players and Istaria's community. Although, agreed, I was annoyed at first too. Out of the roleplay, there is no real distinction between biped players and dragon players. So OOC, at least, you have no arguement against going to a biped player for some food.

[Oakleif]

Just find a dragon player who has a confectioner alt, convince yourself that the alt is the slave/pet/vassal/kitchen-wench/whatever-suits-your-roleplay-ideals and buy a meal plan from the dragon that allows you periodic access to the naka chef. Neither dragon is burdened with the onerous task of cooking and cleaning, you get better quality food (though grabbing a deer on the fly makes a great snack) with a wider variety of flavors, and you haven't personally dealt with anyone beneath you.

*sigh* Such drama over such a little sticking point.

Personally, I'm glad I chose to play a dragon that thinks before he casts, rather than one that bites before thinking. To each his own though.

[Galdethriel]

*sigh* Such drama over such a little sticking point.

Yeah. XD Don't worry, he's just having a little tantrum. Happens to us all at some point I guess.

whilst the confectioner/deathpoint change might be a good thing for Bipeds, Dragons have been left out in the cold yet again.

I can agree with that to an extent, because dragons are quite underpowered compared to the multiclassed bipeds with more skills. However I hear dragons had a lot of love to begin with, and it's been said by a dev that things are on the table and being considered for dragons.

For now at least, we should give the new systems a try. Who knows? It could be great for Istaria's economy and the bonds between biped and dragon communities. We are one empire, after all.

Like Iunctus Viribus, the guild I'm in, so rightly states:

"The elements, alone, are a marvel to behold: this is a sure fact. Only together though, in harmony and unison, can their true beauty and wonder be seen."

(Man I love that quote )

Dragons can do things bipeds can't; bipeds can do things dragons can't. But they can do fudge near anything when allied. *super lame*

In short, stop whinging like a ninny. Are you a Lunus or aren't you? XDDDD

[Pharcellus]

I can agree with that to an extent, because dragons are quite underpowered compared to the multiclassed bipeds with more skills. However I hear dragons had a lot of love to begin with, and it's been said by a dev that things are on the table and being considered for dragons.

Then you have "heard" wrong. It is a VERY common misconception that Dragons got lots of "lovin" to begin with. They started out a mostly broken and woefully incomplete race/class, and it took two years for them to even remotely approach completion. It had nothing to do with "love", but "being finished". That said, the same thing is now happening with Confectioners. They've been broken for four years, and are now getting finished, NOT "lovin". To clarify how I am using the term, "lovin" is polish after completion. Dragon cargo disks are "lovin". Lairs, RoP, and ARoP are "finishin".

I get the occasional death point when I hunt, though I mostly hunt Elnath for comps. I have crappy scales with mostly T3 techs, I gave away all my good crystals and stuff before I left (got a few back from friends and guildies, though), and I know Elnath VERY **** WELL. So, usually, when I die, I did something particularly dumb, though a lot of the time, I am testing myself. I want to see what I can handle. Usually, I find out. Yeah, a 28-hour DP would be annoying, but what is more annoying to me is having to go and beg off a biped everytime I log in or die and get gifts and buffs. Sometimes, I wait for hours, or just have to fight lesser foes until a guildie gets on that can toss me some buffs. Yes, Gifts make a HUGE difference in combat efficiency and survivability. Anyway, that's where the DP timer issue is in relation to other issues to me. It doesn't really keep me from doing much, and the new food stuff, once it gets settled and adjusted, should do fine to mitigate it.

I don't care much for the "Dragon Chef" class idea. Dragons don't prepare food like bipeds, and making a class to do it just kinda rubs my scales the wrong way. It has been suggested that we feed on our kills to remove a minute or two off of the DP timer, but that even starts feeling a little silly after a while. Yeah, I have a big stomach (and Ebonfyre could eat the entire town of Aughendell before he got gorged, fat Luney that he is ), but eating EVERY kill would be a bit much.

I think, if anything, what Dragons should be able to do is eat kills to up an "eat meter". The more full you are, you get a faster DP recovery time divisor. As time goes on, the "eat meter" goes down, and so does the DP recovery time rate. Biped food actually will still work the same way as it does now, to reduce the DP time in blocks, though it will have little effect by itself on the "eat meter" (it's like Chinese... you're hungry again a half-hour later ).

Dragons can do things bipeds can't; bipeds can do things dragons can't. But they can do fudge near anything when allied. *super lame*

Well, if you ignore Lunus lore, that is true. It's hard for a Lunus RPer to really get into that "working with bipeds" thing. I'm Helian, so I don't have that problem (well, I have the opposite problem.. working with Lunus ), but we all manage somehow.

As for the dependency argument, what does a biped have specific need of a Dragon in their normal day-to-day operations? I don't think there is a single thing out there that a biped needs which only a Dragon can make or gather (could be gather with the new Confectioner stuff; don't know for sure since I haven't seen it yet). Then turn the question around. Compare the answers. If you have parity, then, well, you have parity. If you don't, then you don't. If that is the way they WANT it to be, then OK. They need to just out and say it and be done with it. Then we can make educated choices about the roles we play and, if need be, the game we play.