put the old DP system back

[gopher65]

They've been broken for four years, and are now getting finished, NOT "lovin". To clarify how I am using the term, "lovin" is polish after completion. Dragon cargo disks are "lovin". Lairs, RoP, and ARoP are "finishin".

Yup. There were a lot of broken classes, and there still are (KNOC!). But bipeds could bypass the more broken classes and still be perfectly functional, which dragons couldn't. So because of that it was of greater importance to finish the rest of the Dragon class first. Just like Pharcellus says, it wasn't "lovin", it was just a matter of finishing the one adventure and 2 craft classes that a Dragon has access to.

Yes, Gifts make a HUGE difference in combat efficiency and survivability.

Yeah. Gifts, enhances, and potions all come from bipeds. And I've yet to run into a dragon who turned down free hoard. Why is food any different? Food is far less important in the grand scheme of things than Alacrity is.

So I can't understand what the big deal is. All that people need to do is slightly adjust their roleplaying styles. They don't even need to change their characters.

[Pharcellus]

Yeah. Gifts, enhances, and potions all come from bipeds. And I've yet to run into a dragon who turned down free hoard. Why is food any different? Food is far less important in the grand scheme of things than Alacrity is.

*raises wing* I've turned down free hoard. I usually have a reason to do it, but I give away far more than I am given. I am well over max hoard cap, so much above maintenance level I usually toss to a guildie or a hatchie.

On the other hand, I'm not accustomed to folks offering free hoard, since I run into few other than Dragons out hunting or socializing, and most bipeds are saving it for their Dragon alts.

So I can't understand what the big deal is. All that people need to do is slightly adjust their roleplaying styles. They don't even need to change their characters.

Yeah, even with my "pull experiments", relearning what I can and cannot handle, I rarely collected more than one DP per day, on average. Now, I don't do ED much, but even still, it is not tough to learn the spawn and keep from getting jumped or overpulling.

One place this WILL be an issue is with big events, if we ever see them again. Most everyone gets a cubic tail load of DPs during those things. Just nature of the beast.

[Galdethriel]

Then you have "heard" wrong. It is a VERY common misconception that Dragons got lots of "lovin" to begin with.

Hey, I only joined last year, so I can only know what I've been told. :P You didn't have to quote like that either. Read aloud that'd sound very sarky. >.>

I'm not stupid. Promise. XD

Dragons can do things bipeds can't; bipeds can do things dragons can't. But they can do fudge near anything when allied. *super lame*

Well, if you ignore Lunus lore, that is true. It's hard for a Lunus RPer to really get into that "working with bipeds" thing. I'm Helian, so I don't have that problem (well, I have the opposite problem.. working with Lunus ), but we all manage somehow.

No no, even with Lunus it's true. Just Lunus players generally don't want to work with bipeds, hence their inability to do some things others can. Unless the bipeds were like their slaves or something.

I think, if anything, what Dragons should be able to do is eat kills to up an "eat meter". The more full you are, you get a faster DP recovery time divisor. As time goes on, the "eat meter" goes down, and so does the DP recovery time rate. Biped food actually will still work the same way as it does now, to reduce the DP time in blocks, though it will have little effect by itself on the "eat meter"

That's a good idea.

[Pharcellus]

Hey, I only joined last year, so I can only know what I've been told. :P You didn't have to quote like that either. Read aloud that'd sound very sarky. >.>

I'm not stupid. Promise. XD

Well, there's a bevy of history in this forum about what happened for most of the last 3 years. Might want to familiarize yourself with it (assuming there is some of it left after the "censors" got done with it, anyway). It will paint a really accurate picture of what was going on back then.

I'm sorry if you took it that way. I tend to call things as I see them, which often tends to make it sound harsher than it really is. Of course, there are times when I am snarky. I make no apologies for it other than just the basic "don't take it personally" disclaimer.

..and I would never consider you stupid on first encounter. Misinformed, probably. Ignorant, maybe, but not stupid. Hence, my post was about informing. You'll note nowhere did I characterize you for your view, just pointed out that the view was an incorrect one, and why, is all.

No no, even with Lunus it's true. Just Lunus players generally don't want to work with bipeds, hence their inability to do some things others can. Unless the bipeds were like their slaves or something.

Well, this is an impersonal MMORPG, and you're not too likely to find lots of players willing to turn themselves into RP "slaves" without some kind of compensation, either IC or OOC. I have known a few, but they are rare individuals.

[gopher65]

Well, there's a bevy of history in this forum about what happened for most of the last 3 years. Might want to familiarize yourself with it (assuming there is some of it left after the "censors" got done with it, anyway). It will paint a really accurate picture of what was going on back then.

Yeah, lots of posts got deleted. Lots and lots and lots of posts. It's too bad really. Some of the old threads that were full of great information got gutted. Now they are just one side of a conversation (4 posts in a row from one person, answering posts that are no longer there), or important posts with no context. It's sad.

And of course most of my highly entertaining posts *poofed*.

[Pharcellus]

Yeah, lots of posts got deleted. Lots and lots and lots of posts. It's too bad really. Some of the old threads that were full of great information got gutted. Now they are just one side of a conversation (4 posts in a row from one person, answering posts that are no longer there), or important posts with no context. It's sad.

Yeah, back when EI ran the place, my post count went down by a couple hundred, so I figure there was plenty of that going around.

And of course most of my highly entertaining posts *poofed*.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

[Lillyjo]

All i can say about the death points, is those who fight and run away live to fight another day.

Lillyjo

[Shur]

Confectioners are finally getting appreciated. Remember when Zymosis was out, and bipeds had to rely on dragons? Time wise? It will get faster as they learn how to make new food. You're so against bipeds and having to get food from them? Just an observation... you have a specific "Naka" tab in your "Friends" list, so why not buy from them?

because the manner in which i play the game and the manner in which i interact in chat are almost completely unrelated.

and no, i don't remember zymos, check the join date.

[Tcei]

I've not played this game for close to 3 months now (simply have no desire to log in), so I've no personal experience with the new dp system, I've never used confectioner made foods or even ambrosia. Heck the one time someone gifted me with potions I had to sell them for port money. As far as ped-buffs go I've only ever gotten them by run by buffers and on my RoP.

Rambling...Anyways, the new dp system seems a little too harsh for those who like to adventure to be worth playing any more. A much more reasonable yet still meaningful dp system would be to make each last 12 hrs IMHO. This way at least a player wouldnt be unable to play for 24+ hrs after just one dp. Granted they could always go craft, but there are actualy a few folks who play that dont like to craft. Im actually one of these types of people. I dont like to craft and normally in most games I never even bother with it. Unfortunately in this game it was the only way I could spend my limited time (somewhat) meaningfuly.

This leads me to the first problem I see with this new system and I think both peds and dragons have frequently, no matter how cautious and careful they may be. How many times have you gone hunting in an area sat there for 5-20 mins (and yes I've had to wait 20 mins in some places) for the system to finaly spawn something only to find that you're suddenly surrounded and dead before you can escape? Or have been killing in an area that looked safe (lets say its a place you've never hunted before) for a while and suddenly have the same happen, or the system finaly remember to spawn everything in that area just as you pulled? The vast majority of the dps I've ever gotten are a result of this. Rarely had I ever actualy died through fault of my own. Granted the devs may be willing to go in and take them off for you, but what happens on holidays/weekends or when ever these guys take a breaks? Suddenly now we've a backlog and you have to wait a couple of days for them to take off those dps, assuming they hadn't worn off already.

Then there's the roleplay and lore issue, which has been beaten to death already, simply put not all dragons (from an rp perspective) like bi-peds, many players show this by not hunting with, or excepting buffs, potions, ect from bi-peds. Lantua tends to be one of the easier going Lunus dragons, he'll hunt on rare occasions with a bi-ped if he finds sufficent benifits to himself. But he still wouldnt want to have to go and buy bi-ped food and sit in a ped tavern every time he got a dp or two. Besides that from what i've heared, keep in mind I dont know this first hand food takes off a rather pathetic amount of time from a dp, even in a tavern, and with a long coold down, which makes me see even less point in making the effort to buy and use this stuff when it'd still be just as effiecient to log off for several days. There's also the lore aspect which ties in with the rp for the same reasons. Granted some of this may be fixed later for dragons if the devs decide to give dragons a confectioner class/ablity/whatever and/or add in a tavern like lair chamber (which would be really neat imho).

Then there's cost. This im not too sure how big of an issue it'll be, given that most people seem to price their stuff fairly reasonably, other than now there's one school thats very very much in demand and useful, as well as has great money making potential. But due to the lack of any noticeable economy, there's no efficient way for non conf to make money to buy the food especially in the amounts needed to really make a noticeable difference on dps as they currently are. Case in point, I once had close to 200 t4 and 5 spells and forums given to me by a dragon who was leaving the game. Later I needed room in my vault so I put them up on the connie for half the price I saw others selling them figuring they'd sell quickly, unfortunately they didnt and in the end I ended up giving htem away for free, selling most for around 10c and destorying the rest.

Anyways just thought I'd add my 2 cp.

[Sigi]

Could someone please explain in clear and simple language the difference and the interaction between deathpoints and deathpennalty using the timers of the new system?

I think there's a lot of confusion and therefor anger, perhaps about nothing.

[awdz]

deathpoints are accrued each time you die, take a long long time to go away, one after the other

death penalty is the shorter period of time during which your stats are at minuses... the time period is dependent on your number of death points, something like (# death points - 1) x 5 min, with the degree of penalty directly related as well, something like (# death points - 1) x 5 % up to a maximum that used to be something like 20 % and now is 75 % (i'm probably waaaay off on the real numbers, but you get the concept that it got worse now).

since it takes longer to get rid of death points now (e.g., 28 hours instead of just 8), many characters wind up carrying more death points around when they go on hunts, etc. this means if they die, they get a longer and stiffer penalty than they used to.

there are more foods now to alleviate this, but ouchies on the time & expense to prepare them... so it costs more to get rid of dp's too.

[Sigi]

Thanks awdz. The concept is rather clear now.
Does anyone have the real numbers?

[Shur]

according to teh patch notes, awdz just listed them

[Galdethriel]

Seriously, what have you all got against the concept of battling efficiently?

Just be more careful and you'll be fine.

[Tcei]

I think this would be less of an issue if battleing carefuly were actualy posible in some instances. When I did hunt most of the dps I'd get would be from the server suddenly deciding that I really was going to stay in the area and not just spending 5-20 mins sitting in one spot to get to somewhere else, Im willing to bet that happens to alot of others too... I cant count how many times I've sat in one spot pulling because it seemed safe or was safe the last time I sat there only to have a dozen nasties suddenly spawn on me.

[Galdethriel]

I cant count how many times I've sat in one spot pulling because it seemed safe or was safe the last time I sat there only to have a dozen nasties suddenly spawn on me.

I know this'll inevitably happen to lots of people while hunting. But the devs are willing to remove death points that have been obtained this way. :/

Just gotta remember to be aware of your surroundings. Mobs like the Blight tend to move around but if you were hunting, say, abortus, they tend to group together. Their herds'll still vary of course, but you get my drift.

I generally start quite far off the area the mobs usually spawn and work my way towards them with intervals where I'll just wait to see if I get any sudden spawns. Once I've found them I just make a note of where they are for one hunting session. It changes every time I hunt them.

I dunno how well that'd work for other people, but... works alright for me. Blight mobs might be a bit less suitable, because they're idiots. XD

[gopher65]

I'm just ticked about the strength of Healer Aggro on most (all?) mobs. I was out hunting with a group yesterday. We had 2 healers and a Spiritist with all available heals, and guess who died all the time?

This seemed to be how things went: Dragon gets aggro. Dragon gets mezzed. Dragon takes some damage. Dragon gets unmezzed and pulls mobs back to group. Healers or Spiritist heal Dragon. All mobs in group aggro a Healer or Spiritist. Healer dies over a 2 second period before anyone can react and cast a single heal on them. Rest of group kills mobs with ease, because only 5 of them were pulled. Healer gets ressed.

Healer aggro is great in principle, but it badly needs to be tweaked. With the new DP system we basically NEED to have Healers in the group (not clerics. Cleric is no better that Druid, and worse than Spiritist, at healing). And a Healer really can't stand up to that kind of punishment. So here's what I want to know: if healers are the only things that can hold aggro, then why play anything except Healer, Mage, and Dragon during group fights? Those are the only classes that remain effective in the face of this buggy aggro. Dragon pulls, Mage multi-bombs, and Healers hold aggro while healing healing other. Every other class is extraneous. There is certainly no need to bring a tank along, because their entire existence is based on keeping aggro, and they can't.

Here's my suggestion: I think that the devs should get together one night, create level 100 multiclassed characters for themselves, and plunk themselves down on Chaos or Order and do a little bit of testing for themselves. I'm willing to let you all have a night off from Deving unless there is an emergency:P. Many of the mechanics in the game do not scale in a linear fashion, so the gameplay at level 100 is different than it is at level 10. You can't test what the game is like at level 10 on NT. After you actually play the game for once I think you'll have a better appreciation of how to tweak the current systems to maximize the fun factor for everyone.

[Pharcellus]

Seriously, what have you all got against the concept of battling efficiently?

Just be more careful and you'll be fine.

I will admit that I rarely die when just out "farming" adventurer. I know my capabilities, know when, where, and how to run when things aren't going well, and I know the spawns intimately. unless I am "testing" myself, I don't hardly ever come close to being worried about dying.

That said, I have 4 DPs right now. One for each of the Reklar hunts I have went on in the last two days, one for trying my luck against ONE blight anchor mob when another one warped in and aced me with 2600hp before he even rezzed to me, and one other unspecified death in the ED.

For some things, like boss hunts, one or more DPs are inevitable, because they just do too much damage all at one time, and it is hard for even multiple healers to mitigate it.

I have yet to get my furball cooking the new food, so I don't know how much it will cost, or what it will take, but I am going to give it a try first before I say much else about it. However, one thing I do think should have been done is to give some lead time to confectioners to get stocks going before the death point adjustments were rolled in. Rolling them in together has cast a bit of a pall on adventuring for the moment.

[Oakleif]

However, one thing I do think should have been done is to give some lead time to confectioners to get stocks going before the death point adjustments were rolled in. Rolling them in together has cast a bit of a pall on adventuring for the moment.

Hmm... I had several confectioners on Order tell me last night in game that the price on the pawnbroker for food needs to be raised because they had food sitting in the taverns past its shelf life and the Imperial Food and Drug Administration was pulling it for health reasons and dropping it into their vaults.

[Mairynn Nalnair]

Hmm... I had several confectioners on Order tell me last night in game that the price on the pawnbroker for food needs to be raised because they had food sitting in the taverns past its shelf life and the Imperial Food and Drug Administration was pulling it for health reasons and dropping it into their vaults.

new or old types off food ?.