Leaving in protest

[Shur]

Perhaps dragon-created food will come with time, but it will take time to add. It will involve many new skills and abilities, not to mention forms and whatnot. This doesn't happen overnight. Demanding that the new changes be changed or that dragon-created food be made available right now, without giving the new system time to work seems to be a very selfish and arrogant demand.

the system should never have been rolled live 50% done. period. i know it takes time to develop a new school. i can appreciate this. i am not asking for a whole new school overnight. what i am asking is that something be done. It would be wonderful to see some manner of development get rolling. in the mean time, the DP timer should be rolled back to its previous setting, or some other temporary solution should be offered.

[Zexoin]

Deth, his first words were :

well, in protest of the new DP system, i am leaving.

[awdz]

i disagree with your premise that the game cannot be played by dragons without biped support now.

jeepers shur, dragons don't make potions, but having potions can make game play so much easier! yes, dragons can hunt/craft without them, but more effectively with them.

it is possible for dragons to hunt with minimal dp's or to recover from dp's without food. it sounds to me like you are simply angry about the magnitude in this case of the difference between using the biped product or not.

and it's not like bipeds can do completely without dragons in this - there are herbs that bipeds simply cannot get to. once dragons can make their own food, shall bipeds have access to these "dragon-only" places?

maybe it's a good thing to keep some areas segregated, but i for one do not like that. i rather like something that promotes everyone working together more in game.

and as much as i hate the timer on the new dp's (i've not even managed to make one recipe yet let alone a full meal, and got 3 dp's in the process of trying to collect items for it), i think the creativity and innovation in this change is really cool. i'm giving changing how i do/how i approach things a try before i scream "foul".

[Shur]

Deth, his first words were :

my first words were poorly thought out, written and posted with a hot head.

jeepers shur, dragons don't make potions, but having potions can make game play so much easier! yes, dragons can hunt/craft without them, but more effectively with them.

exactly, we -can- go without them. and guess what? i -do- go without them. however with the new increase in DP timers we -can't- go without food. this means reliance on bipeds. maybe you don't think there is anything wrong with that. fine. but it goes against lore, -especially- lunus lore, to have dragons depending on bipeds for basic necessities.

even if you personally don't mind the increase reliance, you cannot possibly deny that goes against the grain.

[awdz]

however with the new increase in DP timers we -can't- go without food.

i still disagree with that. it's just not nearly as easy as it was before.

[Zexoin]

i still disagree with that. it's just not nearly as easy as it was before.

I second that.

[Shur]

i still disagree with that. it's just not nearly as easy as it was before.

it was fine the way it it was. no it's "not nearly so easy" to the point that one is faced with the option of not doing any serious hunting for irritatingly large chunks of time if one chooses not to stomach biped dependence.

[awdz]

even being able to make recipes, i cannot seem to get the ingredients for them without racking up the dp's. i have yet to eat one of the new foods and am up to 4 dp's with going after ingredients. it's not just dragons suffering.

[Shur]

i never said it was. however, dragons -are- getting the shortest end of the stick.

[Amecha]

This is turning into a dragon vs. biped argument. Each new patch seems to spark one either against or for. As always, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I've only once in my many years of being in Istaria, even used DP reducing products. The fact that the DPs now last longer isn't going to change that. You don't need to constantly eat away DPs to enjoy the game. Death happens, life goes on (funny, no?).

Patches are added, and in the first few weeks, problems and issues are discussed (usually in a calm manner), and changes are made as needed. To switch back to the old ways until they perfect the new ones is one step forward and two steps back.

I realize your argument isn't about DPs strictly, though the fact that dragon-created food isn't available right now shouldn't keep anyone from playing the game, that's just feeling sorry for ones self. The point I'm making is that DPs aren't as bad as you're making them out to be, and your strong reluctance to accept biped-created food shouldn't stop you from playing.

[Shur]

This is turning into a dragon vs. biped argument.

the thing is, the very nature of the problem is dragon vs biped. the current system forces a comparison.

I realize your argument isn't about DPs strictly, though the fact that dragon-created food isn't available right now shouldn't keep anyone from playing the game, that's just feeling sorry for ones self.

or, it's making a stand for what one believes in. for example: i believe in playing games that are fun, and not playing ones in which the fun is outweighed by headache and irritation. the increased harshness in punishing for death without an addition of a manner for dragons to deal with it without running to a biped renders more frustration than the game is fun.

The point I'm making is that DPs aren't as bad as you're making them out to be, and your strong reluctance to accept biped-created food shouldn't stop you from playing.

right, sure. the thing is, if i were to continue my usual play cycle for hunting (hunt until ~3-4 DP are acquired, wait a day for them to wear off, repeat) i would gain death points significantly faster than i would shed them. this means that each new day, my penalty for death would be longer and more severe (the cap having been raised on that as well) than the previous. making the game more of a chore as i wait for penalty to wear off, or try to hunt with it anyway.

and before any of you get all high and mighty on me and say "well be more careful so you don't get more deaths" keep in mind that 3-4 DP a day factors in at least one lag death and at least one massive-overspawn

[Amecha]

right, sure. the thing is, if i were to continue my usual play cycle for hunting (hunt until ~3-4 DP are acquired, wait a day for them to wear off, repeat) i would gain death points significantly faster than i would shed them.

That many in a single day? No offense, but that is a lot for one day. I can get in some great hunting every day and easily go without a single death. Maybe some new hunting tactics?

[Creme]

and before any of you get all high and mighty on me and say "well be more careful so you don't get more deaths" keep in mind that 3-4 DP a day factors in at least one lag death and at least one massive-overspawn

Massive overspawn is avoidable. By this time (i.e., level 100 dragon working on AROP), you should know which areas have massive delayed spawn pops. Even if you don't know which areas do or don't, as a dragon you have the perfect means to scout with little to no risk. Even the Satyr Islands where Sorcerer's and Striders can stun at a distance, I've rarely died, in that if you keep trying to gain altitude, eventually you'll fly out of range of the stuns.

There are also islands that are laid out in a means where the WA mobs can be approached without mass spawning (Dahibi via the pad).

If you can't handle the areas with massive spawn pops, don't hunt there or go there in a group. As it is, I think Istaria is going to need an "easy", "difficult/hard", and then a "hell" mode; perhaps "enter at your own risk" zones, if players refuse to adjust their hunting style to avoid death points.

I don't play on your PC or know your setup, but I do realize that some players do have great difficulties in rendering mobs in a timely manner. If you need help getting familiar with high-risk zones and how to approach them judiciously, I'm sure if you ask in game, players would assist you.

I know a number of dragons with connections from hell that play on some really crappy systems and for the most part, they do fine, in fact some of them are the most amazingly skillful players in game, but they know the ins-and outs of this game, the mobs, and the spawn patterns, as well as the limits and capabilities of their dragons.

[Oakleif]

Dragons are going to be forced to rely on bipeds making it Detrimental to Lunus Lore.

The confectioner being restricted to bipeds is perfectly in line with the official Lunus and Helian lore. In the official Lunus lore, dragons were the masters and the other races were slaves. In the official Helian lore, dragons were the masters and the other races were servants. The difference being the degree of autonomy and degree of free-thinking allowed to the nakas.

In either case, the dragons may very probably have had naka slaves/servants/kitchen-wenches to do the cooking and cleaning, making more varied and interesting meals for their overlords. Of course, being able to swoop down on unsuspecting herds or wild animals for a quick snack is always to be enjoyed, but such food nourishes the body without affecting the soul, whereas the special confectioner foods need to do both in order to help you recover from actual death as a gifted dragon.

Now, since dragons were forced/agreed to come to the bargaining table with the Imperial government, or perhaps further back in history with the time of Vandus, we have lost that relationship. That change will cause different reactions depending on your personality.

If you choose to play an Angry-Young-Drake that choses the extremist path of having no relationship with our former slaves/servants, that is your choice. If that choice makes life harder for you, you can either use it for some great rhetoric, or a roleplay opportunity to mature and become a slightly less angry middle-aged drake that sees that life isn't so black and white, but that most of life consists of shades of grey.

Regardless, take your decision in game. Its a roleplaying decision.

Also, continue with suggestions and giving support for wanting a dragon chef class here on the boards. It may be roleplay motivated, but if we (players) demonstrate the desire, the devs will note that and may create a dragon grillmaster class that creates different types of food. However, keep in mind that confectioner was mostly done before the EI interregnum, so expect that it will be quite a while after its started before this new dragon craft class is completed. In the meantime, continue your roleplay in game.

[Galdethriel]

the thing is, if i were to continue my usual play cycle for hunting (hunt until ~3-4 DP are acquired, wait a day for them to wear off, repeat) i would gain death points significantly faster than i would shed them.

Then maybe it's best if you changed this. It's a pretty bad system anyway. :/ Do what a smart hunter does and avoid being killed by all means possible. And don't you start telling me you can't do that. Lunus and stubborn, maybe, but unless you play one hell of an idiotic rockhead you have no excuse. XDDDDD

Lunus can be difficult, but they're not rockheads.

[Shur]

That many in a single day? No offense, but that is a lot for one day. I can get in some great hunting every day and easily go without a single death. Maybe some new hunting tactics?

and before any of you get all high and mighty on me and say "well be more careful so you don't get more deaths" keep in mind that 3-4 DP a day factors in at least one lag death and at least one massive-overspawn

Massive overspawn is avoidable. By this time (i.e., level 100 dragon working on AROP), you should know which areas have massive delayed spawn pops.

when i say massive overspawn i include events like backing off to heal and having the three to five wolves i just killed respawn under me.

Even if you don't know which areas do or don't, as a dragon you have the perfect means to scout with little to no risk.

except for the fact that i can (and indeed have regularly experienced this) fly over an area for ten minutes to assess the spawns, only to trigger a delayed spawn once i land and pull something, and before i know it i have six extra mobs on me when there weren't half that many on the field before i landed.


regardless of any of this, not all of us have been here for five years and can manage to kill an endless swarm of mobs without taking a few deaths. you all accuse me of being arrogant for my distaste of peds, but in the same breath put me down for not possessing the same skills and experience as a veteran player?

[Oakleif]

/em whistles for a time-out.

Everyone is getting offensively defensive of their viewpoints, which is going to prevent any sort of rational discussion leading to a proposal that we can take to the developers.

I suggest we stop any actual name-calling and also stop assuming that anyone offering suggestions for living with the current state of the game is saying that others have poor playing skills, and return to a discussion of what we'd like the developers to implement.

I think we can safely assume that the developers are NOT going to remove the changes to confectioner, or remove the current death point system. What can be changed are individual hunting techniques, spawn areas as the tier revamps are completed, and possibly the creation of a dragon craft school for creating DP-removal foods.

So, which areas are the worst for respawn deaths? Perhaps we can ask the devs to bump those areas up on the tier revamp schedule, or visit them like the treants were visited for the winter festival (I've noticed a couple changes in treant spawn patterns compared to before the festival, leaving a better mob progression through an area).

Also, what suggestions do we have for a dragon food preparation class? I've already offered one proposal, are there others?

[Galdethriel]

you all accuse me of being arrogant for my distaste of peds,

I don't remember us all saying that, actually. Though it is odd to have a distaste of other players based on the race they chose to play. IC and OOC should be kept very seperate at all times.

but in the same breath put me down for not possessing the same skills and experience as a veteran player?

Heck, Shur, you're in your 90s for level. I'm not even level 60 yet but I can avoid deathpoints effectively enough when I need to. One would think that you, who is higher levelled, would have been in more battles and therefore would have more experience in battle. (With the exception of intense powerlevelling). So really, you don't need to be a veteran player in order to not die. I can do it. You can too.

Also, what suggestions do we have for a dragon food preparation class? I've already offered one proposal, are there others?

I liked the idea of dragons being able to harvest various types of meat and cook them with flame However, I think it should be either much less effective than bipeds cooking (because bipeds can cook with more care rather than just trying to blast the meat until cooked) or it should have a slightly different effect. :O Maybe go in a gifted slot to offer a slight stat boost to make up for it's lack of effectiveness compared to biped food? I dunno, I just think the effects of dragon and biped food should be a bit different. Don't mind me and my crappy brain drain. XD

Maybe offer the Khutits the ability to make a limited range of basic dishes, when in that form only? They'd be able to physically.



My sister Skihlairk has this to say (because her account is bugged):

Shur, you seem to be the only player I have come across who has a problem with the DP system. I know you were pretty disgruntled when the actual DP system went online because of the sheer amount of points you actually had but you were given the option to have your DPs removed, which is more than anyone else got and what did you do? You snubbed the offer and rather aroogantly too. So really all I can think to say to you is: don't like it? Lump it. If you think the new DP system is bad enough for you to leave the game then do it.

She isn't very pleased and swiped the laptop. O.o

[Hrough]

I think that the Death Point revamp isn't a BAD thing...

But the length that they last has gotten ridiculous. I know the Death Penalty hasn't changed, but 12 days? That's just an insane amount of time. I think the amount of time for the points to fade is just a liiiittle too high, even with the confectioners around. And it's true, it really isn't fair to Lunus role-players.

It doesn't affect me much because I'm a low level, and I don't care about Death Points - just the status-reducing penalty - but it's still a bit ridiculous. I usually have at least three death points on me after a hunt, and that's even with being careful.

I've never seen how bad they got before, but I think it needs just a little tweaking.

[awdz]

would it be possible to knock down the timer to 2 hours for each tier earned instead of 4? the epic battles can leave an epic number of dp's (i got up to 40 dp's with daknor hunts once), it's overwhelming to face over a day of recovery time per dp.