Name "Reclaiming"

[Takora Drakan]

Personally, I feel that my names are *mine*. I don't want a freakin' _Order appended to them on my HOME shard. I don't mind it being appended for things like my Blight copies. That's fair for the Blight players. They were there first.

That said, I understand that the Unity players don't have a Home shard anymore. However, that's not the fault of the players on the remaining shards. A part of me says you should be grateful that you can play at all, and the _Unity thing is a pretty petty thing to start making demands of your new shardmates over. Another part of me understands that a character name is an important thing to a lot of people, as mine is to me.

I dont want to be gandalf the grey ok? I want to be Takora not Takora_unity because a over 18 month inactive acc, that the person only shortly played and moved on keeps my name? I have the name over 1600 days and now i'm dommed to run around with the _unity tag? I dont want to be a holy cow placed in front of me because I'm from unity, I just wanted to blend in the community when i remove the _unity tag. And no, changing my name is NOT A OPTION!

[Deth]

The names do not belong to a non-paying customer.

I assume just like every other EULA out there every little pixel of your Char belongs to VI.

As to playing your self off as some one else I am sure most people will figure out fairly quickly who is the real person behind the name and word will quickly get out that this is not the same person. Also anyone thats going on trying to play them self off as someone they are not can get reported and dealt with as well as the old friends of the original name will get the word out as it is not the same person.

But again I think this should be a one time process. Maybe in another 5 years. *knock on wood* it could be done again, and if I lost my name at that time? would I be mad? Not at all.

[C`gan]

Hmmm, I think Pharcellus brought up a huge remedy to what I've been throwing out. Use the second name. Granted, some of us don't have second names, but for those who do, it's at least a good bet that two name combinations for recognition would certainly distinguish different people.

[Shian]

Hmmm, I think Pharcellus brought up a huge remedy to what I've been throwing out. Use the second name. Granted, some of us don't have second names, but for those who do, it's at least a good bet that two name combinations for recognition would certainly distinguish different people.

That would be a huge undertaking in re-writing code. You'd have to completely re-do the tell system to recognize both names. You think it's bad when a player has 13 random letters in thier name for one, imagine trying to send them a tell if thier last name is also simmalarily spelled. Or one that had thier first name easy to spell because of the tell system, but have a long, extravagant last name and now need a name change because the system now uses both names.

I'm sure they'd rather work on something else then trying _this_ hard to free up some names.

[C`gan]

Tamaracaran Thothalomodais. Yes, I understand your meaning, Shian. B^)
Or, even worse, Siadomolahtoht Naracaramat.

[Vlisson]

im against it

but i can understand new players too

like if you play Warcraft III (not WoW) and try to create a new account

all good names are already used ^^



what happens to the settings?
if my name got reclaimed? then my hotkeys and settings dont work if i come back because the name changed?

[Garfonso]

You just have to rename some files... if they have some spare time, they could even implement that feature into the client...

[aine]

Regarding:

Personally, I feel that my names are *mine*.

Try to contact the original player and get PERMISSION to release the name.

VI owns the names. Item 11, EULA. Standard mmorpg copyright stuff.

[Adwene]

Personally, I do have some reservations about people taking the names of well known long term players that have quit. I do understand that these people with the new names will not suddenly show up on our friends lists because the character ID won't be the same.

However, I've read peoples comments and suggestions and ultimately the names and characters and all the data for them belong to VI. Personally, I would handle it similar to this.

1/ Generic Email going out to everyone on mailing list that states that if your account hasn't been current (paid) in the last *12* months (IMO 3 months isn't enough time), their name will be able to be requested by current paying customers. If this should occur their name will be altered to Name_server. Offer free name change to those affected upon return to the game.

2/ Anyone that has a trial account and never paid for a subscription automatically has the name reset to Name_server 3 months after the trial ends. Their name *immediately* becomes available for use.

3/ Change EULA to specifically state that any account that hasn't been paid for at least 1 month in last 12 months will potentially have the names of its characters changed to Name_server, if another player specifically requests that name. However, should the person return to the game at a later stage they will be entitled to a free name change. No guarentee that they will be able to obtain their original name.

Personally I would not bother to contact customers on a one on one basis. Its too time consuming for you at VI. I wouldn't take cash then return it if you can't affect a name change, too much work for you. Keep the whole process as simple as you can.

Also if you don't have data going back to the payment or lack of payment before the last sale of Horizons to you, substutite the 12 months back to the date of sale, to simpify things. However, once the 12 month anniversary has passed , I really would consider that as a marker.

[Nisse]

Oboy!
Somewhere out there, there's a Nisse older than me. And I've been playing for much of the time Ho...er Istaria's been around.
Had to rename myself to Nisse`a during the merger. Never saw another Nisse on chaos :s

[Salis]

If I was running Istaria I would take a different approach to the whole subject.

First of all the database could very well do with a clean up. And more funding is always welcome aswell.

So here is my multi-step action plan:

1. New account subscriptions:
a. Set at 3.75 a month (about 1/4 of a Gifted account): A character name protection plan: you reduce your active account to an I-am-on-extended-leave, preventing the reassignment of your character's names to other players. (Reactivation to Gifted prior to experation of this plan does not entitle to a refund!)
b. Set at 7.95 a month (about 1/2 of a Gifted account): A character name and plot protection plan: your account is the same as the Character name protection plan, but with the added protection the plot/lair you own. (Reactivation to Gifted prior to expiration of this plan does not entitle to a refund!)
c. Set at 12.95 Grandfathered account: As before a one time offer for inactive account, not extendable nor renewable and available to inactive accounts only.

As you are paying (for a and b): your account is seen as active, but you cannot login to play your characters.

Subscription plans: (between () is the monthly rate for that plan)
New: 3 month subscription plans, grandfathered is back (), name- and name/plot-protection plans. I also would lower the 12 month plan on a Gifted account as it currently makes no sense to pay for 12 months as you pay exactly the double of a six-month plan! Also offer those who bought such a plan currently an extention of 2 or even 3 months for free to compensate.
Also the 6 and 12 month gifted plan is a bit more competitive towards Lotro and WOW pricing plans (not factoring in anniversary or other special plans)

1m 3m 6m 12m
Basic 9.95
Gifted 14,95 41.85(13.95) 77.70(12.95) 131.40(10.95)(changed from 155.40(12.95))
Grandfathered 12.95 35.85(11.95) 65.70(10.95) 119.40(9.95)
Name-protection 3.75 10.50(3.5) 19.50(3.25) 36.00(3.00)
Name/plot-protection 7.95 22.35(7.45) 41.70(6.95) 77.40(6.45)

2. Make an inactive shard, or the minimum to whatever is necesary to create an extra database to move inactive accounts to. However it should be possible upon activation of an old account to transfer an inactive account towards it's former old shard.
Inactive accounts are moved towards that shard upon inactivity of more than 6 months. Upon transfer to the inactive shard, your characters are renamed to charactername_shard_number.

(This is to free up the database on the active shard, a provide a smoother experience towards the players.)

If this is not possible:
After 1 month of inactivity your plot is reclaimed
After 6 months of inactivity your character(s) is(are) renamed to charactername_shardname_number

3. Standard rules:
Basic, Gifted or Grandfathered account (paid for without interruption for 3 months or longer!)
A. is protected for 1 month against plot reclamation
B. is protected for 6 months against name reclamation
C. can purchase a name protection plan up to 6 months of non-payment.
D. can purchase a name/plot protection plan up to one month of non-payment.
E. Is considered inactive after 6 months without payment (so you get name protection for 6 months, and 1 month for your plot)

Basic, Gifted or Grandfathered accounts (paid for less than a 3 month without interruption)
A. is protected for 1 month against plot reclamation
B. is protected for 1 month against name reclamation
C. Cannot purchase any kind of protection plan
D. Is considered inactive 14 days after expiration (thus only with 14 day plot reclamation and name protection!)

Basic accounts are one way deals. Upon upgrading to Gifted, you cannot go back to basic. They are more or less extended trial periods as they also cannot own plots.

Grandfathered accounts:
As before a one time offer: not extendable nor renewable and available to inactive accounts only, furthermore only available to accounts created before and inactive since Virtriums take-over!

Name and Name/plot protection plans
A. Any Name or name/plot-protection can be renewed as long as the account hasn't expired.
B. Upon experation off the plan due to non-renewal, you need to repurchase a Gifted account for at least 3 months before you can fall back to the Name or Name/plot protection plans. (This to prevent one-month payment, one month non payment schemes!)

Upon reactivation of an inactive account without protectionplan:
If your plot hasn't been reclaimed it's still yours.
If your names haven't been taken by someone else you get them back.
If that character names is taken you are offered a free of charge renaming of those characters affected.

4. A special feature in horizons: The Graveyard. (maybe around Tazoon or so.)
Any player which has passed away (needs to be properly proven (death certificate or so to avoid ackward mistakes) gets a grave in the Graveyard: honouring them, and allowing them to be remembered by their fellow players. I propose to protect the character name of the player for which he/she is most remembered by (which is also put upon the grave). Furthermore a Basic account is provided free of charge to the family so that the can visit the Grave of their beloved one.

5. Plot reclamation: is needed fairly soon, maybe give the Unity players a bit more time to get the funding for a new plot ready.

6. Send out an email to all inactive account holders.
Tell them about the new ownership, tell them about the name change to Istaria, tell them about the many changes already done (confectioner being the big one). And alert them about the new subscription plans and the hopefully upcoming plot-reclamation.
Possible purchase plans for current inactive account holders offer valable until 30 days after the sending of the mailing.
Inactive accounts
A. If inactive since and creation date prior to VI's takeover: Any plan of the following plans can be purchased: Gifted, Grandfathered or one of the protection plans.
B. If inactive and created after VI's takeover: Only Gifted or one of the protection plans.

7. Dealing with inactive accounts 30 days past the mailing.
Follow the standard rules


My thoughts:
Yes names are important, but if you don't play a game nor pay a subscription of any kind towards that game, your name is deemed less important than the wishes of the actually paying account holders. So I think a standard name protection of six months if you paid three months consecutively (shows you are/were at least a wee bit interested in playing the game) is more than reasonable. You want more protection buy it.
Istaria is much smaller than the bigshots like WOW and LotRO, so smaller results in different rulesets.

Salis

[Creme]

Pretty comprehensive, looks like you put a lot of thought into it.

I like the graveyard idea; not sure that a death certificate is necessarily needful, as it might overly cause pain to the family to have to provide one.

[Salis]

I mentioned a death certificate. But I'm sure if multiple long time and respected players confirm that someone has passed away, that this would also suffice.
I feel it is a small gesture of the company towards the relatives and may offer a bit of consolation, knowing that their beloved one lives on in the memory of their favourite passtime.

Salis

[Salis]

Ah forgot to mention a point in my long post.
There is one possible semi-exploit with the name/plot protection plan:
a cheaper second, third, fourth, ... plot.

However it is severely hampered due to the fact that nothing can be altered towards those plots, as you can not login.
Only if you are set in your ways, and think you have all the right stuff built, and have set the settings correctly, it would be a cheaper plot. True.

Now if you do happen to have such a plot. It will probably be set up with fairly broad access: meaning no friends only access, but kinship/free to all access.
So in a way that plot is probably helping other players in the world aswell.
It would lessen the load a bit on the shoulders of those currently holding on to 4 or more accounts to provide the community with functional plots.

A countermeasure could be set in place on those plots if wanted so. Simply make the plots permissions reflect the non login status. The plot is visually there, but no one but the player's character (which can't login) can use any of the structures.

Exploit solved. This could ofcourse result in hindering the community, but with a decent plot reclamation policy, more plots will be available, and those not available are at least paying for it, this time around.

Salis

[Favoran]

I think those are great ideas, Salis. I especially like the idea of being able to buy name/plot protection, but I think it'd be better if it could go longer than 6 months. Some people may be genuinely interested in playing, but be unable to access their account for 2 or 3 years, or more, depending on their situation. I know under those circumstances I'd more than happily protect at least one character.

That's another thing, would you need to pay for the name protection for every character you wish to protect?

[velveeta]

this sort of thing should be sub, not individual alt, especially if money is charged for the service.
my opinion

[Pharcellus]

Duh. Excuse me but this isn't a Unity thing. Don't know why you are so offensive, must be some personel thing but the name reclaiming is a general suggestion. Not a demand of any kind.

Well, it IS a "Unity thing", in this case; it's in the OP.

Offensive? I think you are reading more into my words than is there. Try reading the whole post, please.

No, I have nothing personal against any Unity user. I am quite happy with having you all as my shardmates, and have ALWAYS been 110% supportive of your plight; I had the "Give Unity a Voice" banner in my sig for a LONG time. Again, I think you misunderstand what I am trying to get across.

If it IS a demand, that is bad; it shouldn't be expected. That's why I said "part of me feels".. for those who would make it a demand.

Is also why I proffered alternatives.

[Pharcellus]

easy fix then. Keep subscribing.

Not always an option, nor should it necessarily be.

The name change is clearly aimed at those who have LONG left Istaria. Those people WILL be contacted. If they can't be bothered to check email, check into the forums, or otherwise contact anyone in Istaria, then it's highly likely they'll never be back!

Maybe. Maybe not. However, anyone showing up on Order, taking Sapphire's or Moleni's, or Roxi's, or any other person's name, regardless of how long ago they left, I would be very put out over. Those people BUILT Dawn/Order, along with many of us; many who are not with us any more, and at least two who are not with us in RL anymore. I'm sorry, but no. If you can get ahold of them and get PERMISSION, then fine. Otherwise, there needs to be another alternative to taking names.

I thought about my own gaming history. I played EQ1 for over 5 years. I certainly clocked up over 1000 hours of playing. Would I ever go back? Not a chance! Anyone would be welcome to my character names, I'm certainly not going to need them again. So some of Pharcellus's comments about what "should" be considered I don't think are that valid. Even if a player clocked up 1000 hours 3 years ago and hasn't been back since, why should their feelings be considered if all reasonable contact has been made (and I would say a month is ample). They are not being given the ultimatum "if you don't resubscribe we'll delete your characters", they are being told "we're assuming you're not coming back at the moment, if you don't respond, we'll make a small adjustment to your character name". It's not that big a deal.

Well, they may not be valid to you, but I assure you, they are most valid to me.

I would even fight for your characters in that situation, too. Even if you didn't care, in the absence of consent and knowledge that you were good with it, I would still refuse to accept taking YOUR names as a proper solution to the problem.

If the game had, from the outset, said "keep your account active, and you won't be subject to character reclamation", then things would be different. However, past owners have said, repeatedly, "no, there will be no character wiping", and I think it is fair to say that name reclamation falls into the same category. Yes, I am aware that Vi is not bound by the promises of past owners, but their customers (past, present, or future) are not bound to give them any quarter if they don't.

I don't want this turning into another "Unity vs the other shards" thread. Yes, this has been brought to the front I'd imagine because of some name conflicts with Unity (myself being one of them) but the issue still remains, whether the "Unity" situation had happened or not.

Not really. It hasn't really been an issue until now. Other games don't have the same issue (as I outlined), why else would there be a problem? That said, I am not blaming anything on the Unity players. I understand the problem, and, in my post, I expressed proper sympathy for the situation. However, some things, in my mind, are just wrong, and that's what I posted about.

What people seem to be getting so upset by is the fact that long time inactive players, who'll probably never return, are going to lose their identities? Bluntly, so WHAT? If they never return (and they will get quite a bit of time to respond) then what on earth is the point of reserving their name? If someone returns 2 years down the line, they should be grateful their characters still exist, and having _(shardname) appended seems like a very small price to pay for not bothering to pay or log in for 2 years (plus whatever time they have already gone).

I feel the same way, in reverse. The fact that you can't get YOUR name. Just as bluntly, so what? I don't know you. I knew Moleni. I knew Darkstorm. I knew Sapphire. They were good friends. I would want them to come back and not be greeted with "Welcome back Sapphire_Order Sniper!". They'd probably not bother to log in again after that, and I wouldn't blame them. Pretty much, if you're gonna reclaim names, you might as well delete the characters, if you take the view you are offering.

Also, given "Istaria"'s sordid history, I don't blame anyone for being gone a while and coming back. Hell, I was gone for two years. If I came back and was "Maltavorn_Order Sulheru" on my home shard, with some newb running around with my name, I'd probably say "screw it", too.

For those who are worried about "famous" characters being taken over - for goodness sake, Virtrium have SAID they'll publish a list of names that are available. If you feel that strongly about any of them TELL VIRTRIUM!! They are decent people, and if you have a good case, I'm sure they'll take the names off the "available" list.

Thanks, but I would rather explore other alternatives first. What I may consider "good cause", may not be "good enough" for Vi (or you, for that matter).

If I was a new player and tried all of my favourite "identity" names, and found they were all taken, I'd be miffed, but probably adopt a new one. If I was having an off day I might get extremely grumpy and decide never to play the game (not at all like me, but quite possibly like some of the overreactions shown on this thread so far).

Same is true with any game. It's a matter of being creative. Istaria makes it harder because the last name doesn't add to the uniqueness, but I don't have issues in any other mature game creating unique character names. I suppose some people might be miffed, but to those people I say: "Early character gets the name!"

Are we trying to move on? Are we trying to attract new players, and get Istaria growing again, or do we really want it to stagnate, hoping against all odds that players who are long gone might for some bizarre reason change their mind?

Considering Istaria is a "niche game" (as stated by the current owners), I think an effort to explore all options and solutions possible would be important. Chances are, the old playerbase is one of the best sources to draw from for getting customers. I mean, that was the whole point of importing Unity characters, right?

[Pharcellus]

I dont want to be gandalf the grey ok? I want to be Takora not Takora_unity because a over 18 month inactive acc, that the person only shortly played and moved on keeps my name? I have the name over 1600 days and now i'm dommed to run around with the _unity tag? I dont want to be a holy cow placed in front of me because I'm from unity, I just wanted to blend in the community when i remove the _unity tag. And no, changing my name is NOT A OPTION!

I understand, Takora. I really do. That said, even if the other "Takora" is a newb who hardly played at all, is it unfathomable that the name could mean as much to him/her as it does to you? if the other Takora does come back, is greeted with "Takora_Order", gets miffed, and leaves, does that mean nothing?

I severely doubt the other Takora on Order is known as "Takora Drakan". I think the better solution should be to make the last name meaningful, rather than depriving someone else of their chosen name.

[Pharcellus]

That would be a huge undertaking in re-writing code.

Unlikely, but since neither of us have access to the code, who can say for sure?

You'd have to completely re-do the tell system to recognize both names. You think it's bad when a player has 13 random letters in thier name for one, imagine trying to send them a tell if thier last name is also simmalarily spelled. Or one that had thier first name easy to spell because of the tell system, but have a long, extravagant last name and now need a name change because the system now uses both names.

I don't know, who uses the /tell command line versus the friends list or player search? Even so, all you would have to type in addition is the surname. Big deal. If it is a problem, add them to your friends list. Problem solved. Long names, short names, makes no difference. Just click and a tell window opens.

I'm sure they'd rather work on something else then trying _this_ hard to free up some names.

Assuming it is hard. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Point is, it SHOULD be considered as an option, as much as taking names from other players.