May 2008 Live Content Patch

[Justa Mirage]

Deth...

Don't forget something as simple as "Water" that dragons need.

All the water in Istaria, and Dragons (unless they changed that with Ingenuity in the last patch) can't gather water, and since the water golems no longer drop it, someone doing their AROP will need it.

[Kerech]

Dragons should be able to make their own water... find an ice golem, quick fire breath, *poof* instant water

[Hrough]

Deth...

Don't forget something as simple as "Water" that dragons need.

All the water in Istaria, and Dragons (unless they changed that with Ingenuity in the last patch) can't gather water, and since the water golems no longer drop it, someone doing their AROP will need it.

I noticed that when I tried gathering water to make myself some snowballs. I haven't been able to gather any, and no one's selling it. XD

[Hoberton]

I was wondering if I could get a reason from the developers why the two new Dragon spells were done so only Dragons could scribe the forms. The answer Amon gave does not explain anything.

Because they are dragon spells....

Spellcrafting was one school shared by both Dragons and Bipeds. Why should this change now?

[AmonGwareth]

Because they are dragon spells and cannot be cast by anyone but dragons on anyone but dragons.

[Deth]

Oh so the primal heal can not be cast on Bipeds? Darn and I was hoping to see their little naka bodies explode from being over loaded with primal energies. I kid I kid.

[Hoberton]

Because they are dragon spells and cannot be cast by anyone but dragons on anyone but dragons.

What about all of the other Dragon spells then? Is this going to change all spells? Is any spell not castable by Dragons going to be removed from their list of spells they can make? Lets divide the game into two games then, Dragons do their things, Bipeds do theirs. Is this the trend this game has turned? I hope not.

[Takora Drakan]

Oh so the primal heal can not be cast on Bipeds? Darn and I was hoping to see their little naka bodies explode from being over loaded with primal energies. I kid I kid.

I did cast my primal health spell several times on bipeds but they didnt explode.. awwww....

[Deth]

What about all of the other Dragon spells then? Is this going to change all spells? Is any spell not castable by Dragons going to be removed from their list of spells they can make? Lets divide the game into two games then, Dragons do their things, Bipeds do theirs. Is this the trend this game has turned? I hope not.

Personally I do not think they should, for lore reasons and non-lore reasons. As I posted there are all kinds of things that biped can make that Dragons can not so whats the harm in dragons making a few things for them selves that bipeds can not make for them? If something was add that dragons could make but not use and was used only by bipeds then I could see a reason to complain. But these 2 spells and hopefuly the others are are not a reason to complain.

[Shian]

If something was add that dragons could make but not use and was used only by bipeds then I could see a reason to complain. But these 2 spells and hopefuly the others are are not a reason to complain.

Actually that would be more of a reason to support for me. Too many things that dragons rely on bipeds for, yet nothing a biped ever needs from a dragon except the occassional spell which they could also make themselves, so no point.

[Veruliyam]

Show me a biped with Primal skill and I'll be glad to give him the spells.

Sounds like the spells themselves need Primal skill. Am i wrong?

[Hoberton]

Show me a biped with Primal skill and I'll be glad to give him the spells.

Sounds like the spells themselves need Primal skill. Am i wrong?

Show me a Dragon that has anything other than Primal skill for any of the other spells. By the way - the spells only call for the spellcrafting ability but they attached the limitations of Dragons being the only ones to make these two spells.

[gopher65]

Actually that would be more of a reason to support for me. Too many things that dragons rely on bipeds for, yet nothing a biped ever needs from a dragon except the occassional spell which they could also make themselves, so no point.

I agree. I'd support a few things like this too. There is nothing wrong with interplay between the two "separate" games (dragon and biped). It's the illogicalness (oh come on spellcheck, you recognize that, but not dozens of more commonly used words?) of the current situation that bugs me. A spellcrafter can make every dragon-only spell *except* these two? How does that make sense?

Another thing about this that bugs me:

I'm not a spellcrafter. I sometimes have to wait DAYS to get spells made, unless I offer hundreds of silver for a spell (or 2). There simply aren't enough people online willing to make crafted items, even though nearly everyone has the ability to make them. And here Vi is, further limiting the % of the playerbase that can make certain items? I really don't want to have to wait a week to get a spell made instead of 3 days. That's just stupid.

Maybe this would be a good idea if we had 10 times the number of players...

[Steele]

Personally, I think these two spells (Primal Health and Gift of Velocity) are an experiment - and I hope the change is phased in across all primal spells.

Let me explain.

Putting all passion-driven arguments aside for a moment, if you think of it from a Lore perspective, Primal is the magic from which all other spell schools are derived. Bipeds do not understand Primal magic, and they can not cast Primal magic; they have only gained understanding of the individual spell schools – the individual facets of Primal.

Since Bipeds have no idea how to bend Primal magic to their will to make effective use of it; they therefore shouldn't possess the know-how to correctly carve stone into the shape of Primal runes and then properly infuse those Primal runes with magical essence to, when scribed, appropriately transfer knowledge on how to bend that type of magic to cast the spell. Although bipeds have gained mastery of all the individual spell schools that comprise Primal, that does not mean they have the understanding, the enlightenment, to properly weave all of the pieces together.

Dragons, on the other hand, have a deep mastery of Primal rune structure and somatics... they know how the runes all fit together and should be able to flawlessly harness only the Energy facet of Primal to make Energy spells, only the Life facet to make Life spells, etc. They should, by logic, not only be masters of Primal, but also of the individual component spell schools that are intricately weaved together to form Primal magic.

Of course, just because Dragons can choose to craft spells from those individual spell schools doesn’t mean that they choose to cast them; after all, sharing individual spell school knowledge with bipeds to empower them against a common enemy (the WA) is one thing… but if they believe Primal to be master over all individual spell schools, why would they ever allow their own kind to use those spells?

Perhaps some day Dragons may realize there is some wisdom to biped methods, and decide to manipulate the facets of Primal, concentrating one spell school type within the whole of Primal to give a little more of a “Spirit feel� to some of their spells, a “Nature feel� or a “Cold feel� to others. That remains yet to be seen.

[Drevar]

I personally wouldn't have any objection to giving dragons sole "ownership" over being able to craft primal spells. It would give a bit more exclusivity to them. Hundreds of bipeds already have the original primal spell forms scribed though, so it would be pretty much unnoticed I think. It might even be considered to remove primal spells from loot tables and creating another quest line or alternate means to obtain Primal forms; remove bipeds from the process entirely (trading/buying from biped adventurers)

As far as not being able to find someone to craft a spell; a lot of us do have spellcrafting, but because of the way the crafting schools can be chained, we picked up a lot of those schools as second thoughts. Once you master a school like mason, it is a shame to lose xp into the black hole of level 101 so we switch to another school like scholar or spellcrafter while making marble bricks, etc. I have 7 or so crafts at 100, but really prefer to stick to fletching and carpentry (I use the flecthing emblem). I may craft a sword or spell if someone asks several times and noone else answers, but those are not what I consider my primary area of expertise.

Drev

[Vahrokh]

Another thing about this that bugs me:

I'm not a spellcrafter. I sometimes have to wait DAYS to get spells made, unless I offer hundreds of silver for a spell (or 2). There simply aren't enough people online willing to make crafted items, even though nearly everyone has the ability to make them.

If you are a "dedicated" crafter you have to purchase hundreds silvers recipes, have to have a bigger plot with many silos, have to buy vault expansions at up to 1g per upgrade. You also MUST have all the recipes and all the techs, because either you will do the whole "set" or they'll go for another crafter.


Then, you ask 15s for a triple teched spell and they call you a thief?

At the same time all you see is SPAMMING (good thing some call them "epics") of Valkor / SoG / whatever epics left and right for golds a piece by the same who would call me thief for 15s a spell.

Make a Lunus / Helian disk takes many components and lots of time. Pay for it? NO WAY, it has to be given for free.



I have been contacted by a guy telling me he's "desperate" as it's impossible to find someone able to create fully teched T4 scale sets with any T4 tech.

Despite I could be greedy and abuse of this "position" of mine, I ask him _less_ than I ask to make a spell and the guy tells me it's too much and good riddance.
The day after he even asks another dragon more friend of mine to ask me in his behalf.


I am sorry, I don't need anyone's stinky money and will just pawn some crap. If the price to tailor craft stuff is to have to haggle and be name called or whatever then stay naked for all I care.

[Shur]

Show me a Dragon that has anything other than Primal skill for any of the other spells.

i hate to have be the one to break it to ya Hobbers, but...

Personally, I think these two spells (Primal Health and Gift of Velocity) are an experiment - and I hope the change is phased in across all primal spells.

Let me explain.

Putting all passion-driven arguments aside for a moment, if you think of it from a Lore perspective, Primal is the magic from which all other spell schools are derived. Bipeds do not understand Primal magic, and they can not cast Primal magic; they have only gained understanding of the individual spell schools – the individual facets of Primal.

Since Bipeds have no idea how to bend Primal magic to their will to make effective use of it; they therefore shouldn't possess the know-how to correctly carve stone into the shape of Primal runes and then properly infuse those Primal runes with magical essence to, when scribed, appropriately transfer knowledge on how to bend that type of magic to cast the spell. Although bipeds have gained mastery of all the individual spell schools that comprise Primal, that does not mean they have the understanding, the enlightenment, to properly weave all of the pieces together.

Dragons, on the other hand, have a deep mastery of Primal rune structure and somatics... they know how the runes all fit together and should be able to flawlessly harness only the Energy facet of Primal to make Energy spells, only the Life facet to make Life spells, etc. They should, by logic, not only be masters of Primal, but also of the individual component spell schools that are intricately weaved together to form Primal magic.

Of course, just because Dragons can choose to craft spells from those individual spell schools doesn’t mean that they choose to cast them; after all, sharing individual spell school knowledge with bipeds to empower them against a common enemy (the WA) is one thing… but if they believe Primal to be master over all individual spell schools, why would they ever allow their own kind to use those spells?

Perhaps some day Dragons may realize there is some wisdom to biped methods, and decide to manipulate the facets of Primal, concentrating one spell school type within the whole of Primal to give a little more of a “Spirit feel� to some of their spells, a “Nature feel� or a “Cold feel� to others. That remains yet to be seen.

... Steele's right. Primal is the source magic from which all biped schools are derived. Dragons, being versed in Primal magic, will naturally be able to craft spells which are derived from Primal.

I would -love- to see all Primal spells become craftable only by dragons. We -need- more exclusivity.

[awdz]

I would -love- to see all Primal spells become craftable only by dragons. We -need- more exclusivity.

*rolls eyes* the only final product skill in common to dragons & bipeds, and you want to eliminate even that connection too. there is lore that helians at least are willing to work with bipeds! and lunus used bipeds as slaves/servants, do you really think all dragons would prevent those bipeds from developing skills to help them with their work??

if dragons can craft biped spells that they cannot cast, then bipeds should be able to craft dragon spells that they cannot cast.

rather than exclusivity, i'd say dragons could develop less dependence on bipeds by learning how to cook their own foods and perhaps make some potions too. however, for game balance, i revert to, "if dragons can use the biped product, then bipeds should be able to use the dragon equivalent, and vice versa".

[Hoberton]

i hate to have be the one to break it to ya Hobbers, but...

You don't know me well enough to use my name in any way other than Hoberton.

... Steele's right. Primal is the source magic from which all biped schools are derived. Dragons, being versed in Primal magic, will naturally be able to craft spells which are derived from Primal.

I would -love- to see all Primal spells become craftable only by dragons. We -need- more exclusivity.

The exclusivity you ask for for is very short sighted. This will call for the game to turn to a game which will have Dragons on one side and EVERY other race on another. As I pointed out before why have Dragon/Biped interaction at all if that is the exclusivity you are seeking?

As of right now a Dragon can not CAST a single spell unless it has Primal for the requirement. Bipeds are also limited. They need to join a particular school and gain the knowledge to cast a spell with those requirements.

Crafting items in game go through the same limitations. Join a school and learn to craft items related to that school. Spellcrafting used to be one of those schools. Learn Spellcrafting and you could craft any spell you want for any of the races and adventure schools. With these two new spell formulas, all they call for is Spellcrafting but the developers have decided to add a limitation of only a Dragon being able to scribe and craft them. I am not calling for anyone else other than Dragons being able to USE the spells but I call for the reversal of this decision and put back the ability for ALL Spellcrafters to craft these spells.

[Zexoin]

Shur, what's the point to have exclusivity for dragon spells ? It's something that only dragons can use anyway, so for dragons it wouldn't change anything. I'd be happy if we are given something that bipeds use but can be only crafted by us, much like bipeds do with food. That, would make sense.