Upcoming Changes for dragons

[Sayamie]

On the more positive side, I've decided that Khutit needs some prettying up... From here on, anytime you are in Khutit you will be wearing this:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/pre...4/80016687.JPG



Heheh... kidding.

I'll take it

It would look kind of funny

[Vahrokh]

Having more choices, more decisions to make, is a good thing and creates interactivity

Sorry for being nitpicky, but how does removing free skills and turning them into expense skills make it more interactive? In my humble opinion, more interactive would be to have X free skills and pressing an activating button (like perfect spell + spell) make them hit i.e. 3 times harder at a cost in hoard.

So we'd keep the free skills for long grind sessions (i.e. 500 marble golems) without falling asleep due to just 5 buttons being available and at the same time we'd have the "oomph" for emergency situations, tier 5+ ghosts / zombies etc, bosses.

[Silverblaze]

Um, gold shield helps us tank...we really dont need another damage shield, if it only takes some damage away...why not make it like spirit walk? Only, 3 hits??? not really a tanking ability... Half damage for a period of time is way better than the proposed change...feels like a nerf to me.

[Silverblaze]

In regards to haord cost...its easy to get more hoard...easy. I can't stress that enough.

[Justa Mirage]

It was suggested in the Chaos dragon channel (and a suggestion from a while long ago) to make spiked scales as long as Cloak of Thorns (15 mins)

Bipeds have it easy, it doesn't cost them any cash to use Ethereal leech or any other drain spells, nor does it cost them money to use a Flurry attack or triple damage with epic equipment at 5-10K a hit.

I think, if you are going to add a "number of hits" to gold shield, to Tier it... make it 3 hits at tier 2, 4 hits at tier 3, 5 hits at tier 4, and 6 hits at tier 5 (because you know Avalanche and frenzied bite have more than 3 attacks to them)

just my 2cp worth.

[Silverblaze]

It was suggested in the Chaos dragon channel (and a suggestion from a while long ago) to make spiked scales as long as Cloak of Thorns (15 mins)

Bipeds have it easy, it doesn't cost them any cash to use Ethereal leech or any other drain spells, nor does it cost them money to use a Flurry attack or triple damage with epic equipment at 5-10K a hit.

I think, if you are going to add a "number of hits" to gold shield, to Tier it... make it 3 hits at tier 2, 4 hits at tier 3, 5 hits at tier 4, and 6 hits at tier 5 (because you know Avalanche and frenzied bite have more than 3 attacks to them)

just my 2cp worth.

Agreed, but why make it a number of hits at all? Shield of Gold wasn't broken...why fix it? If it is considered overpowered...just make it like spirit walk or equivalent?

will spiked scales stack with shield of gold, cuz as it stands, turning both on and a breeze... is a great way to farm. really imo the only way to farm.

I am really against this change and hope I can rally enough support to get the Shield of Gold to stay the same. I really like msot of the changes to dragons, I do...but this one this one will really change the way dragons play. Some say change is good...not this one.

[Creme]

Ditto on the hoard.

Way too easy to get now and very quickly.

Old days when mobs rarely dropped hoard and there was hoard leak it might have warranted some complaints, but I don't see how anyone can complain about paying hoard fees for better attacks/abilities.

Not pleased with the change to gold shield; we already get a damage shield and it's on a pretty fast recycle.

[Deth]

I do not think the consider it over powered so much as never used. Unless it is an epic fight. They are moving it to a more used in most battles line I think.

[Silverblaze]

I use it daily on my dragon...people can tank over 20-30 mobs with it on...then loot...all ...that...hoard... or comps etc. it doesnt drain that much hoard.

maybe make a new abilty for this upcoming mechanic?

It may not be up for discussion or able to be changed but...I hope thats not the case.

[Deth]

Ah ok. I never hear of anyone using it so did not know people used it that way.

[lightning claw]

GS will still mitigate damage, but at half the previous cost (1.5 hoard per point). It will also return 150% of damage done to the attacker as primal damage. It will last for three hits or sixty seconds, and has a 90 second recycle.
.

Where was i when this happened this is going to hurt 3 hits Heck Frenzy bite and sog is done
other list of multis that are way to nasty for this

I Use it every time i log in its used at least once


Ravangers multi
Fire golem
Umarry
Hehdon
Named t 5 gem golems
abominations of you name them the list goes on


PLEAS Leave SOG = Sheald of gold
alone !

[Silverblaze]

Where was i when this happened this is going to hurt 3 hits Heck Frenzy bite and sog is done
other list of multis that are way to nasty for this

I Use it every time i log in its used at least once


Ravangers multi
Fire golem
Umarry
Hehdon
Named t 5 gem golems
abominations of you name them the list goes on


PLEAS Leave SOG = Sheald of gold
alone !

Not the words I would've used but i have to agree wholeheartedly, I'll cry if ya take my shield of gold away...(not really) please don't make me cry

[RuneDragoon]

On the more positive side, I've decided that Khutit needs some prettying up... From here on, anytime you are in Khutit you will be wearing this:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/pre...4/80016687.JPG



Heheh... kidding.

I should use caution when peeking at images for I may end up on the floor from an inability to stop laughing.

on a different note, shield of gold (while it has saved my butt dive bombing for satyr isle silver) is now actually possibly useful from what I see.

[Akuluxtraxas]

Shield of Gold change is imo very badly designed. currently its a powerful defensive ability that we can rely on to see us through a tough fight or extra adds or similar. I use it often and i have no problem paying its hoard cost. I believe in value for cost and when i use gold shield it does what i want of it. The proposed change makes it useless against reg solo mobs as they hit very low on average.

In addition mobs can use skills in varying order. while some tend to lean towards certain sequences its random other times. you cannot guess and that makes the ability possibly a waste on 3 normal swings.

My 3rd point is why a damage shield? we have spiked scales which btw is extremely effecient even with a recycle. We have tons of damage output. what other powerful defensive skills do dragons have? none whatsoever. Based on that conversation last night..adding content should fulfill a need and the proposed change does not do that whatsoever. I am not against tweaking abilities but I think gold shield needs to be left be or if changed made into a unique and useful defensive skill that fills that need it has served us.

Please do not turn a great ability that some use to save themselves or groups into an ability that many will barely use. I know for me most mobs survive my rage if lucky..for those pondering its usefulness..just look at a dragon's skill set. Our only true defensive talent is in need of protection..and the lore aspect of it also is refreshing..being able to stand strong in the face of great odds is what a dragon is about. I sign a petition to leave gold shield as is.

[Silverblaze]

made a thread for gold shield please read and post there as well.

I like to use shield of gold and menacing presence to tank for groups or save allies.

maybe I need a rez after...or maybe I look like a stud

Either way I saved the rest fo the group.

[LaughingOtter]

Please keep the comments on Shield of Gold in this thread, thanks.

I'd like to point out that Shield of Gold is a very polarizing ability - generally people either love it or hate it. To me, that says that it heavily favors some styles of play more than others. Akul's comment that it fills the need of a strong defensive ability is, I feel, half-right. It fills that need for some.

The new version of GS is intended to be a more versitile, less monolithic defensive ability. From the comments expressed, obviously some feel it still needs work. What I'm curious about, though, is the resistance to the change itself. Are there ways the original version of GS could be changed to make it more useful to a broader base of playstyles, without losing the "dragon-ness" of it? Are there ways the new version could be tweaked or improved?

[Silverblaze]

I only made a new thread so that the matter would be noticed by all, my apologies first and foremost.

The old ability is fine in my opinion. Many are distressed overthe cost...its really not that much.

Perhaps decrease the recycle timer? Or introduce a quest to decrease the timer maybe upgrade the ability? Find a way to introduce a new bility that functions as the new one is desired to.

I normally will adapt to a new change. I however must be obstinate in this and only this matter. Perhaps I should cut and paste what i said in my new thread...located in ...rants now, of all places.

In any case, I don;'t see why hte old ability should be changed, I think those who designed it originally had hte right idea. Dragons need a way to mitigate damage. 3 hits even abilities is simply insufficient. The damage it does is also while nifty, just anotehr damage shield, that likely doesn't stack with spiked scales.

We are already weapons of mass destruction offensively. But with the mythos of dragon scales being harder than steel...well I'm not so sure that is represented by the new ability. I say new ability, becuase it is very different and far more limited than the old one.

I really do not like this change. If the only complaint about Shield of Gold is hoard cost...i can make sure people know a few good ways to build hoard very effectively. Hopefully that will make shield of gold usable again.

I for one, use it daily.

I'd like to add a bit of a apology atthe end also. The rest of the changes to dragons by and large have been good, the proposed changes to dragon have been good. I simply despise this one, with a fiery passion.

[Akuluxtraxas]

My biggest concern with new version is duration. Im not saying its a terrible ability nor do i in any way disagree its not used by many. as for suggestions.

First off we all can agree hoard cost is the factor likely limiting its use. that was adressed in the change but at a major cost of duration. Is the hoard cost the only issue? maybe others posting can chime in on that as a start to getting ideas for modifications.

Personally i love it as is but with many not using it here are ideas i would ask the community about.

reduce the hoard to 2-1 flat. would this make it too good for its cost? its currently 3-1 so maybe a cost reduction might make it more appealing.

possibly scale the effect by level but in duration not hits taken. Hits taken is such a random and questionable value. with the 2-1 cost scale duration maybe 3 times or at ancient.

possibly make the new version a duration although short like 10 seconds vs 60. possibly very powerful but if the goal is utilization that would certainly imo reach it.

I will think of better suggestions but my main thoughts are. Something defined and reliable. I prefer to know it will be effective and not rely on luck. luck when pulling multiple mobs or named mobs is not usually popular.

Something that holds is roots defensively. Dont make it more offensive as dragons have a lot of firepower. keep to its form as dragons will really use a good defensive skill.

Timers arent always bad. A longer timer is usually ok if the ability makes a significant impact. such as battle ressurection.

As i said above my biggest concern is the fact crrently while a bit expensive it is an ability i can rely on and use when i need to hold my ground. the new version should also give that feeling. to me currently it does not but i think before long there will be some great ideas in this thread alone.

Ill let others on live know to check this out too and give their thoughts=)

[Vahrokh]

Prehamble

I am totally convinced and have continuous proofs that the developers are fantastic people and they are committed at improving the game.

I am also totally convinced that there are better ways to prove us how much you want to change and improve the game than touching some foundation skills like gold rage for the sake of giving us a sign that you want to change the game.

Dragons have good skills that cost a lot and so are less used... that are worth such cost and related low use. These are worth such cost and needed.

No one honestly cares of drain strike, it "sucked" before, it'll "suck" after and is so way secondary it doesn't have any impact on where surviving counts.
But gold shield is high in the care meter, it's a life and group saver now, and will become just some crappy "lol I AoE farm golems faster" later whilst losing all the tactical value it has today.

From some one killing Giant Ice beetles for 20 min they got 20 trophies and 15 hoardables. So maybe you want to try hunting them for a while.

It closely reminds me of when I played WoW: they developers would nerf / change into worse something and someone would post how doing X would counter that.
1-2 patches later, X would be nerfed to useless.
Where is it written that in 2 patches ice beetles / wolves are not completely gutted and won't drop any more hoard than Parsinia's bronze golems? Where is the official statement that ice beetles will stay overpowered forever?
Because ice beetles are not working well, they are an *anomaly* of too much dropping mob and I don't see a single reason to leave them like that.
Once brought back to normal all those who find farming hoard so easy (usually backed up with 190 rating druid that not all have) will find it harder.

Half damage for a period of time is way better than the proposed change...feels like a nerf to me.

It is a nerf. I have no idea on how to survive to heavy multistrike nameds after this goes in game.

but I don't see how anyone can complain about paying hoard fees for better attacks/abilities.

Drain strike was mediocre before and stayed mediocre even with more cost.
I can see how anyone can complain about paying hoard for transforming decent free attacks into.... paid decent attacks.
If a thing has to cost hoard, make it strong. If gold shield costs a lot but permits what it permits today, watering it down to cheap but weak won't make it suddenly good.

Sure, the "abilities in games usage" statistical counter will go up, as it becomes an "everyday" often used skill, but the importance of the skill will drop tenfold.

It'd be fine if we also got a new "defense" skill to replace it with, but we won't.

Where was i when this happened this is going to hurt 3 hits Heck Frenzy bite and sog is done
other list of multis that are way to nasty for this
I Use it every time i log in its used at least once

Ravangers multi
Fire golem
Umarry
Hehdon
Named t 5 gem golems
abominations of you name them the list goes on

PLEAS Leave SOG = Sheald of gold

This is exactly what I talk about. I don't want to just have the option to press "recall to ress" when Mhedon attacks me.

I'd like to point out that Shield of Gold is a very polarizing ability - generally people either love it or hate it. To me, that says that it heavily favors some styles of play more than others. Akul's comment that it fills the need of a strong defensive ability is, I feel, half-right. It fills that need for some

It's our "oh ****" button. Normally sits unused because of the cost (the cost is exactly here to avoid a powerful ability being spammed) but when in a group or being "ninja" attacked by a named it's priceless and loved.
I am totally against making it different. We HAVE a damage shield so it'd be redundant, we don't have defensive skills and you are taking away the only thing coming close.

I suggest to Amon to do the following:

- Create a typical level 100, 15M hoard dragon.
- Go Elnath.
- Farm what I had to few days ago: 20 Veteran Ghost vapors, 20 Veteran Abomination Chest Skull, 20 Blue Vexator Fringe.

Everything, everything I said, I say and will say will become immediately, instantly clear with no further spamming the forums by me (long, boring, tiresome for me and most of all, for you).

What I'm curious about, though, is the resistance to the change itself. Are there ways the original version of GS could be changed to make it more useful to a broader base of playstyles, without losing the "dragon-ness" of it? Are there ways the new version could be tweaked or improved?

GS has this perk: it's the one dragon survival tool. It's why there's resistance.
Now, we got removed off the possibility to have the "0% damage" triple teched scale and of the stun scale.
Can you pretty, humbly please explain me how to survive a Mhedon-like mob without gold shield? I have a crush resistant set now. Now that I am ancient, wealthy, with hoard blah blah. And all the other dragons that can't?

First off we all can agree hoard cost is the factor likely limiting its use.

While by now it's very clear and known how I don't like converting the begeesus of us into hoard burning machines, I am completely fine with the GS high hoard cost design.
It's very dragon-like. Costs a lot, is worth a lot. I can willingly burn a lot of hoard because the situation requires so. Once without the choice, I can't burn a lot of hoard and solve an important situation.
Trivializing the one strong defense we have into "another farm tool" won't make me more group viable. Won't make me a better tank, just a better farm *alt*.
I am one of those who does not want to have a 160 rated druid main that levels a dragon alt, twinks it, gives 30M hoard and calls everything fine and easy for the dragons, use the dragon to farm trophies at easy mobs with new gold shield to level the 10th class to 100 on his main.

possibly make the new version a duration although short like 10 seconds vs 60. possibly very powerful but if the goal is utilization that would certainly imo reach it.

It has to last enough to deal with the current "not perfect" implementation of the game. Yesterday at Metal NPC Cenotaph I'd get down to half HP ("lag / packets meter" on 1-2 max, ping < 100) without attacks even appearing on the combat log.
If the game content got hard hitters performing "avalanche" or whatever in X time, the shield duration should account for X + an human and server and client technology compatible margin.

[Antonath]

For those saying that hoard is easy to come by:

Everyone's talking about Giant Ice Beetles dropping tons of hoardables. What level are they? Because if you need to be high-level to fight them, you've totally missed the point. I think far too many level-100 Ancient dragons are weighing in on this after looking at their own hoard levels - those at lower levels have far less hoard to put into things like Shield of Gold. 250k to take the RoP is still an actual target to be reached rather than something you get to at about the right level, even with the high hoard value items introduced since then.

As for the changes to Shield of Gold:

I like it. The main problem I've had with it (and the reason I've never hotkeyed it) is the massive hoard drain. The new version seems to solve that, and adding the returned damage is even better. My only problem is the 3-hit limit - that could probably be raised. I like the suggestion of the number of hits going up in tiers, although as it's an ability gained at Adulthood that might be hard to implement.

Edit: Hmm, I hadn't considered the current SoG in terms of end-game content. Ok, then this is a potentially major loss of survivability.