Request for School Bugs/Issues

[Terao]

I took a look on some of the bipeds abilities, and use those as an example maybe someone else could write down the missing ones. All race abilities are splitted in one active and one passive part.

Dryad
Dryad Dazzle, 200% base evasion, 200% base magic evasion
duration: 0:30
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Dryad Codnizance, 104% base power

Dwarf
Dwarven Toughness, Incoming attacks does 0% of normal damage
duration: 0:30
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Enhanced Armor Use, +5 armor use

Gnome
Gnomian Powress, -50% delay
duration: 0:30
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Enhanced Evasion, +5 evasion

Half Giant
Giant Daze, auto hit debuff -15 block, parry, dodge +35% delay
duration: 0:30
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Increase Health, +10 health

Satyr
Satyr Charge, auto hit stun
duration: 0:12
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Satyr Freedom, root spells -100% chance to hit

Sslik
Sslik Regeneration, 10% of HP every 0:06
duration: 1:00
recycle: 5:00

passive:
Innate Armor, +5 armor

I would suggest to change all passive abilities to % increases instead of fixed values, like the dryad one that gives +104% power, adding +5 evasion, +10 health or +5 armor is just a joke.

The dwarven passive ability should be changed to increase slash, crush and pierce resistance (or armor), armor use is useless.

The active ability of half giant and satyr should be redone to something more usefull, just think on the power that -50% delay of the gnome ability gives or the dryad dazzle, or they should get an extra ability

I'd like to see racial quests for all races, my suggestion:

Every 20th lvl a quest that gives an increase to passive ability, f.e. gnome:
lvl 0: 100% base evasion
lvl 20: 102% base evasion
lvl 40: 104% base evasion
lvl 60: 106% base evasion
lvl 80: 108% base evasion
lvl 100: 110% base evasion

Every 20th lvl a quest that gives some active abilities, f.e. gnome:
lvl 10: Gnomian Powress, -30% delay duration: 0:30 recycle: 5:00 (the actual active ability)
lvl 30: Gnomian Evasion, +50 evasion, duration: 1:00, recycle 2:00
lvl 50: Gnomian Dodge, +25 dodge, duration: 1:00, recycle 2:00
lvl 70: Gnomian flee, +25 speed, duration: 1:00, recycle 5:00
lvl 90: Gnomian Hide, +75 evasion, +40 dodge, duration: 1:00, recycle: 5:00

[Garfonso]

To carry on with that list a bit:

Saris
Saris Sprint, +40 Speed,
Duration: 0:30
Recycle: 5:00
(Does not stack with normal sprint)

passive:
Enhanced Life Magic +10 Life Skill

Human
Human Magical Aptitude, for Spells +35% chance to hit
Duration: 0:30
Recycle: 5:00

Enhanced Magic Defense, +5 Magic Evasion


Both passive abilities are just a joke and have just no effect.

The extra sprint for saris is a very nice gimmic. Of course it has not a real positive effect on battles, like the abilities of dryad, dwarf and gnome, but it saved the life of my cat not just once... And it's useful for crafting, too (must be the only race ability?), especially with that new speed of cargo discs.

Honestly I mostly never use "Human Magical Aptitude", even not when beging to cast a spell. This ability is just not worth the 40 delay (which is quite high) it takes to use it. My point of view.

I'd like to see those abilities like the enhanced life Magic or human magical aptitude changed into something that is useful for all schools. Life Magic will only help healing schools and human magical aptitutde will give nothing to meele fighters. The satyr freedom is a very good example of a useful passive ability, that has equal use to any school one can think to do with that character.

[gopher65]

I thought this was a thread about schools, but since people are talking about abilities I'll continue on that thread for a moment.

Both Human Magical Aptitude (HMA) and Human Enhanced Magical Defence (EMD) are a joke.

Perfect spell is mastered by absolutely everybody in the game about 5 minutes after they create their first character. That renders Human Magical Aptitude completely useless. But even if Perfect Spell wasn't there, HMA would still be useless. I've tried using it, and it has too little effect for too short a time, too long a casting time, and far, far too long a recycle time. It isn't worth using, ever.

EMD is really cool, but it is only +5. When you have 1500 magic evasion that +5 increase is only 1/3 of one percent. Ummm... yeah. That does nothing. It's fine for the first 10 levels, but after that it might as well not be there.

These two abilities are especially useless when other races get things like Dwarven Toughness, Dryad Dazzle, Gnomian Prowess, and ... what's that Fiend ability? Reflect something or other. It allows you to reflect an attack back on the caster. It is a powerful ability if you are astute enough to use it properly.

Anyway, all the abilities need to be % based and not absolute. +5 *anything* is going to be useless at level 100, whereas +5% (or whatever) would be highly useful.

[Steele]

I strongly agree with converting some of the +5/+10 passive abilities to % based, so they more appropriately scale in usefulness. Great idea!

I'm not so sure that the AU boost is useless... if you don't multi-class something that gives 10AU/level all the way up to L91+, that extra AU does come in handy for wearing better armor a bit sooner. You're probably right tho about S/P/C resist though; that would be rather useful.

Dwarven Toughness remains very powerful and very useful, though keep in mind it mitigates only melee-based attacks; spells still get through in spades - I was reminded of that over the weekend.

Not to bring this post back in-line with the OP or anything, hehe, but there's a few spells and abilities that don't quite mesh imo - I'm at work so I'll try to rely on memory instead on what I have written down (I've been meaning to post this for weeks now):

Dispirit Foe... "Decreases a single target's melee attack speed" has some major stacking issues with other debuffs.
-- It's overwritten, and blocked, by the Shocked energy spell techniques (which have lesser effect, lesser duration).
-- It's overwritten by Sorcerer ability Disconcert (Dispirit reduces
Suggestions: Dispirit should very clearly take precedence over the Shocked techniques.

Disconcert... Either this description is wrong, or the ability is bugged. "Gives all spells and abilities that use mind damage a chance to put a hostile augmentation on target that will lower power, focus, and spell delay times"
-- Minor flaw in description: it actually increases spell delay times.
-- Disconcert is triggered by Spellbind, Numbing Haze, Warped Perception, Daunting Mist and Debase... all spells or abilities which are Mind-based but do NOT do "mind damage" as the description states.
-- This ability is extremely un-group friendly because of it overwrites and prevents Dispirit (much more commonly used and arguably much more useful); unlike Dispirit, Sorc's have NO control over when it fires.
Suggestions: 1) Make Disconcert into a manually triggered ability, just as Dispirit is, instead of a random proc. 2) Change Dispirit so that it is a melee-only delay debuff (I thought I've observed it actually affecting spells also - casting times, maybe?), to facilitate stacking with Disconcert. 3) Alter stacking code to facilitate spellcaster-only delay debuffs stacking with Dispirit.

These changes would make Disconcert into a wonderful compliment to Dispirit, instead of a reason for every Cleric/Healer I know to hate me.

Junction techs... I recently re-tech'd my Tier4 Energy bolts with Junction IV (because Shocked techs make my Dispirit-casting wife hate me; see above), but I haven't noticed any chat-line indication that the Junction proc actually fires. I also haven't noticed significant changes to damage when using my Fine Mithril Maul + Energy Attack IV.
Suggestions: Maybe a chat-line indication could be given for when the proc is applied? This would also help verify that the tech is actually working.

On a relate note, would it be possible to add an Energy spell in the same vein as Sear and Freeze? Energy is currently the only "Arcane-based" spell school that does not have a resistance debuffing spell.

I'm sure there's more but I need to consult my notes at home. I'll add more later (I hope).

[tjl]

On a relate note, would it be possible to add an Energy spell in the same vein as Sear and Freeze? Energy is currently the only "Arcane-based" spell school that does not have a resistance debuffing spell.

I would agree. energy could use 1 more spell to use in the rotation, and a debuff would be a good choice. (or a DoT)

there is an energy tech called junction, which has a decent chance to lower energy resistance by 30%. however it would have the annoying stackablity issues just like sear and the cinder tech do for flame spells. (and chill tech vs freeze spell)

[Terao]

Melee Flurry overwrites Unbridled Energy, I think this shouln't happen.

The other way around Unbridled Energy doesn't overwrite Melee Flurry, this will cause an error message: Unbridled Energy failed because XYZ has Melee Flurry.

[AmonGwareth]

Melee Flurry overwrites Unbridled Energy,

they are both hastes, which is why this happens.

[Steele]

...both hastes? Flurry does not change delay as far as I know; it only adds atacks-per-round at the cost of damage-per-attack.

Or are you approaching this from the angle of (increased # of attacks) per (X unit of time) = "haste"?

Personally speaking as a L100 CHSW main, I think that stacking flurry and UE would be very overpowering; I just want to make sure we understand what you mean.

[Steele]

Dispirit Foe... "Decreases a single target's melee attack speed" has some major stacking issues with other debuffs.
-- It's overwritten, and blocked, by the Shocked energy spell techniques (which have lesser effect, lesser duration).
-- It's overwritten by Sorcerer ability Disconcert (Dispirit reduces
Suggestions: Dispirit should very clearly take precedence over the Shocked techniques.

Disconcert... Either this description is wrong, or the ability is bugged. "Gives all spells and abilities that use mind damage a chance to put a hostile augmentation on target that will lower power, focus, and spell delay times"
-- Minor flaw in description: it actually increases spell delay times.
-- Disconcert is triggered by Spellbind, Numbing Haze, Warped Perception, Daunting Mist and Debase... all spells or abilities which are Mind-based but do NOT do "mind damage" as the description states.
-- This ability is extremely un-group friendly because of it overwrites and prevents Dispirit (much more commonly used and arguably much more useful); unlike Dispirit, Sorc's have NO control over when it fires.
Suggestions: 1) Make Disconcert into a manually triggered ability, just as Dispirit is, instead of a random proc. 2) Change Dispirit so that it is a melee-only delay debuff (I thought I've observed it actually affecting spells also - casting times, maybe?), to facilitate stacking with Disconcert. 3) Alter stacking code to facilitate spellcaster-only delay debuffs stacking with Dispirit.

These changes would make Disconcert into a wonderful compliment to Dispirit, instead of a reason for every Cleric/Healer I know to hate me.

I've noticed something for the first time, and attached a cropped screenie with the Details windows of both abilities... there seems to be no distinction to specify melee delay vs. spellcasting delay; they're modifying the same attribute.

If "Delay" can not be separated out into two distinct attributes (for instance, Melee Delay and Spellcasting Delay), then perhaps rework their stacking priority such that the stronger modifier and manually triggered Dispirit takes precedence over Disconcert? Having two distinct attributes would allow for more robust encounters though, so I hope it can be done.

My observations and suggestions for Disconcert still stand though... assuming "Delay" can be distilled out into two distinct attributes. If not, then I'll need to rethink things a bit; in the short term though, please change it to be subordinate to Dispirit?

[Terao]

they are both hastes, which is why this happens.

I'd like to suggest that a error message is printed like it is the other way around.

[AmonGwareth]

I'd like to suggest that a error message is printed like it is the other way around.

why? Its not an error

[Terao]

The other way around Unbridled Energy doesn't overwrite Melee Flurry, this will cause an error message: Unbridled Energy failed because XYZ has Melee Flurry.

On one way we get a message, the other way not? Sorry but this is not logic to me, and in battle you sometimes hit the buttons fast...

[Deth]

I would guess that Melee Flurry is a better ability and as a higher weight in the system so that it will over write Unbridled Energy but not the other way around. Abilities of the same type are weighted so that lower weighted abilities get overwritten by higher weighted items.

[Steele]

"Better ability"? Better is relative depending on situational need.

According to their stated in-game descriptions they don't even modify the same attribute... this is why I posted requesting clarification: post #48 in this thread.

I consider myself generally intelligent (I know some will disagree, but se la vie) and I enjoy exploring game mechanics - if this is specific ability interaction is confusing to me, I'm sure it's befuddling the heck out of a bunch of other people. Reminder: I do not have an issue with the current nature of their interaction.

I think I understand why it's happening but clarification of whether or not I was on the right track would be greatly appreciated, for the benefit of many. At least if I know I understand it I can confidently re-translate/explain to others.

[AmonGwareth]

Because they both have the "haste" keyword and so they conflict. They each have an assigned weight and Melee Flurry has a greater one.

[Steele]

Aaaaaaaah, I think I understand! It isn't really dependent on what the abilities actually do, but more about how they are classified via keywords in the database...

So it would follow then that in addition to a keyword, there's also some sort of weight, or a priority number, assigned to each effect... so if multiple effects contain the same classification/keyword, the application looks at them, compares the priority numbers, and uses them to decide which effect needs to take precedence over another.

I can see how that would open up a can of worms if abilities need to be re-prioritized/re-weighted... especially if those values need to be input & updated manually.

I feel kinda silly for not understanding this before now. Just needed the lightbulb moment, I guess.

Thank you, Amon!

[Steele]

The other way around Unbridled Energy doesn't overwrite Melee Flurry, this will cause an error message: Unbridled Energy failed because XYZ has Melee Flurry.

On one way we get a message, the other way not? Sorry but this is not logic to me, and in battle you sometimes hit the buttons fast...

Terao, it would seem that since these two abilities share the same effect classification, and Melee Flurry has a higher weight/priority than Unbridled Energy, the game will always allow Melee Flurry to take precedence over Unbridled Energy. Therefore, you'll only get an error message when MF is already active and the game unsuccessfully tries to replace it with UE.

If you don't like the current weighting/priority of MF vs UE, and stacking them is not an option (it really would be rather overpowering, and I'd rather not see an NPC boss ever able to stack them ), what would you like to suggest? In other words:

Would you rather see Unbridled Energy take precedence over Melee Flurry? (and why)

Would you rather see MF and UE overwrite each other, similar to the way Determination and Primal Roar function for Dragons? (not sure if this is possible; just trying to get an idea of what you would like to see)

[CallakDW]

While we are on the topic, I think it would be nice if Arcane refusal and Ignore misticism for dragons allways overrode each other, currently one will override the other but not the other way around, instead it cancels the spell I don't remember which is which right now though.

Also, I might add that the counterspell other penalty is dispellable using purify.

[Dakoren Ironhand]

I don't know if this has been reported but "Swift Feet V" overwrites "Nature's Path". Nature's Path adds 25 run speed but Swift Feet V only adds 14 run speed.

Is it possible that this can be changed, so Nature's Path overwrites Swift Feet V.

Also giving the Half Giants a usefull ability wouldnt hurt.

[Favoran]

While we are on the topic, I think it would be nice if Arcane refusal and Ignore misticism for dragons allways overrode each other, currently one will override the other but not the other way around, instead it cancels the spell I don't remember which is which right now though.

Also, I might add that the counterspell other penalty is dispellable using purify.

Ignore Mysticism is always overwritten by a same-tier Arcane Refusal.