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Thread: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

  1. #1
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    Default DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Is it just me or does the way that dragons are utterly dependant on bipeds for a lot of the quests and other aspects of the game seem just a little unfair? Take Bailit's quest for example. Like dozens of other quests that can be taken by dragons, we need to go begging to bipeds for stuff that only bipeds can make and are relient entirely on their generosity and the vague hope that one of them is going to decide to help. You can be waiting for HOURS sometimes (and other times just give up and go away entirely), which is not a good thing for anyone with time constraints. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, not only does it go against everything in the game lore, from Primal magic being the whole and not an aspect of magic like biped skills, to the dragon diffidence towards other cultures. Then there are the gameplay issues too- its downright annoying having to grovel on marketplace whenever you hit the roadblock of not being able to DIY.

    Quests are not th only areas that dragons lose out in. Lets face it- in the arena, the smart money goes on a biped every time. They have more powerful and a greater variety of spells, better armour protection, tenfold more healing spells, better evasion and their abilities dont cost a ton of hoard to use. The Demon Claw, an epic dragon weapon, hits for a max damage of 75. A fine mithril two handed sword hits for a minimum of 83, without any techs or crystals. Bipeds have a multitude of adventure and craft schools that they can level endlessly and achieve an insanely high rating whereas when a dragon finishes ARoP and hits level 100 thats the end of the road and you might as well start a new charachter. And then the deathpoint fade time was jacked up to a full day and yet again dragons have no way of relieving deathpoints except to buy from bipeds. Is it just me or is a sight trend emerging here?

    Really, im not expecting miracles, but a little bit of parity would be nice. Maybe for once the bipeds could be reliant on a dragon for something rather than the other way around. There was the plague thing years ago, but that was a disaster if memory serves, and nothing like it has ever been repeated. It would be nice to see a dragons combat abilities brought up to scratch too, maybe with a new adventure school. I cant count the number of times I've been happily chomping on giant ice beetles when a biped who can actually deal with large scale mob aggro has walked along and pulled the entire field and killed the lot of them without even a 'sorry, were you busy?'. And as though we werent bad enough already its going to cost bucket loads of hoard soon to use all our attacks. The recent gift and healing spell work brilliantly, and i was delighted to start using them, but they dont amount to a great deal in the grand scheme of things. It was a drop of water in the desert of inadiquacy. Seriously, something needs to be done and more proposed nerfs are not the answer.

    Please, share your views here. If you have an opinion add it!

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  2. #2

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Confectioner School:

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.

    You also have a T6 mob Bipeds can not get to: Monsoon on Drakul.


    I hope this does not become another Dragon vs. Biped thread. We have had enough of those.
    Last edited by Hoberton; May 26th, 2008 at 04:25 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoberton View Post
    Confectioner School:

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.

    You also have a T6 mob Bipeds can not get to: Monsoon on Drakul.
    ooh! ooh! little insignificant bits of nothing that dragons can get and bipeds cant! all is balanced!

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    It's some years I stopped believing that pissing in 'peds shoes is the best way for dragons to achieve anything.
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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Well, to be honest I quite agree with Melanth; the bipeds ARE a lot stronger. I know we have things like gold rage and spiked scales, but bipedial races can always match or better anything dragon's have.

    Confectioner School:

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.

    You also have a T6 mob Bipeds can not get to: Monsoon on Drakul.
    ooh! ooh! little insignificant bits of nothing that dragons can get and bipeds cant! all is balanced!
    I agree with you there Shur. If you think about it, dragons might as well not have exclusive access to the herbs considering it's no use anyway because dragons can't be confectioners. So from that all they have is a mob. :/

    But I think rather than being angry it'd be more constructive to think about what might help to better balance the races. I know the devs have been giving dragons more abilities lately, but I don't like the idea of most abilities costing hoard, as linked as it is with dragons. Just because bipeds have no hoard, and therefore no real restrictions on using their most powerful abilities whenever they like. :/

    But I'm also assuming the most powerful biped abilities have a huge wait for the recycle, so maybe the hoard expenditure for things like gold rage might be worth it's short recycle. Hmm... :O

    That reminds me: a shorter recycle on Primal Rebirth would be great. I hear it takes an hour, which is apparently longer than biped's recycle. :/ Well, I think the rebirth spells should be the same anyhow.

    Oh no, I'm rambling. O.o;

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoberton View Post
    Confectioner School:

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.

    You also have a T6 mob Bipeds can not get to: Monsoon on Drakul.

    what food can you craft with this 2 integents?

    whats this mob? Monsoon? a named one?

  7. #7

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Take Bailit's quest for example.
    When I did that quest, I had to go begging for someone with the right skills to help me. And there are quests that require dragon aid - attuning to draak springs to mind. I also recall during the plague bipeds chasing down dragons for help...

    I do think it would be fun to have more quests though, that everyone can complete equally easily. :-)

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlisson View Post

    whats this mob? Monsoon? a named one?

    Lunus ARoP monster.

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Really moved to tears. I think dragons are very brave. Reading the OP I can't help wondering why anyone would even bother to play a dragon, it seems awful, hardship struggling through a life full of harassment.

    I agree with one thing, dragons shouldn't be allowed to take on any quests they can't complete themselves without the oppressive help of those unpleasant bipeds.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    What bugs me mostly that you have to beg a biped for a steel rune stylus and a mithrill stylus for your Khutit quest/ARoP. That should be really changed...

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoberton View Post
    Confectioner School:

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.

    You also have a T6 mob Bipeds can not get to: Monsoon on Drakul.
    that is just two ingredients of the 50 odd that are now availiable. its not as though people are chasing dragons down for them. Drakul has nothing on it that a biped would be interested in anyways, no houses, no real resources and the mobs there can also be found on IoF. Monsoon the wind golem can also be found near Old Rachival hanging out with the storm ogres and bipeds dont need him for a quest in any case.

    I dont mind having to rely on bipeds for a set quest, such as ARoP where its built into the quest proper and is an actual part of the lore, but where having to beg for materials we cant make is included and the glaring disparity between dragon and biped abilities is concerned i would really like to see dragons made independant.


    Galdethriel: yea, the recycle on primal rebirth is an hour and i heard (not canon, just a rumor) that it was soon going to be an hour and a half. It also costs 2500 hoard every use. Biped ressurect recycles in 30 seconds i think it is and doesnt cost them anything. The only advantage there is that dragon rez removes the deathpoint and biped rez doesnt.
    Melanath- level 100 ADV/ 60 DCRA -
    Shas Mackard- Saris Berserker/Outfitter et al

    For Lunus, for Dralk! Death before Dishonour!

  12. #12

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoberton

    I hope this does not become another Dragon vs. Biped thread. We have had enough of those.
    Well, by the looks of the other posts, it has. No good will come from this thread. All it will become is anger and resentment. This is nothing but a rant and should be moved to that area.

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Takora Drakan View Post
    What bugs me mostly that you have to beg a biped for a steel rune stylus and a mithrill stylus for your Khutit quest/ARoP. That should be really changed...

    yes, I agree, that's a weird requirement. It should be a claw of some sort or a scale.

    Hurray! Mor
    rison is back at his house near Bristugo!
    And the wisps on wis
    p isle are moving again!
    If you can't see 'em, you know you've got proper invisible runes.


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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Galdethriel: yea, the recycle on primal rebirth is an hour and i heard (not canon, just a rumor) that it was soon going to be an hour and a half. It also costs 2500 hoard every use. Biped ressurect recycles in 30 seconds i think it is and doesnt cost them anything. The only advantage there is that dragon rez removes the deathpoint and biped rez doesnt.
    That's so unbalanced I'll have to use this smiley: Ohnoez it's angry. XD

    How about halving both the hoard requirement and the recycle time for the dragon rez; might be a start at getting them even. X/

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoberton View Post
    Well, by the looks of the other posts, it has. No good will come from this thread. All it will become is anger and resentment. This is nothing but a rant and should be moved to that area.
    who made you a moderator? if there are a lot of Dragon vs Biped threads thats because there are disparities that need to be taken care of to make gameplay fair. the only way to change the situation is to post and hope the Devs take note. If you dont like the thead dont follow it.
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    Shas Mackard- Saris Berserker/Outfitter et al

    For Lunus, for Dralk! Death before Dishonour!

  16. #16

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Two items Bipeds can not get: Mandrake on Drakul and Star Anise on the top of Mountain across the Northern Trandalar Ice Rift.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melanth View Post
    that is just two ingredients of the 50 odd that are
    Not only that, but the ingredients are used in a dragon-eat cake. I do appreciate the fact that dragons have to gather a resource for it.
    Last edited by Shian; May 26th, 2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: broke the quotes

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    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    What bugs me mostly that you have to beg a biped for a steel rune stylus and a mithrill stylus for your Khutit quest/ARoP. That should be really changed
    Ever considered why it's a stylus and not an axe? And why it's required there?

    I'll give an hint: a dragon chooses an optional path to deal with non dragons and become easier at interacting with them. The stylus is a symbol of that choice.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Lucky for you all I'm not a dev. If I was and I read this thread the first thing I'd do when I got in that morning would be to remove the "doable by dragon" tag from any quest that involved speaking to a biped NPC.

    As for the biped inaccessible content, I see nothing wrong with adding more of that. Provided that there are areas of the game where dragons aren't allowed to go. It needs to be balanced both ways.

    As for Primal Rebirth, since when are Dragons Healers??? They're not. They're big scary monsters with giant fangs and claws that like to rip smaller creatures apart limb from limb (I love doing that). They are skilled in the ways of magic, yes, but it is arcane style magic, not priest magic. Biped arcane magic users can't res at all, never mind once an hour. They'd kill for once an hour. Primal Rebirth is a 1 hour recycle, and the equivalent biped ability is available ONLY TO ONE CLASS (Healer, unmasterable), and is a 15 minute recycle. Given that Healer is the healing expert school, I'm surprised that the dragon ability is only 4 times more difficult to cast.

    However, that said, I think too many classes have access to too many spells. I'd remove resurrect (1 minute recycle btw, not 30second) from several classes. Druid, Ranger, Guardian, Storm Disciple, Spiristist, Reaver, Bloodmage (should get a special ability which reses and transfers most of their HP to the recipient), Spirit Disciple, and Shaman should have this spell removed from their list from an RP perspective, if that's what we're trying to design the game around. This would leave Pally, Cleric, and Healer as the only res classes, and I don't think that would be a bad thing (and Bloodmage having a special (dangerous) res ability). Dark Cyclone should only be available to Nature classes (Druid, Guardian, Storm Disciple, Ranger), and Fusion Burn (Mage ability) should be unmasterable.

    As I said, you should all be very, very glad that I'm not in charge. The nerfs (and a few buffs) would fly fast and furious, even to my own classes.

  19. #19

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
    Ever considered why it's a stylus and not an axe? And why it's required there?

    I'll give an hint: a dragon chooses an optional path to deal with non dragons and become easier at interacting with them. The stylus is a symbol of that choice.
    That may be for the Khutit quest, in the ARoP I have to bring a unfriendly fiend a mithrill rune stylus.. so it depends on the bipeds that a dragon can get Ancient?.. SEESCH!

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  20. #20

    Default Re: DLF: freedom from biped oppression!

    Quote Originally Posted by gopher65 View Post
    As for Primal Rebirth, since when are Dragons Healers??? They're not. They're big scary monsters with giant fangs and claws that like to rip smaller creatures apart limb from limb (I love doing that). They are skilled in the ways of magic, yes, but it is arcane style magic, not priest magic. Biped arcane magic users can't res at all, never mind once an hour. They'd kill for once an hour. Primal Rebirth is a 1 hour recycle, and the equivalent biped ability is available ONLY TO ONE CLASS (Healer, unmasterable), and is a 15 minute recycle. Given that Healer is the healing expert school, I'm surprised that the dragon ability is only 4 times more difficult to cast.
    Ever bothered to read the Lore? Do you know even about the Elder Dragon NPC "Forgot Name the Lifegiver"? There where Dragon healers in the past, we use primal to fight and also to heal.

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