Vengence Scale Tradition

[LaughingOtter]

At this point, I feel that any response I might make would only escalate matters further. Therefore, thank you all for your feedback; I will take it under consideration.

[Vahrokh]

Okay, it could be all that but really what it boils down to is that techs are not supposed to stack. The devs changed it so it was "correct" again. They could have just as easily deleted everyone's triple PV scales because they are not supposed to be in the game anyways. Instead they let us keep them. I think that's pretty fair.

I am pretty sure there existed a "middle" way to remove the ability to triple tech (correct) without making those so rare techs worthless (incorrect). A 5% "proc" is like a crystal 5% proc: no one uses them but for hoard, it's an indirect yet effective removal of the whole techs out of the game.

[Vahrokh]

At this point, I feel that any response I might make would only escalate matters further. Therefore, thank you all for your feedback; I will take it under consideration

Please don't take sharp yet sincere discussion too hard. It's the way of the forums.
You and Vi are great guys and deserve much, much praise.

Even if apparently it does not look so, you earn great respect at putting issues on the table and not hide under the sand. Or put players before the "done" facts.

This is actually one big sign what makes you guys different and better of the highly failed previous developers.

[Deth]

I am pretty sure there existed a "middle" way to remove the ability to triple tech (correct) without making those so rare techs worthless (incorrect). A 5% "proc" is like a crystal 5% proc: no one uses them but for hoard, it's an indirect yet effective removal of the whole techs out of the game.

Hi I am nobody and I use 5% and 3% proc crystals. But then I am not an uberdragon that uses triple teched Vengeance scales.

[Melanth]

At this point, I feel that any response I might make would only escalate matters further. Therefore, thank you all for your feedback; I will take it under consideration.

LaughingOtter, i would just like to point out that in the short time that Vitrium has owned the game, it has grown more then since it was released! anyone think this is a bad thing? anyone? no? good. Tulga were pretty much doomed from the start and EI... well, 'inept' is putting it politely.

Dont get us wrong here; were not luddites who would see the game stagnate; the Devs, Emmisaries and all are doing a wonderful job

[LaughingOtter]

Melanth, Vahrokh, thank you for the kind comments, but I really mean it; there's not much more I can say. We can't discuss what we're working on, and I don't feel that hemming and hedging around those topics would do anything but make people unhappy.

Fair criticism is always welcome, especially if accompanied by alternative suggestions.

[Tempests]

I don't believe they are asking for specifics at this time, just when a change is coming down, if specifics could be detailed, I mean, they are supposed to go onto Blight for testing first, correct? So, once released there, open debate about how the effects work/don't work could easily be looked into. Changes made on Blight, thoroughly explored and made functional, then posted to Order and Chaos are the way I thought the test shard was supposed to work, that way things that did not function correctly wouldn't be put into the live shards, and things that were whole heartedly disliked and or proven to be be unworkable could be removed?

[Guaran]

Keep in mind, the scales can still be crafted with
Primal Vengeance x1
Eminence x1
Vital Defiance x1

All on the same scale.
Or 2 of those and a socket
Or 1 of those, Tooth&Claw V, Socket, etc.

and it is still useful that way. Especially when doing a rift hunt or a boss hunt. If 10 dragons all have 1 PV tech on thier scale, chances are in a group of 10 it should land right away.

They've hinted that changes are coming making triple vengeance un-necessary. Not sure what they are but it sounds exciting.

As far as the attuning goes, I don't really mind it so long as ALL my gear isn't going to start attuning.

[LaughingOtter]

That's the idea, yes.

Things like the changes to the dragon techs can't be made public until they hit live. Springing those on the players is never well received, but sometimes it has to be done.

I'll also point out that the process does work. Case in point: the Shield of Gold changes. Those changes were rolled back based on community feedback, before it ever went to Blight and people got a chance to see what it was actually like.

[Tempests]

I must admit, I have never seen the proposed changes to gold shield, I don't in general read forums as they tend to get so argumentative and snipey, and the same people seem to always respond.
Guaran, yes, the scales techs can be put on in different orders, or whatever, but the part that I was pointing out, originally, of the tradition lost, is still there. If the scales can not be triple teched any longer, what then is the harm in allowing the ones that exist to continue to be handed down? That was my whole question. It is the tradition lost that I have been concerned about. Yourself, Valtur and one other dragon that shows up occasionally can make the scales on Chaos. I don't believe any others can. So, if indeed the tech has been changed so that it can no longer be stacked (changed/corrected, I care not, the effect is the same) why worry about the scales that do exist? why prevent the tradition from carrying on?
Is there a way to request by submitting a ticket, that a piece of gear, that has been attuned, be able to be turned over to a new player? This would of course take more time in the developers/customer service personnel to do, but is that a possibility? to make it more of a formal presentation? Have both parties submit a request for the transaction and then allow the transaction to take place? This could bring the tradition into a more formal awareness, bring more show and community to the exchange and have greater honor attached to the item? It would be wonderful if it could be then tracked on it somehow who the owners were? That would definitely make it much more of a treasure, a list of those it had been attuned to attached to the description somehow.

[Kandin]

I would have liked to see what the changes were to Shield of Gold (even if my Dragon doesn't have it yet). I've always found that actually seeing it instead of just reading it is much better. You get a better understanding, and sometimes words don't always work the way intended.

[Pharcellus]

That's the idea, yes.

Things like the changes to the dragon techs can't be made public until they hit live. Springing those on the players is never well received, but sometimes it has to be done.

Why?

I'll also point out that the process does work. Case in point: the Shield of Gold changes. Those changes were rolled back based on community feedback, before it ever went to Blight and people got a chance to see what it was actually like.

Yes, but it is FAR more painful than it has to be, because it is repeatedly handled poorly with the playerbase. Start handling it properly, up-front, and openly, and I GUARANTEE you it will be a MUCH less painful process.

I never understood the innate fear developers have surrounding engaging the playerbase concerning the game development itself. Even you being a developer now proves that players can help make the game better. You don't transform into some magical, mystical being just because someone gives you development access and responsibilities. There are any number of people out there just as capable as you are. Continually playing the "dev vs player" game doesn't do anything but generate more ill will in the community. That's a known historical fact.

For ONCE, TRY the other route. Just TRY it. Give it a chance to set in as a habit. If you give it a really good effort, and it fails utterly miserably, then I'll admit I was wrong (at least in Virtrium's case).

[LOVWYRM]

I´m very pleased of what and how it is said here.

Please allow me to repeat myself: I second what Vahrokh says to 100 %.

Most of my friends and mates never visit this forum, and I have to tell them what is goin`on. And I hear their opinions-
to find out that Vahrokh represents them/us in so many ways.

Thy for that Vah-
*puts an emblem - shimmering, made of all Istarian gems-
on Vah`s chest scale*

[Nambroth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaughingOtter
That's the idea, yes.
Things like the changes to the dragon techs can't be made public until they hit live. Springing those on the players is never well received, but sometimes it has to be done.

Why?

As someone who has worked on resources like this in the past (Though NOT for Istaria, mind you), I imagine that he and other developers are under some sort of legally binding Non Disclosure. I could be wrong, but if that is the case, only the owners of the game can release them from it.

Not saying we have to like it but the devs may have no choice in the matter.

[Deth]

No the more likely reason is like when they told us that they were limiting cleanse to 1 tech per spell, they expect people to go out and craft a couple hundred, yes blowing it out of proportion, scales to hold on and pass out or use for trade down the road. I figure someone out there is still sitting on a bunch of triple teched cleansing heals.

[Pharcellus]

Yeah, but then they will just attune them and someone will be sitting on several hundred scales that they can't do anything with.

That, and it completely overlooks the fact that someone would have to be FANTASTICALLY RICH to make more than a few of them, since the only source for the comps is the Vielo, and they are excessively expensive, even for the Vielo.

[Deth]

I thought they do not attune till you equip them were triple teched scales handled differently?

[AdMordem]

I just have a quick question which might have been answered already:

I understand that new things are on the way, but why take away the trippleteched Vengance scales BEFORE adding the new skills? Doesnt this just leave us in a postion of having a fairly strong defensive hole? What if there are.... delays in getting these new changes to live?

For your alternative suggestion, it would be nice to still be able to get these scales until the new additions are in... though now that it has been taken away, obviously if it was reinstated everyone would hassel the couple of dragons with the tech to get the t3/4/5 chest scales made. In future, before taking something like this away it may be advisable to offer something at the same time of equal or greater value to the players. I was really looking forward to getting a tripple teched scale.. now it just really annoys me that others will have what is impossible for me to get.

The Cargo disk changes were almost enough to combat this though... almost... but something in the line of a stronger melee defense at the time (like making the single PV tech 10%) would have made me not care.

Balanced changes! that what im after!

[Pharcellus]

I thought they do not attune till you equip them were triple teched scales handled differently?

I am making the presumption that, if it was discussed beforehand, it could have been one solution to the problem of people "stockpiling" them.

There's a lot of ways problems can be solved. Some are easier than others. Some are better than others. However, unexplored, who can be sure?

[Image]

Why not bring those 3 techs back? Allow others to have them and keep them in the game.