Guild Communities Proposal Discussion

[Amarie Ancalimon]

Please use this thread to discuss the PROPOSED plan for handling guild communities post plot reclaim.

The announcement thread is here.

Greetings Guilds Members of Istaria,

We're finalizing the rule set for managing the transition of guild plots - we treat guild plots special and will exclude them from the general plot reclamation process.

Below is a proposal and is Not The Final Rule Set.

GUILD PLOT RECOVERY PROPOSAL
If the Master Guild Plot is owned by an inactive member, we will transfer that plot to the current Guild Leader.

Any plots in a community that are owned by inactive accounts will have those plots reclaimed immediately and marked for guild-only sale. Prior to this process, we will honor guild leader special requests to have guild plots manually sold to specific guild members to avoid the plots being on the open market.

We will post a list of guild communities that are available for purchase. Guild masters can take part in a random drawing for the opportunity to purchase the Master Guild Plot in any of these communities.
- Interested Guild Masters should submit a list of communities (in priority order) that they are interested in.
- You can only submit an offer if you have enough coin to cover the Master Guild Plot
- Guilds must be at least three months old as of (date we put this in place) to be eligible.
- Guilds which already own one or more guild plots are not eligible to submit an offer.
- A guild must have at least five individual active players in its membership to be eligible. (This is actual player accounts, not subscriptions.)
- Guilds with a history of excessive rules infractions by its membership (3 or more serious infractions resulting in suspension of longer then two weeks or banning) will not be eligible to bid for a guild plot.

Please understand this is Not The Final Rule Set and we will make a separate post with final rules about how we're going to move forward.

(Have I stressed enough that this is a proposal only? )

[Zexoin]

We will post a list of guild communities that are available for purchase. Guild masters can take part in a random drawing for the opportunity to purchase the Master Guild Plot in any of these communities.
- Interested Guild Masters should submit a list of communities (in priority order) that they are interested in.
- You can only submit an offer if you have enough coin to cover the Master Guild Plot
- Guilds must be at least three months old as of (date we put this in place) to be eligible.
- Guilds which already own one or more guild plots are not eligible to submit an offer.
- A guild must have at least five individual active players in its membership to be eligible. (This is actual player accounts, not subscriptions.)
- Guilds with a history of excessive rules infractions by its membership (3 or more serious infractions resulting in suspension of longer then two weeks or banning) will not be eligible to bid for a guild plot.

I have a hard time to understand what this means :/
Sorry if I a being dumb, but could you detail this more ?
Thanks

[rizo/nawkia]

I'm assuming it means that only guild leaders may buy guild plots and that they have to foollow those guidelines as well.

-3months or older
-cant already have a guild plot
-cant have more than 3 infractions(bannings im guessing)
-must have enough coin to buy it
-submit the ones you want in the order wanted

[Deth]

I think it means if any guild master plots become open due to the fact that there are no active guild members they will put them up for action. Or unsold master guild plots that may be in the world.

-The Guild master buy list in desired order from 1st to last the plots they would be interested in buying.
-You must have the coin to buy the plot when you submit your list.
-The guild can not be a new guild created less then 3 months ago to get a new guild plot, I.E. A guild that already has a plot and breaks the rule listed below can not spin off a new guild buy a plot then sale that guild plot to the main guild and disband the new guild.
- If you own a guild master plot you can not buy one of the newly freed ones.
- If you have members that have been causing trouble you are not allowed to bid.

At least that is how I read it.

[Zexoin]

Thanks for the clarification, I understand better.

-The guild can not be a new guild created less then 3 months ago to get a new guild plot

I suppose the plot auctions will happen in more than 3 months then, because the guilds created by former Unity players are recent.

[Amarie Ancalimon]

I suppose the plot auctions will happen in more than 3 months then, because the guilds created by former Unity players are recent.

That is an assumption. We didn't say that anywhere.

Though it is something to discuss pros and cons of.

One thing to consider is how many brand new guilds showed up when people transferred from Unity versus people joined existing guilds.

Another is how much time has passed since we opened up Unity transfers already, and perhaps we adjust the "3 month" to account for that time when we do start reclaims. Remember, it's all a proposal, so things can be adjusted.

Another is to consider opening up plot reclaims separate (and sooner) than guild community reclaims.

And lots of other possibilities here that I can think of. That is why we're opening it up for discussion, though, not just "doing it."

So... what else (if anything) wasn't clear?

[Justa Mirage]

It won't happen with me now that I gave up being GM of Crimson Legion a while back because I didn't own the "guild plot" in Crucita and sits with an inactive player(s) in that guild.

If I had still been with them... here is my question:

If the account(s) of the GM the Master guild plot would default to already has the maximum number of owned properties... then what? do they get to own 2 properties?

[Hoberton]

Please use this thread to discuss the PROPOSED plan for handling guild communities post plot reclaim.

The announcement thread is here.

Greetings Guilds Members of Istaria,

We're finalizing the rule set for managing the transition of guild plots - we treat guild plots special and will exclude them from the general plot reclamation process.

Below is a proposal and is Not The Final Rule Set.

GUILD PLOT RECOVERY PROPOSAL
If the Master Guild Plot is owned by an inactive member, we will transfer that plot to the current Guild Leader.

Any plots in a community that are owned by inactive accounts will have those plots reclaimed immediately and marked for guild-only sale. Prior to this process, we will honor guild leader special requests to have guild plots manually sold to specific guild members to avoid the plots being on the open market.

We will post a list of guild communities that are available for purchase. Guild masters can take part in a random drawing for the opportunity to purchase the Master Guild Plot in any of these communities.
- Interested Guild Masters should submit a list of communities (in priority order) that they are interested in.
- You can only submit an offer if you have enough coin to cover the Master Guild Plot
- Guilds must be at least three months old as of (date we put this in place) to be eligible.
- Guilds which already own one or more guild plots are not eligible to submit an offer.
- A guild must have at least five individual active players in its membership to be eligible. (This is actual player accounts, not subscriptions.)
- Guilds with a history of excessive rules infractions by its membership (3 or more serious infractions resulting in suspension of longer then two weeks or banning) will not be eligible to bid for a guild plot.

Please understand this is Not The Final Rule Set and we will make a separate post with final rules about how we're going to move forward.

(Have I stressed enough that this is a proposal only? )

I think there may be a little bit of trouble with the sentence I have highlighted. What if the Guild Leader owns a plot outside the Guild community and the Main plot on the Guild community is owned by another player that is not active?

oops - Justa beat me to this concern.

[Thangorodrim Atanatari]

serveral guilds wich have been violating rules more then 3 times allready formed a new guild as we speak. so i am not sure how this rule will prevent anything.

also i am in a very big guild, would this mean we could only get 1 guildplot?

and what if our guildmaster is not willing to sell his old plot would all these players in this big guild not be able to get a guild community at all?

would it be possible to have 1 drawing for every 10 or 15 accounts (not characters) in the guild?
and have the guildmaster assign for each drawing a representative to own the master guild plot? (wich could be himself for 1 drawing)

[Amarie Ancalimon]

If you have a guild community and the main plot (the "guild plot") is owned by an inactive player, BUT you want to keep that community in your guild then you either need to:

A) Make someone a guild leader who does not own a plot.
B) Make sure your current guild leader has an "open subscription" (one with no plot associated with it) so that the guild plot can be transfered to them.

You should know if the person who holds your guild's community plot is an active player or not, basically. And if they aren't, and your guild wants to keep the community, then you need to make arrangements to have someone who IS an active player take over that plot. It's as simple as that.

[Justa Mirage]

Than:

There is a difference between "plot / lair" and "guild plot"

If your GM owns a "Guild community" plot / lair which means the GM has control over several "sub plots / lairs" to sell to guild only people, then your GM will not be able to purchase another guild plot.

If your GM owns a "regular" plot, another of the guild can be made GM and would be able to request a guild plot as long as no "other" member in your guild owned a guild plot.

As long as your guild does not own a guild community plot, the Gm of your guild can request to get one of the Master guild plots that will be available.

[Amarie Ancalimon]

Several guilds which have been violating rules more then 3 times already formed a new guild as we speak. So I am not sure how this rule will prevent anything.

Keep in mind that "new guilds" are not eligible, so you can't destroy the old guild, make a new one, and escape your past that way.

Also I am in a very big guild, would this mean we could only get 1 guild plot?

For this proposal, yes, that is what that means.

And what if our guild master is not willing to sell his old plot would all these players in this big guild not be able to get a guild community at all?

Then you need to appoint someone who is guild leader and is willing to hold the plot. It's not right to have an inactive player be the holder of your guild's community plot. You can have multiple people with rank of "Guild Leader" in your guild, so one of them could be the designated "Guild Plot Holder".

Would it be possible to have 1 drawing for every 10 or 15 accounts (not characters) in the guild?
And have the guild master assign for each drawing a representative to own the master guild plot? (which could be himself for 1 drawing)

I don't know the answer to that. It is something to consider, and discuss. What are other's thoughts on this idea?

[Amarie Ancalimon]

Than:

There is a difference between "plot / lair" and "guild plot"

If your GM owns a "Guild community" plot / lair which means the GM has control over several "sub plots / lairs" to sell to guild only people, then your GM will not be able to purchase another guild plot.

If your GM owns a "regular" plot, another of the guild can be made GM and would be able to request a guild plot as long as no "other" member in your guild owned a guild plot.

As long as your guild does not own a guild community plot, the Gm of your guild can request to get one of the Master guild plots that will be available.

Now ~I~ am confused.

There is one plot in every guild community that is the "key plot" to own in order to hold it in reserve for your guild. That plot needs to be owned by someone with the rank of Guild Master (I think it's "Guild Master", might be "Guild Leader", I'd have to go in game and see). You can have multiple people of that rank in your guild.

(Note I believe that previously any member of the guild could hold the "key plot" for the guild community, so this is a proposed change.)

[Deth]

serveral guilds wich have been violating rules more then 3 times allready formed a new guild as we speak. so i am not sure how this rule will prevent anything.

I do not think it matters how many guilds they form as long as 3 accounts with bannings, or 1 account with 3 bannings or how ever it works out, are still in the guild they will not be able to bid. They would have to kick the members with the bannings to be able to bid. Also they may run into the three month rule. Nothing will be perfect and get around people that want to exploit the system but it is fair right now I think.

[gopher65]

I don't know if the tech is there for this (probably not), but I liked an idea I heard someone talk about a while back:

1) Have the Guild Plots owned by the guild as a whole, not by any specific member. One of the "permissions" (things like "add member" or "edit event") that the Guild Leader could hand out to the various ranks in the guild would be "plot access permissions". That would give any play with that permission access to the Guild Plot planning window.

2) Limit Guild Plots to one per guild.

This way the Guild Plot would always be owned by the guild, and the guild would never have to bug a CSR to go through the trouble of manually reassigning a plot when the current owner goes AFG (away from game).

Again, probably not possible right now, but I think that'd be the way to go if it could be done.

[Justa Mirage]

Before, anyone in the guild could hold the guild plot, I was the GM but Cinnabar is the owner of the guild plot, which meant I could not make any changes or sell guild plots to guild members, which made the property in Crucita worthless.

Since there are no active players at all in the guild, it will revert back to the system as I don't think there are any active players left.

Now that you have clarified that only a player with the rank of Guild Leader will be able to own a key plot / lair that makes sense.

[cauri_order]

I scanned through the thread very briefly - this proposal only applies to guild communities that are owned by inactive players, correct?

The reason I ask - I hold a guild community on the ORder shard, but I am not the guild leader. I won't be losing that community, correct? Assuming all subs are paid to cover the plots, etc.

[Drevar]

I'm assuming these steps will all be done manually and not left to some 3/4 working automated system?

Drev

[T-Sar-Goth]

Please use this thread to discuss the PROPOSED plan for handling guild communities post plot reclaim.

The announcement thread is here.

Greetings Guilds Members of Istaria,

We're finalizing the rule set for managing the transition of guild plots - we treat guild plots special and will exclude them from the general plot reclamation process.

Below is a proposal and is Not The Final Rule Set.

GUILD PLOT RECOVERY PROPOSAL
If the Master Guild Plot is owned by an inactive member, we will transfer that plot to the current Guild Leader.

Any plots in a community that are owned by inactive accounts will have those plots reclaimed immediately and marked for guild-only sale. Prior to this process, we will honor guild leader special requests to have guild plots manually sold to specific guild members to avoid the plots being on the open market.

We will post a list of guild communities that are available for purchase. Guild masters can take part in a random drawing for the opportunity to purchase the Master Guild Plot in any of these communities.
- Interested Guild Masters should submit a list of communities (in priority order) that they are interested in.
- You can only submit an offer if you have enough coin to cover the Master Guild Plot
- Guilds must be at least three months old as of (date we put this in place) to be eligible.
- Guilds which already own one or more guild plots are not eligible to submit an offer.
- A guild must have at least five individual active players in its membership to be eligible. (This is actual player accounts, not subscriptions.)
- Guilds with a history of excessive rules infractions by its membership (3 or more serious infractions resulting in suspension of longer then two weeks or banning) will not be eligible to bid for a guild plot.

Please understand this is Not The Final Rule Set and we will make a separate post with final rules about how we're going to move forward.

(Have I stressed enough that this is a proposal only? )

Good afternoon,

I have a number of concerns regarding this.

First, as Zexoin stated the 3 month old time limit would exclude the newly formed Unity player guilds as well as any other guilds that were formed for legitimate reasons prior to draft rule set being published. I understand why this is being suggested but it would exclude players unfairly. It is likely that the new guilds established for legitimate reasons would be excluded when these are the very guilds that need the plots.

Second, Please define "active" player? someone that has a paid account or someone that has logged in X period of time? What about alternate characters that may be in different guilds?

Third, If an inactive player owns a master guild plot and that player owns a guild master plot they would in effect prevent a guild from purchasing the community they want. Would this mean we would have to eject them from the guild? What about if this player is active? I personally wouldn't want to tell a guild member they are not allowed to own a particular plot and must sell it or they will be thrown out of the guild.

Fourth, The one guild plot per guild limit could be juggled it would violate the spirit of the rule but not break the rules as they are written. E.g. an existing guild with a guild plot could sell that plot to an alt in a nameless guild. The nameless guild may not be eligible but the original guild now would be. That being said I understand why it's being suggest but I do not see how this can be enforced.

Fifth, I am sure that some people own plots they are holding because it was the best they could get under the current situation. In some cases these people would be willing to sell the plots they have should they get the plots they want but not give up what they have unless they know it is an option. The current rule set does not consider this.

Sixth, What about larger guilds? they may have legitimate needs for more then one guild plot as some guild plots only have 4 or 5 plots. Guild mergers could result in more then one guild plot where both groups are well established but still need new land.

Seventh, As stated previously how would a master guild plot shift back to a guild master if that guild master already owns a plot? (Guild plot, Master guild plot, or normal plot)

Eighth, some guild have established plots but plots are now owned by players that have joined other guild. This in effect prevents the guilds from growing on those communities as all that is left may be plots that are two small to effectively use. Guild masters really need a way to enforce that these plots can get returned to the communities on leaving that guild. It would help make some guild lands more useful again.

At the moment I do not have any suggestions on how to address any of this but I will consider it and post my own suggestions. I apologize for any errors or incorrect assumptions in what my above concerns that I may have made but at the moment I've little time left in break and I'm hoping some of what I've commented may be helpful :P

Take care,
Tsargoth

[Knossos]

Amen Tsargoth and perhaps it is the tip of the iceberg you have described as many things have "muddied the waters" over the years since Beta.

I will watch in wonderment as this thread evolves.

Knossos