Guild Communities Proposal Discussion

[Oakleif]

You're right. The titles are too similar and I lost track of which thread I was in. Sorry.

So... in answer to number 2, brainbasher, follow the link Zex gave.

[Creme]

A sub is a sub, same price (unless you go with a paid-up front plan), but even then, it is still a subscription.

Why are you providing different "rights" when players are paying the same price for a subscription?

What is wrong with just having bids, once you've resolved which guild communities should be released and which ones shouldn't?

I do agree that there is an issue with current guild communities, whereby players can maintain structures on guild plots that are unowned/paid for. This encourages players where they are the only active subscriber to maintain entire guild communities where the individual guild plots are largely unowned to retain the functionality of all structures on the communities.

By demolishing unpaid for properties and returning the novians to the owner, you would probably wind up recovering more guild communities.

[Guaran]

I understand why you want 5 different subs to determine eligibility, however as others pointed out this could 1) be worked around, and 2) a family or group of friends playing could be one or 2 accounts with 2 or 3 subs each.

I think that simply counting the number of subs (this is after all, income for Vitrium) should be sufficient.

Demolishing guild sub plots on unpaid accounts is a bad idea. Guild members at one time owned those plots, quite likely many or all guild members worked to BUILD those plots and structures. I don't want my work wiped because there are more guild subplots than guildmembers. This is a situation that will resolve itself if the game gets more players.

[cgacfox]

I have a question. I have 2 active accounts currently but 3 guild plots. I used to have 4 active accts and 3 guild plots. I got the email concerning selling one of the plots. I logged on 2 of the players that I want to get rid of their plots and tried to sell back to the community but it didn't work. I don't want my main character's guild plot to be taken in the reclamation so I am forfeiting my family's plots because they don't play any more. How can I get this done? Do I need to send a ticket to have these particular plots sold back to the community? Has anyone else tried to do this and were they successful? This was very frustating last night trying to sell the 2 plots and nothing was happening. With a ticket can they go in and do it for me? There are structures on the plots and I know they will be forfeited with the sale.

[Oakleif]

This thread may help cgacfox. Please add your info to it as well, so that the devs can track down any bugs that are happening.

[Amarie Ancalimon]

Why are you providing different "rights" when players are paying the same price for a subscription?

In this question are you referring to the "right" to own a Guild Key Plot?
If not, which "different rights" are you referring to Creme?

[Creme]

Yes, I am.

It sounds as though the price paid for a subscription (or 5) does not provide equal benefits, which I don't really see as appropriate.

This mostly stems from a question raised earlier, why would it matter if it was a single account with 5 subs versus 5 accounts, each with a single sub.

[Amarie Ancalimon]

This proposal was brought up in order to reduce the chance that a single player would monopolize on a Guild Community Plot.
We really appreciate all of the input on these ideas and are interested in hearing more!
What are some thoughts on Players who own a plot in the Guild Community but are no longer a part of the Guild?

[T-Sar-Goth]

What are some thoughts on Players who own a plot in the Guild Community but are no longer a part of the Guild?

I think that at next reclaim the plot gets marked for "For sale to players" automatically. This would keep structures intact and would give the player(owner) hopefully enough time to try to move their items. An existing guild member could then buy the plot as needed.

Second point. I would like to suggest adding two options to guild permissions.

• Able to purchase guild land.
• Able to purchase guild key plots.

It would help a guild control who can build on their land.

Just my thoughts.

Take care,
Tsargoth

[Steelclaw]

Well, now, that's a bit of a problem. (non-guild members owning a plot in a guild community)

Consider two cases of interest: hostile guild leaders and hostile plot owners.

In the hostile guild leader case, there's a guild leader (not always a guild owner, just someone who has 'kick player out of the guild' permissions) who doesn't get along with the plot owner (for whatever reason) and kicks the owner out of the guild, or the owner decides to leave because they can't stand the leader. If membership in a guild is a requirement for keeping a guild plot, what happens now?

Is it then fair that the plot owner loses their plot (and possibly the work and items on it)? Is it fair for a guild leader to control a player's plot once that player has taken ownership of it?

In the hostile plot owner case, a player joins a guild for the purpose of acquiring a plot in its guild community. Shortly after receiving a plot, they leave the guild. Under the current scheme, that plot stays with the player.

Is it fair to the guild that one of their plots is now owned by someone who is not in the guild and has no desire to be in it?

Here's a third case to consider: The owner of a guild master plot doesn't have enough interest in their guild to fill the remainder of the plots in the community. There are non-guild players showing interest in those plots, and, being a nice person, the owner of the master plot is willing to let them move in. If ownership is tied to membership, how can this situation be permitted? Is it otherwise improper?

I say leave the current guild plot (non-master plots) semantics alone for now. At least that way, there are no surprises and while possibly broken, they are established as the norm.

After things have settled for a few (3-6) months after the first round of reclaims are over, then come back and revisit this issue. By then, there should be a good record of what problems need to be solved (as opposed to ones that /might/ exist) and what normal player behavior looks like.

[velveeta]

Well, now, that's a bit of a problem. (non-guild members owning a plot in a guild community)

Consider two cases of interest: hostile guild leaders and hostile plot owners.

In the hostile guild leader case, there's a guild leader (not always a guild owner, just someone who has 'kick player out of the guild' permissions) who doesn't get along with the plot owner (for whatever reason) and kicks the owner out of the guild, or the owner decides to leave because they can't stand the leader. If membership in a guild is a requirement for keeping a guild plot, what happens now?

Is it then fair that the plot owner loses their plot (and possibly the work and items on it)? Is it fair for a guild leader to control a player's plot once that player has taken ownership of it?

In the hostile plot owner case, a player joins a guild for the purpose of acquiring a plot in its guild community. Shortly after receiving a plot, they leave the guild. Under the current scheme, that plot stays with the player.

Is it fair to the guild that one of their plots is now owned by someone who is not in the guild and has no desire to be in it?

Here's a third case to consider: The owner of a guild master plot doesn't have enough interest in their guild to fill the remainder of the plots in the community. There are non-guild players showing interest in those plots, and, being a nice person, the owner of the master plot is willing to let them move in. If ownership is tied to membership, how can this situation be permitted? Is it otherwise improper?

I say leave the current guild plot (non-master plots) semantics alone for now. At least that way, there are no surprises and while possibly broken, they are established as the norm.

After things have settled for a few (3-6) months after the first round of reclaims are over, then come back and revisit this issue. By then, there should be a good record of what problems need to be solved (as opposed to ones that /might/ exist) and what normal player behavior looks like.

can't speak for reclaim, but i was kicked out of a guild (a very long and sordid story) i had a plot in the community with (okay thats not a great sentence, i know....). in that case, i kept the plot but obviously lost access to guild property.

so i am not sure what will happen with the reclaims and guild property, but apparently, once you buy a plot, its yours until you sell it again.....

[LaughingOtter]

Yep, it's yours until you sell it. Of course, you'll only be able to sell it to members of your old guild...

[T-Sar-Goth]

I think that at next reclaim the plot gets marked for "For sale to players" automatically.

One thing I didn't think of until now is that what if the person that leaves the guild is the one that holds the master plot. It's a case that needs to be considered.

Hmm...

Take care,
Tsargoth

[Fratricide]

All these are valid points, I tend to look at guild plots thusly.

1) the master guild plot is owned by the Guild, just being held by one of the guild leaders. If this is the case, then the following must also be true.
a) The guild "owner" or "master" would have to sell the plot to loose rights to the plot.
b) If that plot is sold to another guild or to the community, then all subplots should follow the subplot scheme to follow.

2) Guild subplots- owned by guild members, with sufficient plot slots on their accounts.
a) If the player leaves or is removed from the guild, the player should have 1 month from that day before the plot is "reclaimed" for the guild to use.
b) A guild subplot owner has the rights to build or destroy the buildings on their plot as need be, so long as they still belong in the guild.
c) Guild subplots should be preset to guild only access, as well as any industrial buildings should be set automatically to guild only access. All storage structures should be set automatically to owner only access.
d) If an owner of a guild plot is no longer in the guild, they cannot destroy the structures on the plot, as the plot, and structures on it, are guild property, and should only be destroyable by a member of the guild.
e) If the owner of a guild plot is no longer in the guild, the owner of the said plot should be able to extract their items from their structures.


Im sure I'll think of something else to put after this, but... just my thoughts currently on the subject.

[Guaran]

I think that at next reclaim the plot gets marked for "For sale to players" automatically. This would keep structures intact and would give the player(owner) hopefully enough time to try to move their items. An existing guild member could then buy the plot as needed.

This basically amounts to stealing IMHO.

This situation is probably fairly rare. Yet these suggested consequences are overly dire.

The solution is for players and guilds to part ways amicably. It should be transferred to another guildmember before the player leaves, or deconned and sold to community. But forcibly taking it back is wrong. This could be abused by a guild.


The bigger issue would be players who have quit. And thats already been addressed in the past with guild subplot reclaims. Continuing to do so is sufficient.

Consider this: If guild subplots worked this way (and it's completely wrong to make such a change when people bought them thinking it was thiers and would stay that way. If anything like was ever implemented it should only apply to newly purchased plots), I think it would seriously devalue all guild subplots. Who in their right mind would be willing to go to the trouble of building a plot as well as tying up a plot slot for something someone could take by simply ejecting said player from the guild and waiting 30 days?

All of the sudden guild subplots would be the bane of istaria..... almost worthless.

If such a change is ever implemented, I could agree to it ONLY if all guild subplots did NOT count towards plot slots in a subscription. i.e. a cheap account with no plot slots would still be able to own one, or someone with plot slots could own one as well as a regular plot outside the guild. Of course then, we'd have lots of players holding 2 plots.... Which seems a bad idea now that guild sub plots are being improved....


I stand by my original thought that taking a plot from a player even a guild subplot is simply wrong. If it's counting towards my plot slots and I'm paying the monthly fee, it's mine period. If I leave the guild that owns the master plot, it already works in such a way that if I want to sell it, I have to sell to the old guild or to the community. Thats enough of a restriction.

[Arietna]

Guaran - if the player who's been kicked out of the guild still plays, his/her plot wouldn't come up for reclaim whether it's a guild plot or not..

that's my understanding anyway...

[LaughingOtter]

That's correct, Arietna, currently. The question Amarië is asking is, "should this be changed"? In other words, should plots be reclaimed when the owner is no longer a member of the owning guild, even if that player is active?

That's not saying that anything is GOING to change, just that the question is being asked.

[Shian]

As a personal opinion I think that if a member of the guild is no longer with the guild, they have 30 days to move off the plot if they removed themselves from the guild.

What's the point in having guild lands if some plots are owned by people who are not in the guild?

[Justa Mirage]

This would be sad if the guild had a built up town, but the active Key plot owner wasn't of that guild, but the guild they belong to already owns a guild plot.... that could get hairy.

Would the plot go up for sale to:

the GM of the guild owning the majority of the sub plots assuming the GM nor any of their guild owns another guild plot?

the GM of the owner of the key plot assuming that their GM nor any of their guild owns another guild plot?

Will there be foreclosures and eviction notices if the Key plot does not match guild members on sub plots?

There should be a check when you click the "Leave current guild" button that says "by leaving this guild you give up your plot to the guild community in which you own the plot. Are you sure?"

[Zexoin]

In my opinion, the master plot should belong to the guild, not to the player. Would avoid such problems then.