Can we re-assess food and the Death Point duration?

[Shian]

My limit is about 4, even long having had the ability to make ambrosia and keeping a stockpile and now being 100 CONF. I can coun't the number of times I have had 5 or more DP on one hand.
Drev

A limit... somehow I am reminded of the events that went on and people were refusing to come because they had two DP. Again, why is this game all but forcing people to not play?

[Drevar]

I ask this then, how can it be "just a game", "just an escape from reality", "just a hobby", "just something fun to pass time", etc., etc., and yet elicit responses like Shur's? It's not supposed to be work, or real life, yet people get so emotionally attached that they are willing to break TOS to argue thier views against someone elses.

The game is obviously fun enough that people are willing to take the perceived harsh penalties; the good with the bad and deal with it, whether silently, in Marketplace, via emails to devs, or by ranting on the board later. It is a niche game, not mainstream. If people want mainstream, consequence free, hack and slash loot fest, I can point to a dozen other games out there that cater that that playstyle...some quite matured, stable, and content rich.

I'm not saying things can't be changed, MMORPGs are all about nearly constant change, but there are much more constructive ways of voicing your disagreements than personal insults or threatening to quit.

Drev

[Adwene]

Hmm I thought the old ambrosia cost about 70s each? The new food on choas costs less than 6s a meal for the highest rating one. Much cheaper even when you need 2 full meals.

As to the rest of your complaint, I agree for the most part. They went way too far with this change.

Put it this way, I think its quite reasonable to expect to die at *least* once a day just through mishap. Right now the max time for a death point to last is 28 hours, more than 1 day. Personally, I'd adjust it down to 20 hours. (24 hours will be good for lvl 120+ when the game expands that far.)

If you die more than once, food is there. The time taken to consume food to relieve 1 dp for me is 22-25 mins. 2-4 mins to get the first full meal, 20 to wait for the cooldown, and eat another full meal. Thing is to reduce the next dp, adds a full 40ish mins.

Thats pretty much wasted time for me. There isn't much to do near the taverns, and sure you can eat in the field but it takes twice as much food and time. I wish we could eat the food faster!

I dont' know really if taking 8 hours off the Death point time will make a huge difference but I have to say it really does annoy me that the DP's last more than a day.

[AmonGwareth]

I understand your concerns and I want you to know that we are always looking back at the numbers. When we released this change we said we made it harsh because it was easier to "pull back" and make it easier, than to do the reverse. There are some numbers that may need to be tweaked and we appreciate the feedback you are all giving us.

If you die more than once, food is there. The time taken to consume food to relieve 1 dp for me is 22-25 mins. 2-4 mins to get the first full meal, 20 to wait for the cooldown, and eat another full meal. Thing is to reduce the next dp, adds a full 40ish mins.

Adwene,are you saying that you are eating meal A (Appetizer A, Side A, Main A, Dessert A) and then waiting 20 minutes so you can eat A again? Because the system was setup so that you would eat A and by the time you got done with A there was a short delay, but then you could start eating B (Appetizer B, Main B, Side B, Dessert B). And once those four had been completed, you'd be ready to eat A again.

[GalemThawn]

Adwene,are you saying that you are eating meal A (Appetizer A, Side A, Main A, Dessert A) and then waiting 20 minutes so you can eat A again? Because the system was setup so that you would eat A and by the time you got done with A there was a short delay, but then you could start eating B (Appetizer B, Main B, Side B, Dessert B). And once those four had been completed, you'd be ready to eat A again.

I have 4 full meals of in a pouch that I stick in the vault when not using.
4 Appetizers, 4 Main meals, 4 Sides, 4 Deserts. 25 to 30 of each food.

I have 4 hotkeys setup.
1 eats the first meal and then calls Meal 2. Meal 2 eats a full meal and then calls Meal 3. Meal 3 eats a full meal and calls Meal 4. Meal 4 eats a full meal and calls Meal 1.

Each hotkey is setup with appropriate Wait seconds between each food item.

If I ever get up to 5 dps, I just pull the pouch out of vault, sit in the tavern, hit the hotkey, and walk away.

That's how I handle it.

[Tempests]

I have so far managed not to accumulate massive amounts of DP's during this new DP penalty phase of the game. I used to rack up 20 with no worries out hunting things that were beyond my level, or helping others. Now, I seldom go out hunting anymore, occasionally to get comps to make things for guildees or for friends that need something. I can take on most of the mobs in the game, by myself, as long as I am careful, however, last night, I pulled one mob and he brought about 10 friends, and they stunned and killed me before I had a chance to leave. This is not terrible, I was rather amused by it, and with one ambrosia and one meal + 1 desert (yes, I had 2 deserts :P) I was back gathering comps again. However, I do have a friend that tends to agro tonnes of mobs, and tends to die a lot because of that. Some of the agro range seems to be a bit confusing and when mobs stun you so you can't attack, nor fly away, nor run, if you are a bi-ped, then you die, no help for it, no matter what your level.
I mostly craft in game now. But I do enjoy the crafting aspect. Many don't. That is why this game has crafting and adventuring. I do think the DP system is a bit harsher than it needs to be. A good point that cap lasts longer than a day, that is rather strange. I would actually go for a cap of less than that, it makes sense.
Yes there are crafting options, eating options, etc. But many are on a limited time, and/or don't craft. I don't like the loss of experience that some suggest, but I can see where they are coming from. If you are limited to 1 - 2 hours game play, due to RL (yes, I know, horrible, but it is there) schedule, how terrible is it if you end up in that time not being able to play due to massive amounts of DP's and the fact that they haven't worn off from the day before?
Many players truely look on this game as an escape. A chance to get away from RL hassels, politics, bills, etc, and yet what do we find in the game, but many of those very things. No, I am not saying eliminate DP's, nor am I saying do away with food. I think, however, that some of the food which is much harder to make (and yes, I do know that some of it is a royal pta to gather and make) should actually be worth more DP removal. And that the cost would reflect that, of course. I know there was something that was supposed to do that, spices or some such, have not heard of that yet, and I know there was plenty of discussion over that.
I also think it would be cool to have dragons have to do something different for their food. Hunting certain food mobs would be good. Maybe some cows that are level 10/20/30/... etc and you have to eat a certain number of them, or certain other mobs that are per level, if you are level 100, you have to kill 10 of these level 100 mobs to get rid of a dp, oh, yes, and consume them. Now these mobs would have to be easier to kill than say Thistlebritches, but not just giveaways, it would take some work to kill them, but I think Dragons would be happy doing so. Anyway, just another suggestion.

[Dhalin]

I have 4 full meals of in a pouch that I stick in the vault when not using.
4 Appetizers, 4 Main meals, 4 Sides, 4 Deserts. 25 to 30 of each food.

I have 4 hotkeys setup.
1 eats the first meal and then calls Meal 2. Meal 2 eats a full meal and then calls Meal 3. Meal 3 eats a full meal and calls Meal 4. Meal 4 eats a full meal and calls Meal 1.

Each hotkey is setup with appropriate Wait seconds between each food item.

If I ever get up to 5 dps, I just pull the pouch out of vault, sit in the tavern, hit the hotkey, and walk away.

That's how I handle it.

Gaaaah that is getting pretty sad when people resort to using a near-automated system to deal with Death Penalties, because the game does that much damage to a character's ability to adventure.

When people start letting their computers run while their character performs <tasks> while the player is away from keyboard, just because it is too boring to sit around and wait, that is when you _know_ something is vastly wrong with the system.

I am in no way bashing Galem for doing this, by Cania I'd probably be doing the same myself if I ever got into a similar situation. As would any sane player who didn't feel like sitting at the computer for hours while their character sits in a tavern doing absolutely nothing.

[gopher65]

Adwene,are you saying that you are eating meal A (Appetizer A, Side A, Main A, Dessert A) and then waiting 20 minutes so you can eat A again? Because the system was setup so that you would eat A and by the time you got done with A there was a short delay, but then you could start eating B (Appetizer B, Main B, Side B, Dessert B). And once those four had been completed, you'd be ready to eat A again.

... 4 full meals (16 items) not 2 full meals (8 items). There is a 5 minute cooldown between items of each type.

[GalemThawn]

I am in no way bashing Galem for doing this, by Cania I'd probably be doing the same myself if I ever got into a similar situation. As would any sane player who didn't feel like sitting at the computer for hours while their character sits in a tavern doing absolutely nothing.

No offense taken. I don't see it as a bash at all.

I rarely get any DPs. I've been hunting WA out in ED for about 2 weeks now. Doing a lot of fighting around the Centopaths. Yet I've only died once on that whole time, due to my tactics.

However, WHEN I do accumulate DPs, that is the manner in which I handle it.

Once, when I had 6 DPs, I woke in the morning and logged into Horizons. Set off my Meal hotkeys, and then went about getting ready for work. By the time I was ready to leave, I was down to 2 DPs.

[Creme]

Hmm I thought the old ambrosia cost about 70s each? The new food on choas costs less than 6s a meal for the highest rating one. Much cheaper even when you need 2 full meals.

Some players are charging 100s per ambrosia on Chaos. As it takes 2 amb7s to eliminate a T6 deathpoint, that's 200s if you go the ambrosia route.

A full meal is ~ 6-7 silvers. It takes 2 full meals to eliminate a single death point. That's not very costly, and cheaper than Amb 7 used to be prior to the death point changes.

Amb 7 would take 10 minutes to eliminate a single deathpoint in a tavern, as it has a 10 minute cooldown. So eat 1, wait 10 minutes, eat the other and you're on your way.

2 full meals would also take 10 minutes to eliminate a single deathpoint; however, you need to eat 2 DIFFERENT full meals, as the cooldown on eating a different dish of the same type is 5 minutes; 20 minutes if you try to eat the SAME dish/type.

So, to optimize your death point removal time, buy 2 different full meals and eat them back to back and you're on your way, and out of pocket ~13-14 silvers in 10 minutes.

I'm seeing some pretty high deathpoint numbers from players killing Reklar/Sog every 30 minutes and bouncing back and forth. Deathpoint accumulation should be expected if you're going to kill a boss in these types of intervals and is a player CHOICE.

To complain about a penalty when you are intentionally going into situations where death points occur, or after epic loot, is weak.

I believe someone made a claim that they can gain 1 million hoard & xx amount of coin in hunting in an hour. With those numbers, you could easily afford the < 15 silvers to eat off a single death point and the 10 minutes in a tavern.

[Dhalin]

No offense taken. I don't see it as a bash at all.

I rarely get any DPs. I've been hunting WA out in ED for about 2 weeks now. Doing a lot of fighting around the Centopaths. Yet I've only died once on that whole time, due to my tactics.

However, WHEN I do accumulate DPs, that is the manner in which I handle it.

Once, when I had 6 DPs, I woke in the morning and logged into Horizons. Set off my Meal hotkeys, and then went about getting ready for work. By the time I was ready to leave, I was down to 2 DPs.

*grins* not everyone is a rating 174 super soloer either.

But yes, your example Does give some insight as to what is wrong with a system when people feel the best way to deal with it, is to perform an automated task to get rid of it.

[Creme]

Regarding loss of exp as a penalty. This is meaningless with the great numbers of 100+ rated characters. They would effectively never suffer a death penalty.

IMO the largest brunt of effort for death penalty removal is the confectioners.

Suggestions have been made to make food easier for them to make. As it stands, I believe confectioners spend more time collectively in working toward death point removal than those that actually die.

Increase the batch sizes produced or lower the requirements that go into each food type or the # of combines.

Move the timer to be part of the front end delay versus the back end delay.

I've also seen players eating food out in the field (while camping reklar), which is probably why it's not as effective.

[Shur]

I believe someone made a claim that they can gain 1 million hoard & xx amount of coin in hunting in an hour. With those numbers, you could easily afford the < 15 silvers to eat off a single death point and the 10 minutes in a tavern.

yes, that is entirely possible, i've done it, in fact. but there is a slight catch: it requires i have uninterrupted access to a spawn like the one on drakul (which suicidemachine has taken to camping recently.....was hunting there yesterday and he swooped in, aggroed the whole field, including my pulls, and started plugging away....) and i have to be really bloody careful not to get killed.

but, as i stated in my OP, coin cost is only a small part of the issue. it would become smaller still if a few things were to happen:

first: the timer on the deathpoint fade was reduced, drastically
second: one full meal, eaten outside a tavern, cleared one DP. The tavern is there to boost the effectiveness of foods, not to be the standard rate.
Third: a food item that removed the Death Penalty were introduced. I would suggest that this food item be made consumable -only- in a tavern. in fact, i'm gonna go make a suggestion for this with more detail.

[Deth]

If some one is kill stealing you may want to file a ticket on that.

[Shur]

i will if it continues to happen

[velveeta]

shur. i am not sneering at you, i am not peeved at you (much anyway), and i don't know you enough to really care if you believe me.

it sounds to me that you, like too many before you and sure to be after, want what they can't have. if, as it certainly sounds like to me from all your posts, you do not get any enjoyment from this game - none at all, apparently - why do you stay? is it just to post these threads? i mean, i seriously would like to know what motivates peeps like you to stay in game?

if you aren't having fun in this game, leave and find another you do like. there is no point in spending hard earn cashy money on something that is not to your liking. several options have been presented, none of which meet your needs. no other options are available at this time.

if you leave the game, you don't leave the forums, ya know. you can always come back and check on things. if they improve to your satisfaction, then you can bring your money back.

threatening to 'take your ball and go home' (as someone on another thread put it) does no one any good and does not inspire anyone to consider your opinion. niether do insults, which you state everyone else does to you but you were the first to start.

[Creme]

was hunting there yesterday and he swooped in, aggroed the whole field, including my pulls, and started plugging away....) and i have to be really bloody careful not to get killed.

How would you die, or be in jeopardy if someone aggro'd everything in the area. Giant Ice Beetles, once they've aggro'd don't aggro another player unless the player that's attacking it flies up, moves out of range, or dies. If aggro is floating around, the the aggro on beetles should be checked, because SM wouldn't pull a mob that you already had engaged.

As I recall, there are ice beetle spawns on Ice Island and another NW of Morning Light, if that's inhibiting you earning coin to buy food to eat away death points.

There are plenty of options on making coin, T4 blights are very manageable for high level dragons and drop good coin at the rate at which they can be killed. They also are a lower risk factor for death.

It sounds like you put up a lot of protests on WHY you can't do this, can't do that (i.e., can't afford to buy food) and yet you yourself say that you can earn coin very quickly but you can only hunt ice beetles on Dracul? Why not look more positively on what you can do instead?

Players have offered to make you food, if you'll help gather the resources (at no charge). That's not begging, but putting in a fair amount of work for an even exchange.

If you need help in game on how to hunt various mobs, or help with getting gear configured, please send me a PM on the forums and I'll be happy to work with you on tactics, gear configuration, etc.

[Shian]

To complain about a penalty when you are intentionally going into situations where death points occur, or after epic loot, is weak.

You're right, but pulling one too many mobs, lag, epic etc. it's all the same death point. A death point is a death point whether gotten by epics or some group of monsters or lag when in a group of lower leveled mobs or whatever. A DP is a DP and it lasts no less than a full day. Totally easy to get one or two every single day.

[Shur]

if you aren't having fun in this game, leave and find another you do like. there is no point in spending hard earn cashy money on something that is not to your liking. several options have been presented, none of which meet your needs. no other options are available at this time.

it's not that i don't have fun when i'm actually playing, it's the sudden interruption of my ability to play for X amount of time resulting instead in frustration at not being able to play that gets my goat.

How would you die, or be in jeopardy if someone aggro'd everything in the area.

As I recall, there are ice beetle spawns on Ice Island and another NW of Morning Light, if that's inhibiting you earning coin to buy food to eat away death points.

There are plenty of options on making coin, T4 blights are very manageable for high level dragons and drop good coin at the rate at which they can be killed. They also are a lower risk factor for death.

It sounds like you put up a lot of protests on WHY you can't do this, can't do that (i.e., can't afford to buy food) and yet you yourself say that you can earn coin very quickly but you can only hunt ice beetles on Dracul? Why not look more positively on what you can do instead?

Players have offered to make you food, if you'll help gather the resources (at no charge). That's not begging, but putting in a fair amount of work for an even exchange.

If you need help in game on how to hunt various mobs, or help with getting gear configured, please send me a PM on the forums and I'll be happy to work with you on tactics, gear configuration, etc.

hey creme, how about you go and read what i actually wrote, then write a response to -that-
quoting me out of context and ignoring the points of my post (like, say, that my main objection is that no matter what route is chosen, i am left with an unacceptable amount of downtime) does nobody any good and only spurs within me urges to point out a correlation between the level of intellectual honesty present in the argument and the level of intellectual capacity that must therefore exist in the poster.

so go back and read my original post, then we'll talk, mmkay?

[Creme]

Totally easy to get one or two every single day.

I don't find this to be the case.