Novians - And Novian Farming

[Mensar]

Looks like the decision has been tentatively made (delta patch on blight) to make plots/lairs freeze as far as reselling to the community for 24 hours. You can sell to another player, but that time requirement re-sets if it's sold to an alt or another player during that timeframe.

Looks like a subtle nod to deterring novian farming (not that they can't work around it if they're smart).

[Malendryn]

I know I'm late to this thread and I havent really read it all but if I'm getting the gist of the concern here, seems to me the simple way to solve it is to make it such that structures on any plot purchased from an auction should only deconstruct into novians that can ONLY be used on that very same plot.

This would completely stop anyone from buying plots solely for their novian value AND still allow people to buy plots they like with stuff on it that they would want to rearrange.

And other people can still use novians from non-auction deconstructions to help on that plot as well.

[Creme]

Why would novian farming during auctions have more weight than novian farming post auctions?

It's actually more expensive to novian farm DURING auctions, as potentially the bid price would be more expensive than the community price.

[Shian]

After auctions they will probably all be gone anyways...

[Creme]

All the plots/lairs will be gone?

haha ok.

[Shian]

No. The plots that have stuff on them (=novians) are large. Large plots will be the first to go at auctions.

Lairs.... All condemned lairs I've seen are empty. A few with a single corridor here and there but nothing for a squatter to go off of.

[Landowyn]

you totally miss the point here, like some others.
or you dont read the original post, or you trying to derail it.
but this is not about players telling other players what to do.
this is a united brainstorm effort to think up a -System- being enforced by code, that prevents people from abusing/pillaging the land!



i see you play LOTRO alot... codemasters have a huge team of coders jumping on any bug/abuse issue being reported. why are the devs here not allowed to do that in your opinion?
i think they can and should....

and we are not talking here about buying a few plots to reuse the novians. we talking here about massive pillaging.... and how to prevent it
people stockpiling up 20 plots of fully build structures etc etc.

edit: why would anyone be against such a change i wonder? maby because they planning for weeks allready like justa said and that this planning would have been in vain?

You make a couple of huge assumptions here. You assume that deconstructing a plot if wrong (abusive, I think you said), and you assume that coding in restraints on the ability to deconstruct a plot is desired.

And what in the world has the fact that I'm playing LOTRO while waiting for reclaims got to do with the price of tea in China?

Here's what is true. A certain segment of the population wants to control how other people play. I have been around long enough to remember when selling a plot or destroying a structure brought you nothing in return but empty space. I don't think I'd like to see that situation return to Istaria.

That being said, I am tired of arguing this point. Just remember, be careful what you wish for. You may not like the solution.

[Creme]

No. The plots that have stuff on them (=novians) are large. Large plots will be the first to go at auctions.

Lairs.... All condemned lairs I've seen are empty. A few with a single corridor here and there but nothing for a squatter to go off of.

This is not the case on Chaos.

[Summerbreeze]

Here's what is true. A certain segment of the population wants to control how other people play. I have been around long enough to remember when selling a plot or destroying a structure brought you nothing in return but empty space. I don't think I'd like to see that situation return to Istaria.

Very well said!!!

[Steelclaw]

Something to think about:

What if the community price for a plot or lair were to include the number and type of construction units applied at the time of transaction?

Example:
Each applied unit on a completed structure is valued at 1s per tier.
Each applied unit on an incomplete structure is valued at 250c per tier.
Each plot has a "base value" (the community price of the plot if it were empty).

A plot has a base value of 1g and contains a completed beginner alchemist shop and a partially completed tent, with only 20 flax bolts applied. The shop has 375 applied units, all T2, with a total value of 750s (375 T2 units @ 2s each). The tent has 20 applied units, all T1, with a total value of 5s (20 T1 units @ 0.250s each). The plot is worth the sum of its base value and the sum of the construction materials on it: 1g + 750s + 5s = 1g 755s. In order to purchase this plot from the community, the buyer would need 1g 755s. In order to place a bid on it, the bidder would need at least 1g 755s.

If the owner decides they then want to decon the plot and sell it back to the community, it is reassessed and they get 85% of the new value. In this case, since the plot has been razed, it is now only worth 1g. The owner would get back 850s.

[Creme]

Excellent suggestion.

This will prevent players that buy up plots from getting the work done on them for free, which I've felt has little difference from players that use novians to build up their own plots.

The only concern I have regarding novian farming is those that decimate entire communities to sell the novians for profit. Whether a player buys up a plot, destroys the contents to place their "own" buildings on it (which is their right to do so, 100%) or someone else buys the plot, takes the novians and uses it on another plot that they own, I see as basically the same thing--using an available commodity for their own personal use.

[Thangorodrim Atanatari]

You make a couple of huge assumptions here. You assume that deconstructing a plot if wrong (abusive, I think you said), and you assume that coding in restraints on the ability to deconstruct a plot is desired.

And what in the world has the fact that I'm playing LOTRO while waiting for reclaims got to do with the price of tea in China?

Here's what is true. A certain segment of the population wants to control how other people play. I have been around long enough to remember when selling a plot or destroying a structure brought you nothing in return but empty space. I don't think I'd like to see that situation return to Istaria.

That being said, I am tired of arguing this point. Just remember, be careful what you wish for. You may not like the solution.

do as you wish, im not trying to control anyones behaviour.
i (along with many many others) am asking the devs to do it. with a reason..

-im not saying that deconning a plot is wrong.
-i dont say that taking an extra sub for novians is wrong.
-im saying that its wrong to use 1 sub and farm 10 to 20 plots empty with it. yes so i make a judgement on that

now its a fair deal (and even lucurative for VI) if people want many novians, they can pay for subs, and thus earn the right to pillage 1 plot a day per sub.

even better, with this 24h system in place nobody can blame anyone anymore on this subject.

[Guaran]

I think this is really now a non-issue. When did the last big novian harvest happen: after the initial batch of reclaims right before condemming all the "too small" plots. However letting those be novian farmed I do not think was a big deal. These were small plots on unpaid accounts, up for deletion/resize. And the subsequent selling to community put the plot in it's most undesired state- empty. Which likely helped insure that it stayed unowned, and therefore was included in the massive plot revamp.

Whats the problem here?

Perhaps this change was purposefully implemented after that initial reclaim, to prevent the farming after auctions. This actually makes sense. Everyone is so concerned about getting on with auctions and omg omg I can't afford the plot I want blah blah blah. The likely outcome is that even with auctions, MANY plots will simply fail to have any bids at all - there's more than enough plots to go around (IMHO). It's for THOSE plots where farming could happen : after auctions, the leftovers. This is probably why a 24 hour wait was implemented. To me it seems sufficient enough to limit farming to 1 plot per account per day, without being overly impactful.

Any other suggestion about attuning novians to specific plots I do not see happening, because that sounds like too much coding on an already overtaxed dev team, and this would hurt a player moving to a larger plot. So bad idea. Remember the whole point of novians: To allow a player to redesign his plot/upgrade structures/move to larger plot, without loosing too much of the work done. I'm very happy they allow us to get novians from our stuff, any suggestion to go back to the old ways I would not be in favor of. Tweaks to the system like the 24 hour wait, I think can help. I don't really know what else is necessary.

[Mensar]

The decision has already been made to have plots held for 24 hours after purchase.

I think most novian farmers will get their one plot and watch the others go bye bye... hopefully to the folks that wanted the plot/lair for their own use, not just for the novians.

[Guaran]

The decision has already been made to have plots held for 24 hours after purchase.

I think most novian farmers will get their one plot and watch the others go bye bye... hopefully to the folks that wanted the plot/lair for their own use, not just for the novians.

Thats what the auctions will be for. Anyone who really wants a plot will get one during the auction.