Big Problems For New Players, Not Good For Istaria

[Phillip]

the past few days, i've spent time chatting with newplayersin the noob towns. as i have noticed, there's been a good increase of new players. many of these are the 7-day trials, but most have been around for almost a month. through the conversation i found that these new players are having similar problems:

1) not enough noob items on consigners. it seems most people that could make stuff are busy leveling, PB runs, or building on their plots. inventory on consigners are so few, as i've looked myself.

2) when a noob look up a crafter and asked for goods and services, he was directed to the MarketChat. most of the time the people in that channel would tell the noob to look up a crafter, round and round we go.

3) no guides on beastiary and their location, stats for class/leveling, hunting grounds, guides forcrafting. the manual don't have enough info.

4) most of the new players don't know to tap into chat channels for help. most can't simply rush to join a guild to gain these knowledge. simple fact is, it is not wrong to not rush into a guild.

5) they don't make enough money to convince lower level crafters to make things for them. new players are selling hides and such, their income is so much less than those certain crafts that can makemuch more at the PB.

frustration. that's what i got from the people i spoke to. quite a few said that their would leave at the end of the trial, others say they will let their subs run out.

in the Realm of Order, there have been a few good hearted individuals who try their best to stock the noob towns, and make spells, gear for new players. these people i have much respect for. however this is not enough or anywhere near what is necessary.

in my noob days, i could see 40 people at a Consigner. i would save up 1s for that blade, or spell (big money i know). there were a plenty to chose from. this is no longer the case, and the amount of cash intake and spent, are simply too great between the young and old.

i don't have a solution. maybe you guys could come up with something. maybe the devs can. i do think in order for us to stick around for a long time to come, we need a continual increase of new players coming to Istaria.

[Digita]

I once mentioned this earlier, when the tiered resources were first proposed. As a T1 blacksmith and scholar, with new players, either in a chat channel or asking in main tab for items... it was a few minutes work to run around Kion and gather metal, stone, wood, cloth and whip up something for a t1 adventurer. I was happy to do it to welcome them to the world and give them a start, no cost to them. I knew there were other players who did something similiar.

However, there is no one stop area anymore to gather all the material needed in the minimum amount of time with finishing machines nearby. Those days are gone now. If you have to bounce around the world to get what you need, you're much less likely to do it. Even on starter isles... you don't have all the resources. There are no wisps on starter isles.

People generally are more likely to help if it's semi-convenient to do so. It's one thing to spend 1/2 hour gathering material and making goods... it's another when you have to spend several hours doing so.

As for the low level crafters who should be making low level stuff... it's harder for them to get lore tokens and IBMs cuz they don't really drop much... the quests to get them are time consuming, and you have to do a lot to get enough lore tokens for forms... They can't afford the forms on consigners, definitely not on MP. And they have to be frugal with portal fees.

[Magfuddle]

Hz is community based - the community is letting down the new players by not being involved

Personal experience ...

My first day online I waswelcomed by one sexy fiend called Jade who was obviously looking for an apprentice. She isnt online at the moment but I hope she wasnt the only one of long-time players searching the starter islands for new players.

After a couple of days lessons she invited me into the guild - Im now 50 seasons in this guild and tutoring guild mages.

I often wander between Kion and Sslanis and if I see a new player I buff and heal as necessary (a mage healing ... well yeah I'm a reformed cleric), offer some suggestions, and especially if they are a magic user I might even toss them a spell or two for free.

I sometimes go to New Brommel to gather sandstone - when I go there I place as much newbie stuff as I can on the connies of the starter islands - but 10 per connie max is quite limiting.

I am not infrequently asked for assistance and I respond postively as often as I can, whether it be a commission for spells or assistance with creating bricks/shards for a lowbie levelling. I dont take kindly for requests for coin (I will point out that gruoks drop coin and that gathered resources can be pawned)or no-effort powerlevelling (leeching XP as a lowbie on my hunts is not on unless I am teaching my apprentices new fighting tehcniques)but I will assist in a RP manner (as I'm on Order)

[metagruen]

you are talking of your noob days.

but these days were different because there wasn't such a big difference between the amount of uber-high-levels and new players.

When I started in April there were still enough lvl 20-40 players and only a small percentage of high-levels.

Now.. in the past few months there werenot enough new players joining to fill the gap.

at the moment we have the same amount of player from 1-40 as we have with a rating +100.

Even in your noob days the high levels would not bother to make newbie stuff. Same as today. But as I said... too little mid-low-level crafters came in the last months.

Still... the frustration is self-made.
I have rarely seen that a player who asked in market or general chat for lowbie items to be rejected. As there were always people makeing stuff.

generally it was always better to ask a crsafter directly since the items on the connie even for beginner stuff were always higher than a bulk order from a crafter.

So, I say... it's an MMORPG.. ask people. talk to them. and you will be helped.

So it was when I joined WIND. but it has always been like that.

[HratLi]

I agree entirely about MP, on Bounty we used MP as a general chat as well as selling. We got a little silly, but we DID really do business on there. Nowadays to visit or post onto MP is to invite harassment or useless comments with very little chance of an actual transaction unless someone recognizes your name from somewhere.

I used to visit and stock the newbie towns but it was almost pointless to do so since it cost a decent amount of fees, travel time, now Materials are dispersed, and I almost always had all my goods sent back to vault (before the smarties out there comment, I was selling for 150-250c, high enough for a REAL new player to make some cash, but still be affordable). It was sad to say, but there were not enough new players to make it worthwhile. Catch-22.

If I run across a new player I'll still give them 'tasks' in exchange for a full set of gear, but been finding them few and far between.

Just my 2c

-HratLi

[Dalthbar]

I remember when I was kicking around New Bromm and trying to sell wares. It seemed that everything that I could make (largely bronze weapons and tools) were already flooding the connies.

But when I needed new armor parts, I could never find them and went MANY levels before I was able to get a full set of anything.

I think that usually the basic tools and basic weapons are covered. But one huge deficiency is armors of all types.

So you're left with this situation - should a higher level player make it a point to stock those connies (at the risk of flooding the market for the newbies) or should we keep Kion and Sslanis stocked and just funnel the players to those "T1 towns" off of the starter islands?

I think the latter is a better alternative.

[Nords]

There is a simple solution, allow more than 10 items at newbie islands consigners.
It just isn't worth the effort (and cash) for 10 items only.

I would for sure, if they upped the limit, put up armor, weapons, cargogear etc at the consigner.

As it is now, it's just not worth the effort.

[Aziroth]

I admit I'm a new player in a way. Well actually I'm a returning player that chose to start fresh on Order instead of continuing his 76 berserker on Chaos (formallyEnergy)to see how much things have changed.

Things have changed greatly since I began and I noticed there isn't much in the way of items or spells I need. It took me awhile to find out that Lore Keepers were taken out of the game so its not easy to get the formulas I need, which is a plus in some ways yet a major pain to save up tokens when they are still given out with so few.

That in itself caused me to pick and choose what I need. I'm constantly doing crafter tasks to get more tokens to get all the scales and primal spell formulas, not to mention check the consigner often for spell formulas that I can afford. Its hard all together for new players nowadays since the only way I was able to find the new resources is using a player modded map found within these forums. Not to mention finding a weaponsmith that wouldn't mind a crafting partner so I can try to work on my hoard to a respectible level is something different all together.

But how to make things easier for new players yet not make things to easy is a hard scale to balance. As I'm only a dragon hatchling of the 12 seasons within my respective crafting forte I don't have a whole lot of formulas with having to save up, but I'd be more than glad to help other players out with supplying any spells I can craft or scales. When I finish gathering the primal spells I will work towards the rest of the scales, but it isn't easy when your making 1-3 tokens a task and starting to need formulas for 15-25. Though case in point I could do adventuring solely to gather tokens, but that in itself is far slower.

[Goriax]

I wasn't aware there was a problem. A couple nights ago I got a tell from a low level dragon asking for armor. When I saw he was level 4 I went out to New Brommel and made him a chest scale (only thing a level 4 can wear) even though he could have done it himself. I probably should have pointed that out but didn't think of it.

It's no big deal to whip up a bunch of chest and wing scales (the only ones dragons below 20 can wear) and put them on a consigner to sell for a very nominal fee. I'll try to do that tonight. I suggest others do likewise. Just whip up a bunch of low level stuff and put them on the consigners in the "new" islands to sell for a nominal fee a newbie wouldn't have trouble with. Only put on items if there aren't comparable items already there (in case any of the newbies is into crafting we don't want to discourage them).

[Martal Bau]

IMO most of the problems come from the consigner system. It is just WAY too limiting to crafters and frankly needs to be compeletely reworked. The item limit should be like 18 per conny (enough for a whole set of armor and then some) and 90 for the server. Player consigners should have a hard limit on the number of items (say 500) that can be placed on them and the owner can divide out amongst players set as sellers on the conny how many items they can place on the consigner. This would be a huge boon to player run shops.

One thing I would love to see is the ability to sell a packaged set of goods. Like you could put on the conny a backpack that contained a whole set of armor, a weapon, and maybe some spells. The limitation of not being able to trade packs with items in them would obviously need to (and SHOULD) be overcomed, but IMO it would make life for crafters much better and would encourage more player selling through the consigners.

[Kulamata]

I have dropped stuff on the connies sometimes, but the limit is way too low for armor. I have seen Chioxin, for one, /shouting free spells for all.

This is a continuing problem, and has gone on far too long. In an interview DB recognized the problem, but nothing has changed. I would suggest piecemeal efforts rather than waitinguntil a grand change has been developed. Connie restrictions alone would help, and so would eliminating two starting islands, leaving New Tris and New Brom. We have WM's, are they monitoring the newb channel?

With the changes in websites, a lot of the newb guides are gone, or relatively inaccessible.

I think this should be given a very high priority.

[imported_Ssilmath]

In the past few days, I have had newbies and lowbies PMing me for suits of armor...I will do it if they have no other choice, but if you are going to ask someone for gear, you should do a /who and try and find one about your level...I've almost reached the point where I won't make anything under steel, because it wastes my time and takes business away from the lower level crafters...

If I could make a package (Full set of bronzechain with a socketed helm and low level crystal, etc...) and place it on a connie, I'd do so, make it about2.3 or 3silver, which is attainable for a lowbie, and place several on there, for all different classes...I wouldn't do it for the money, and would encourage lower level crafters do do the same...It would give a newbie a quest (Ok, if I can hunt gruoks and gather enough trophies, I can finally get that full suit of armor and deck myself out)...

Hmmm...I might consider the apprenticeship program, would be interesting, but I don't think that Ssilmath would do that for anyone, other than maybe an aspiring Sslik Armorer or Paladin...If there was a bulliten board, I would probably advertise that and see just how many people come looking for help...would be interesting...

[Sirra]

I have to agree with most of the issues cited here. I myself sit in General, General / Help and Marketplace, mostly watching for people that ask questions about Istaria. I try to help where I can, and am willing to, when necessary, guide people to where they could gain the most for their efforts. I also instruct those who are not yet knowledgeable about Istaria's greater glories and dangers.

As a Chaos Warrior of 83 seasons, it's not easy or convenient for myself or a newly gifted for me to hunt with them, as they will gain little in the way of experience from battles with me along protecting them, but I am still willing to show them where monsters are that need to be dealt with.

As for crafting, I am a Carpenter by trade and have excelled to the intricacies of working with Maple, which as many of you know, is a very difficult wood to craft. Having cut my teeth, so to speak, on Cedar and Elm, I also have no problem crafting with such woods, they're easy to work with and I've become very efficient at it. But, although I am efficient at it, I would rather guide an apprentice to the forests and teach them how, as I had to learn on my own. I've been known to pass up good paying jobs and recommend those apprentices I know instead, so they can earn some well deserved coin while they increase their proficiencies in woodworking and house building.

I see no reason why a weapon maker who can make mithril weapons, cannot make bronze weapons as well. If I can craft Maple, I certainly can craft Cedar. Granted, I don't learn anything new from doing it, but the goodwill of doing it far outweighs the experience of doing it. The same goes for Toolmakers, Armorers etc. If you're able to craft the harder materials, your skills are more than sufficient to craft the easier materials. Selling or even giving them away to newly gifted is not a bad thing, it promotes goodwill and helps gain more allies in the fight against the Withered Aegis.

My advice, take on an apprentice or two, teach them your craft, pass on the knowledge you've gained. Also, when asked, and time permitting, don't hesitate to help those in need, if someone has the need for something and you're capable of making it, take the time, it will only benefit everyone in the long run.

The Clerics of Kion taught me long ago that I should help those younger and less experienced than myself. I live by those teachings. Remember the rest of the community.

[Efton]

Well speaking from the low end of the scale (only 26 Ranger/23 Carpenter/23 Fletcher/22 Blacksmith), I have found that I can ask most high level folks questions and they are to glad to answer questions and even on occassions to go out of there way to craft a tool I might need to continue with my skills...but with that said...

I have put stuff on connies for noobs from tools to weapons and MIGHT sell 1 item. The problem I see is alot of noobs want to be UBER from the start begging for the the best items and/or money. I earned my way to where I am and many noobs don't do that. If I didn't have the money to buy the next best armor or weapon...I went without. I joined the marketplace and consrtuction job chat channels, wait for a job or request that I could do and immediately sent a PM to get the job.

I don't think it is as much of a problem as many veterans might think but the new attitude of those joining on that think they should be able to 'kill a dragon with a toothpick' mentality.

[Durrin]

I used to make the rounds of the lower tier towns (not the starter ones as the portal fee is just high enough to discourage that) and try to put some lower level cloth and leather armours up for sale if I saw a dearth of them and thought it might not be robbing some lower level crafter of a sale.

My main annoyance when doing this was that I could not even put 1 full set of armour anywhere. When they changed the consignment limits they could have at least made it 12 items or so and allowed us to put full suits of whatever up for sale. I realize they may not be full suits long, as people will pick and choose what pieces they need, but it would at least be easier to decide what to put where and might go some distance to encouraging people to try and help out the newer players.

I'll try to make an effort to put some lower stuff up for sale at reasonable prices at Kion and Sslanis in the hopes people will find it when they widen their search from the beginner towns.

[evilkarl]

Not being able to put a full suit of armour, or a full set of one line of spells is a hinderance and will discourage people from even trying.

Perhaps there should be a new set of forms
Begginer suit of ringmail/chainmail/scale/plate
Begginer set of fire spells

It requires one of each of the items in the set eg a full suit of armour or a full set of t1 fire spells. It will create a new item removing those from your inventory when this item is used it will expand out to the full set and each piece can be scribed or equiped.

Much easier would just be to raise the connie limit. 10 was a step in the right direction and far better than 5 but 12 would have been better or 15.

[Tigris]

Whenever I get an itch to work on my Blight toon, I'm usually turned off and right back on order by this issue - nothing on the connies, and if there is newb starter gear, it's out of my price range. When I ask on the blightchannels for help, I'm sent to the Connies - as Phillip said, round and round we go.

Whenever I have T1-2 stuff extra I usually pawn it at Kion or Sslanis. Have they checked either of those Connies?If someone asks me for newbie armor, I'll make it in a heartbeat just 'cause they asked. [;)]

[evilkarl]

How many new players know there are chat channels, or player search or that kion and sslanis are t1 as well.

There is little in game to indicate any of this to new people. Any information in the booklet regarding where to hunt is likely void as well now.

[Aamer Khan]

There is a catch-22 aspect to all of this for sure.

However...

The real problem is a lack of information.

Example:
My wife started a new character not long ago, and wanting to depend on nobody else, has not looked to get free stuff from me. She has gone through the same laborious process that we all did, got her skills through effort, and willingly supplies what she crafts to new players on the starter islands. She makes money the same way we all did... (PB) She can afford to buy anything she needs. It only takes time and knowing what to do.

So, the best way to help, is to not do it for them, but to instruct them where to find the answers.

I am trying a number of methods to help guide newbies to the right information. I will keep you informed on what works.

[Sirra]

There are infact different ways to assist newbies. As I said, hunting with them at higher levels they don't get alot of experience, and doing the work for them in crafting is the same to an extent.

I've found that, for instance, with carpentry, feeding someone logs for them to convert to boards then to timbers and braces works well. I cut down elm logs at a rate of anywhere from 5 to 13 per chop, a friend of mine still gets 1 per chop even with a highest level tree axe that she can use. This works well because I cut 400+ logs per run in almost no time at all and she gained 3 levels quickly. I don't mind doing this, yes I don't get any xp, but the goodwill is what I consider worthwhile. This is a viable form of teaching that works well.

I do understand that there are those that will do nothing that doesn't gain them xp or money, these people don't understand the value of goodwill. That is their choice, personally, I choose the goodwill at times. I feel my time is well spent because I've helped someone and they remain in Istaria, in time they'll level to a point where I can play with them at a more equal level, it's a win-win situation.