Gatherer - The root of all evil

[Mensar]

Still need suggestions that do not include

1. It isn't broken. I disagree obviously.. that's why I posted so.. kinda moot. And so far nobody here has tried to level the non-prestige class (at least that has spoken up yet) the way it's meant to be leveled.

2. Bootstrap it.. This is a bandaid. The class shouldn't have to be bandaged if it works correctly. So suggesting that is validation of the fact that it's broken.

3. Giving workarounds. I'm truly thankful for the advice, but that's not what this thread is about. It's a suggestion on how to take a class that, so far, nobody can relate to having done and fix it.

4. Personal attacks. There's no value-added to attacking someone in the forums. Honestly. Stick to the OP.

5. Drama.. I get enough at home. Please stick to the OP.

Hopefully we can pull together as a community.istaria.com and get a solution to this into place rather than more ranting. Constructive criticism please I can take it! I think..

[Mensar]

2 weeks and only level 16 -.-.. quit doing the quests the regular xp is so much better.. and they are the hardest classes

This is good, I missed this post early on.

It validates
1. The quest turn in exp isn't up to par.
2. They are very very difficult to level

Any suggestion to fixing that?

[Mensar]

One good point I think he made was that the quest exp tends to be really a low piece of a level after a certain point

Good point.

Possibly examine the exp per quest for the gathering schoolsn and how other schools would get exp doing the same task. For example is a dragon crafter task is say make 50 malachite, the dragon will get a small bit of exp from making the gems, then a more when turned in. This combined amount could be compared to how the miner/gatherer schools work. Truth be told I only did those type quests a few times before realizing it was slow and inefficient way of leveling (I believe the dragon tasks give some exp + tokens).

I absolutely agree on both points.

1. Examine the exp and how it's received for the tasks relating to the class
2. Turn ins for trainers is slow and arduous. But, as a gatherer, it's all you have beyond the pittance you get from processing a raw material. Which is worse? Honestly? The exp for the turn-ins is far higher in terms of time than processing the material.. can you believe that?

[Steele]

Ya can't expect a dev team to go changing classes around just because of low server population, and I truly think that's part of what this is coming down to.

Years ago when Istaria launched, there really was quite a booming population. It wasn't as hard to level the "hard" classes because groups were almost always available and people worked together - alot. People needed each other - alot. There were folks who were pure miners and pure gatherers - they didn't level any other trade skills - and they made a (very GOOD) living by selling processed resources to lunatics like me, my wife, and many others who wanted all the help they could get levelling their finished-goods classes (I still have a few of their names on my friends list, actually). They had trouble keeping up with orders, the demand was so high. And ya know, I never heard them complain - ever - about how boring or monotonous it was because they were social & tradeskill hubs, not to mention the ones able to buy some of the best plots early on.

It's also rather like levelling Healer as your first adventure class... you have practically no offense but could last darn near forever in a fight. The problem there was, battles would take 5x longer than for any other adventure class that had a shred of offense, and solo adventuring became very boring and very monotonous; I certainly wouldn't recommend it now. Back then, though, decent Clerics/Healers rarely had to solo -EVERYONE wanted a Healer or Cleric in their group, and you were, quite literally, the life of the party.

Now, the server population isn't the same... we all hope it will be again someday, and I personally believe it's on the very long road back... but I would be appalled if the devs made Cleric/Healer easier to level just because someone chose to take the hard path, then complained about hard it was - especially given how trivial having L100 Healer/Cleric can make raising up any other adventure class. Same goes for Miner & Gatherer.

Yes, they're a tad monotonous, but they are a specialty class that has fewer options than other classes but is INSANELY efficient at what they do, and they have the power to really tip the scales of balance at higher levels, to render trivial the difficulty of raising multiple other trade classes.

Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's very worth it in the long run if you can stick with it. No, not all classes are for everyone... and I would hate to see the nerfing that would need to happen later if levelling miner/gatherer were trivialized, because as more people come back to the game or try it out for the first time, those classes will begin to shine again if/when the server population rebounds. Right now though, you're asking "what's the point to this being so hard?" You think it's broken because you don't understand the bigger picture, even when 15 other people explain otherwise, and you choose to reject most of their reasoning out-of-hand. No biped player should feel entitled to easily level every trade class to 100.

All I can say to try to make you understand, is Level Mason to 100 and start working Tier6, then imagine what another +100 stoneworking and an additional +300 quarrying would do for you... then you'll understand why all of us are so adamant in our stance. We see the bigger picture, we know the impact it would have to trivialize levelling those gathering classes, and we fear what it would do to the long-term health of one of the BIGGEST assets this game has to offer: it's crafting system.

If anything, perhaps a warning from the trainers that becoming an expert miner is a hard road, but with great dividends at the end, so that folks feel amply warned... but as far as the mechanics go, I would hate to see any drastic changes.

[rizo/nawkia]

Gatherer an miner were my first 100s miner easy, gems all the way from 45 about. Gatherer Extremely easy with mushrooms I remember the mushroom groups.. aww they were fun...1 load of t4 shrooms(stonespore) got me about 200k+ and i used that to 100 but its been lowered since I think shrooms are still the best xp outa all the gatherers arsenal tho?

A suggestion and imo is it very balanced.
-Make the shrooms to the experience they were. Take the fungal processing form off of trainers and addem to loot table(duno if they are already). As i see it Awsome xp deserves a rare form

Honestly tho i like it the way it is. I also agree with steele on this one.

[Mensar]

Ya can't expect a dev team to go changing classes around just because of low server population, and I truly think that's part of what this is coming down to.

I don't. I'm asking for changes because a class isn't functioning as other classes that give the same skills do. I'm not asking for 100% of the same exp. Just a boost to make it actually POSSIBLE intead of taking weeks per level when the same skills can be learned in other schools (starting to sound like a broken record here) and bootstrapped to raise gatherer in much less time.

Yes, they're a tad monotonous, but they are a specialty class

It's nearly impossible to get through tier 1 without outside help. I'd say that bridges the gap between monotonous and broken when.. again.. other classes can be leveled so much faster and then used to level gatherer. [this is a recording!]

Let's not forget the EPIC patience biped players have developed for making small gains over a period of time given the exp they get for adventuring once they multiclass a few times.

But you can't level another class and powerlevel yourself with adventure.

You can with this class. So the purposeful slow-going is a moot point.

No biped player should feel entitled to easily level every trade class to 100.

I agree, but that's a game mechanic. You can level up to 100 outfitter and use your skill at spinning to process ironsilk and rush gatherer INSANELY fast to at least 50 or 60 in probably 1/100th of the time it would normally take to level it the right way.

Also not suggesting drastic changes. But folks.. I say this again, if you feel giving TONS of extra exp for quest turn-ins is too much.. maybe recommend (for those of you that have actually done gatherer without bootstrapping it) something else?

[Mensar]

Gatherer an miner were my first 100s miner easy, gems all the way from 45 about. Gatherer Extremely easy with mushrooms I remember the mushroom groups.. aww they were fun...1 load of t4 shrooms(stonespore) got me about 200k+ and i used that to 100 but its been lowered since I think shrooms are still the best xp outa all the gatherers arsenal tho?

A suggestion and imo is it very balanced.
-Make the shrooms to the experience they were. Take the fungal processing form off of trainers and addem to loot table(duno if they are already). As i see it Awsome xp deserves a rare form

Honestly tho i like it the way it is. I also agree with steele on this one.

The mushrooms were what almost everyone used to level gatherer that are saying it's not broken. SO that's a good point, Rizo.

They have, since, fixed (nerfed or however you want to say it) the exp for fungal processing for strips. If this is how they did it then.. maybe they SHOULD go back and increase it to where it was.

What complaints could anyone have with that if that's how they leveled it?

DING! Score one for Rizo!

This is why I'm looking for input from non-boostrapper folks.. They've been there and found a way. In this case, something that no longer exists is what was used to level. Again, garnering more support for "it's broken now".

[Weston]

I'd better throw in my two cents. Mensar, you're off base here, and nearly everyone else has gotten it right. Part of the problem is the fact that you're coming from a Dragon perspective. Levelling Dragon Adventurer to 100 and Dragon Crafter to 100 (which gives Dragons max performance in all the relevant crafting skills simultaneously) does not in any way equip you to understand the biped game. It is for this reason (in reverse) that I generally refrain from commenting on, or criticizing, the game design as it relates to Dragondom. I am a biped. (As an aside, I HAVE a adult dragon, 70 Adv, 80 Crafting, who's been working to construct a lair for the first time. In doing so, I've gained respect and appreciation of how difficult laircrafting is.)

One thing hard for those of the dragon persuasion to do is understand that not all crafting class (or adventuring classes) are created equal. They're not ALL intended to give the same experience or be of equal difficulty (or benefit). They're designed to let the player CHOOSE his path. Originally, I doubt the devs ever intended or envisioned that someone would do ALL of the 19 crafting classes. Grandmaster Crafters were NOT part of the original equation. That only came long after a few dedicated crafters took the challenge as a personal one. I don't think one existed before the server merger, and I don't remember who the first on Chaos was (someone else will no doubt remember), but the 2nd (or maybe 3rd) was Guinness McGinnis, and I followed in his footsteps, the journey taking nearly two years of regular play time. Some, like Soth (on Chaos) chose the Adventuring path, trying to raise all Adventuring classes to 100. Again, I don't think the 'game plan' was to make that easy for anyone. But,the Devs at some point graciously added Trophy-hunting as a way for High Rating Adventurers to continue to gain xp, and level, other Adventuring Classes. Clearly this was not their plan at the outset, yet they have been very responsive, generally speaking.

The years have seen changes for crafters like Dyes added to Alchemy. That made levelling Alchemist easier. Adding Fungus Processing (and subsequent xp nerfs) made other schools easier. Processing Gems (and selling for coin) was a stable for Miners... and Gatherer was always hard. When a dev tells to you investigate Tannins, your..... ah, inexperience... led you to complain that somehow the school isn't awarding you fairly. That IS the way it was intended to work, and it works well for those of us who've spent years (unlike for dragons) levelling crafting. The pain of levelling, and the commensurate rewards for doing so are working as intended. What reward? If you raise Gatherer to 100, you've gained 11 points of Foraging skill per level. By comparison, Alchemy, Confectioner, Outfitter, Scholar, Tailor, and Weaver ALL use the Foraging Skill. But THEY only earn it at 7 or 8 points per level. Any idea what those extra points mean when you're out in the field grinding away to fill the disk? TIME (and money).

For the record, with Laircrafting, they piloted the idea of gaining xp for only primary skill use. Works reasonably well with Laircrafting, as near as I can tell with my limited experience (level 40-something laircrafter). If they implement that scheme with bipeds, then every school will have to be retooled, and this whole discussion will be moot.

As it is, I'd suggest patience, and learn the tricks of the trade from your biped crafting 'elders'. Sort of like a Hatchling dragon learning from an Ancient I'd guess....

For the past couple of years, I've had up webpages that contained some of the gleaning of my years of experience that you're welcome to peruse. It's purely statistical information. Strategies to make it more painless will have to come from these forum(s) or from in-game personal contact. I apologize in advance if this posting seems harsh or insensitive or cold. That's not my intent. My counsel is simply: Don't expect something to change just because FIND the system to be unwieldly or burdensome. Not all do. It's challenging and rewarding, as those who've done the time will attest. Best wishes on your continued biped experience.

See: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/pilgrim/Istaria/ (especially the resources on the bottom half of the page.)

[Mensar]

The more I think about this.. the more I think this is the real problem. Folks used what was available at the time (mushroom exp) and leveled gatherer or bootstrapped it. That's why some folks are saying it's not broken and I'm sitting here tearing out my hair wondering why, on earth, anyone would think that.

It's because it HAS CHANGED since it's inception. And the older players either knew to do outfitter/scholar first or they used mushrooms.

One is a bandaid and the other isn't an option anymore.

Does anyone have any OTHER experience with this class that doesn't involve either of those two? I'm going to guess probably "no". WHich means I'm the biggest idiot here for trying to do it without those two and I'm probably one of the few people that have the perspective on what needs to be changed.

Can I get an "AMEN"?

[Steele]

It's nearly impossible to get through tier 1 without outside help.

Please don't be so melodramatic, Mensar... that'll never win you any debates in this community.

It takes 8000xp to go from L19 to L20 and a L19 miner should earn, if I remember correctly, 3-4xp per bronze bar at that level (it's been a while, and I don't feel like making a new toon right now to test).

If making a maximum of 2.3k bronze bars makes it "nearly impossible" to gain the last Tier1 level of Miner, then you truly are not prepared for how many resources you'll be needing for biped construction... not to mention that attempting to do everything by yourself is kinda missing the point, and the spirit, of this game - entirely.

You've had plenty of good ideas on these boards, but one of the most valuable lessons in life is learning to choose your battles. This may be one of those times where it might be best to channel your passion and creative energies in a slightly different direction.

Bowing out, folks. See yas in game!

[Mensar]

The years have seen changes for crafters like Dyes added to Alchemy. That made levelling Alchemist easier. Adding Fungus Processing (and subsequent xp nerfs) made other schools easier. Processing Gems (and selling for coin) was a stable for Miners...

Exactly my point!

Things have changed....

Can anyone relate to the new way to do things?

and Gatherer was always hard. When a dev tells to you investigate Tannins, your..... ah, inexperience... led you to complain that somehow the school isn't awarding you fairly.

Despite this character board join date, I've been around since beta. Just because I'm bringing up an issue doesn't mean I don't know how most of their system works. In any case, my so called "inexperience" shouldn't be a factor in the weight of a logical suggestion based on facts and a perspective I have only seen one player come close to emulating so far.

And almost every class is balanced. This game thrives based on that balance and the devs work very very hard to maintain that balance. Which is why I brought up something very imbalanced.

If gatherer was the SOLE way to level the skills involved in the class, then having it take this long to level would make sense. There would be NO OTHER WAY to level it. But when you can level other classes that take 1/100th of the time to level.. and then pull gatherer up by the bootstraps.. well.. that makes the whole slow going moot.

and I'm not suggesting warp speed either. Good grief, people.

I'm suggesting a SMALL change to exp for turn ins for gatherer, a change to the exp for processing raw materials or something similar. All of you that used other classes or mushrooms or some odd exploit or other to level gatherer don't really have the perspective to comment on how broken or not broken a skill is if you haven't actually DONE the class.

Make sense?

I'm looking for other suggestions, but all I'm seeing is resistance to a change that wouldn't even make the class as viable as it was back when it was originally created

You'd think I was trying to tear the fabric of the world apart and summon demons to raid towns or something.

Think about what would make this a better suggestion, not about how to get around the fact that it's broken, or how it doesn't need to change if you've never actually leveled it

[Mensar]

Please don't be so melodramatic, Mensar... that'll never win you any debates in this community.

Thanks for pointing that out. The word "impossible" wasn't meant as an absolute. Impossible being a relative comparison to other classes.

It takes 8000xp to go from L19 to L20

Then maybe that's part of the problem.. it takes 14k to get from 15 to 16 and 16K to get from 16 to 17 for gatherer... now we're talkin! Possibly the exp tables are broken for gatherer which could explain why it takes so long. Heck if it was 8K that would be more than 70% faster if level 19 requires 19K for gatherer!

If making a maximum of 2.3k bronze bars makes it "nearly impossible" to gain the last Tier1 level of Miner, then you truly are not prepared for how many resources you'll be needing for biped construction... not to mention that attempting to do everything by yourself is kinda missing the point, and the spirit, of this game - entirely.

The whole reason I started doing everything myself, at least on the biped side, was because I bought a plot and asked for help building it for almost 3 weeks without a single response.

Oh believe me, I know spirit in the game.... they're incarnated as Knossos and C`gan. They've been the most supportive for information and help of anyone I can name as far as bipeds go.. I bug them every day, haha. So I know spirit, believe me. They're just like Tsargoth on the dragon side.. never hesitates to help no matter what other things he's got going on.. I have to tell him NOT to drop what he's doing sometimes or he can't help.. it's like reverse psychology and there's nothing I wouldn't do for them.

Besides maybe dropping this thread because what I"m about to show you.. will surprise and amaze you:

It would be, in terms of wood and at the current level of skill, and presuming level 19 is approximately 19K (considering 15 to 16 is 14K, and 15 to 16 is 16k then 19 to 20 may be 22K, I don't know yet) then it will take approximately 9K boards and that's with a level 15 disk which only holds 4,000 bulk (about 500 logs) at 2 exp per board at 2 or 3 logs per board (let's assume 2 for ease of math) that's 500 exp per load.. at 10 minutes per load

(19,000 exp/500 exp per disk) = 38 Trips * 10 minutes per load = 380 minutes or 6.3 hours..

Over six hours for ONE level, a Tier 1 level at that.. This class needs attention

Side note: Biped construction, with all due respect to it.. is SOO easy compared to lairshaping. I've leveled up to T2 in every construction school in less than a week of casual play and created most of my plot in the process. (and that's using two gatherers that still aren't even optimal at T1 resouce processing yet) You may have 5 schools and 10 building components, but you'll never know the pain of flowstones, hehe.

It's not a question of my dedication to the class. Just the opposite, I'm trying to fix it for the better.

You've had plenty of good ideas on these boards, but one of the most valuable lessons in life is learning to choose your battles. This may be one of those times where it might be best to channel your passion and creative energies in a slightly different direction.

Well, that's part of the problem.. I can't seem to get anyone to go in the right direction, lol.

It's a suggestion thread. C'mon folks.. suggest!

Any class that takes (based on the above math) 6 hours for one level needs some work.

[Guaran]

After seeing the responces. I think my only real suggestion would be to make these 2 schools have base requirements to join. "Prestige" if you will. They ARE prestige level Processing + Gathering schools, although there currently is no requirements to join. (see horizons.gamersinfo.net which DOES mark these schools as "Prestige", with information that came directly from Tulga/Vitrium. They simply lack an entrance requirement)

Since they are in fact "Prestige" schools, the only thing "Broken" or missing is the lack of an entrance requirement. Until such time as this is fixed, understand HOW a prestige school would normally work. In that you need to join another craft school first and raise it to level 20 to obtain the pre-req skills this school should have. (For miner, take blacksmith to 20, for Gatherer, take outfitter or scholar to 20 first.)

If this is ever changed by the dev's, I sincerely do hope that these 2 schools still start out at level 1, so that the 10 processing skill/level is maintained, which is the only thing really making these schools useful.

That's all you really need to understand. There's also been alot of good advice in this thread which will prove very beneficial should you choose to follow it.

[Steele]

Ok, just to amend and possibly correct my numbers.

According to http://horizonsvault.ign.com/View.ph...es.Detail&id=8, which may be outdated, it takes 5,600 experience to go from 17 to 18. Perhaps the table's wrong. As I said, it's been a while... I don't have any classes that low to verify first-hand, and unfortunately I don't have time right now to test it personally. My apologies if the numbers were off, but at this point I'll agree that we'll (most of the posting community, it would seem) simply disagree with ya on this.

[Mensar]

After seeing the responces. I think my only real suggestion would be to make these 2 schools have base requirements to join. "Prestige" if you will. They ARE prestige level Processing + Gathering schools, although there currently is no requirements to join. (see horizons.gamersinfo.net which DOES mark these schools as "Prestige", with information that came directly from Tulga/Vitrium. They simply lack an entrance requirement)

Since they are in fact "Prestige" schools, the only thing "Broken" or missing is the lack of an entrance requirement. Until such time as this is fixed, understand HOW a prestige school would normally work. In that you need to join another craft school first and raise it to level 20 to obtain the pre-req skills this school should have. (For miner, take blacksmith to 20, for Gatherer, take outfitter or scholar to 20 first.)

If this is ever changed by the dev's, I sincerely do hope that these 2 schools still start out at level 1, so that the 10 processing skill/level is maintained, which is the only thing really making these schools useful.

That's all you really need to understand. There's also been alot of good advice in this thread which will prove very beneficial should you choose to follow it.

The knowledge here has been overwhelming. So much experience, yes.

And I think making it a prestige class will only make bootstrapping mandatory. The exp issue will still be an issue although you would probably get a boost through T1 which, so far, is the extent of my experience with gatherer and where I feel the source of the problem is (I really hope it's not like this once you break through to T2).

But adding "turn in" quests for the whole tier would help alleviate that dead zone on the second half of the tier.. and a small exp boost per turn in would also help a bit.

[Mensar]

Ok, just to amend and possibly correct my numbers.

According to http://horizonsvault.ign.com/View.ph...es.Detail&id=8, which may be outdated, it takes 5,600 experience to go from 17 to 18. Perhaps the table's wrong. As I said, it's been a while... I don't have any classes that low to verify first-hand, and unfortunately I don't have time right now to test it personally. My apologies if the numbers were off, but at this point I'll agree that we'll (most of the posting community, it would seem) simply disagree with ya on this.

This may very well be the issue then. It takes 16K to get to 17, much less to 18 for a gatherer. So apparently something has changed.. yet another thing which adds to the distance placed between those that have already leveled gatherer and their ability to lock into perspective the problem with the class as it is now.

[Mensar]

My suggestions (updated) any portion or combination (or, ideally, all three) would be a step in the right direction.

1. Add the "turn in" portion of the quests to the entire tier not just to the front end of the tier (I.E. giving raw material for exp to the gatherer trainer all the time not just for the first 10 levels of a tier since the hardest time to level is the second half anyway)

2. Add exp to the turn ins (this part makes even more sense considering most people that leveled gatherer in the past did so with a lower exp table requirement for each level, mushrooms that boosted exp and/or bootstrapping)

3. Add exp to the processing of base resources for gatherer (again, this makes sense considering the exp table change, the time involved.. 6 hours per level? and the lack of any processing outlet for exp beyond tannins which, for the cedar tannins, are only better exp because more of them fit into a disk.. and the cedar leather is better.. to a degree, but that gets diluted by the fact you have to gather two components so it takes twice as long to gather and the skill requirement is mid-tier so it definitely should be higher exp, but nothing to write home about)

I submit that the following is true.

Most people used another class to bootstrap gatherer
Most people used mushrooms, which are now a lower exp value, to level gatherer
The exp tables, at some point, have changed.. and apparently tripled according to older online resources.
It's not an prestige class (not sure why it would be since it involved gathering) yet it basically mandates that you use other classes to level it.

Hopefully I can get some folks on board here that can see the perspective beginning to form of why it's not working as it's probably intended.

Everyone has been great so far in pointing out the reasons why they think it's not broken. But with the new information everyone is providing, I think there's a dark cloud forming.

[rizo/nawkia]

Not all classes are balanced from what i can tell and see. Alchemist need enchanting to make some potions that use tensile suspensions. Conf needs gath for fish. and im sure some other classes that i havent thought of atm do to. This also pops up in adv scouts are painfully hard right off the bat and so are battle mages since they get 10 in nothing. And again im sure there might be more. From what i can tell the whole concept of multiclassing is for classes to depend on each other so i think (bootstrapping as ya call it) (multiclassin as i call it) is meant to be otherwise its just a pain to level alone.

Miner is in the exact same boat. All the exp is pretty low and the ONLY reason gems are the answer is because they have low bulk and when ya processem ya get that chunk of xp low bulk+full disk=lota xp

I do think that shrooms are still the best xp for a gatherer from the last time i tried. They do have a higher skill req tho youlll see what i mean if ya try them. And they are hard to find in large quantities they are generaly spread out such as the shrooms north of heather in the oak forest. They need a tanning blade and the deer tanin thingy.

[Aaelefein]

About 18 months ago, I started a project where I recorded the XP requirements from levle to level. I made an excel spreadsheet that tracks this XP as well as a skill gained per level comparison...

http://www.baneoftheaegis.com/Horizo...on%20Chart.htm

I've tested it recently while leveling some adventure schools, and it still seems applicable all the way to level 100. I have heard there are some slight differences depending on what adventure school you are in, but for the most part, it is accurate for all craft and adventure schools.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now one point was mentioned, and while not trying to derail this thread, it is the affect the change to the Pawnbrokers had on the Gatherer and Miner Schools. Even if there weren't player characters ready to buy crafted basic resources, those two schools always had the opportunity to sell their wares to the Imperial Pawnbrokers in each town which made the tedious task of leveling them no so tedious when you saw your grouk bank getting bigger and bigger as you leveled. This is no longer the case...that incentive has been removed and as Steele pointed out, the much smaller server population most likely has a negative affect on benefit vs reward when leveling these two schools.

As far as changes go, I too think they should be made prestige classes. I also believe the trainers for these two schools should never have been put on New Trismus during the new-player experience revamp...they never used to be there before...it was always Aughundel (miner) and well...can't remember where gatherer is...but the idea of the Miner trainer being in Aughundell ( T5 City) said something about the class...at least it did me.

[Velea]

One good point I think he made was that the quest exp tends to be really a low piece of a level after a certain point, and that a new player 'could' get caught up in this school not really knowing any better. There is a miner trainer on New Trismus who even has some quests.

Man, talk about a no win situation! I actually had increased the experience gained for doing the tasks on Miner and Gatherer tasks in a recent set of patches, and people complained. The thread is somewhere on the forums, in fact.