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Thread: Death System & Food

  1. #1

    Default Death System & Food

    Death and Dying

    Purpose:

    To discourage players from reckless (Rambo style) fighting in the
    world of Istaria and to a lesser extent to promote group
    participation. (History lesson-there is safety in numbers)
    Comparison:
    The current system is old, outdated, overly complex, whacky,
    smells funny, has bad breath, doesn't call it's mother on Mother's
    Day, makes fun of crippled people and double dips.
    Summary:
    A detailed outline of the replacement system will be described
    using existing game infrastructure and dynamics. This will include
    death as it pertains to the effects it has on players starting from
    acquisition to removal.

    Acquisition

    How to Acquire "Death Points"
    Each death point is a marker of how many deaths have occurred giving
    one death point after each death. Currently there is a grace period
    for players level 10 and below will receive no death regardless of
    how many times they have died.

    What are the Effects of a Death Point? A Death Penalty
    A death penalty serves the purpose of slowing down (or hindering)
    the process (or the rate) of the characters' leveling. Currently a
    death penalty is a period of time that the character suffers
    dramatic statistical loss on their character sheet resulting in a
    weakened state. The death penalty increases in duration based on a
    mathematical formula that includes the number of death points
    acquired results in a blackout period of weakened state that will be
    restored after the death penalty timer decreases to 0, thereby
    restoring the character to full stats. The loss of stats during the
    death penalty is also calculated by some means to result in lower
    statistics for the character.
    This weakened state does not fit the criteria for a penalty because
    it effectively makes the character unable enter combat similar to
    how they would prior to acquiring a death penalty, likewise the
    death penalty is temporary but the death count is incremental yet
    the death penalty is based on accumulation of death points. Death
    penalties are currently death sentences. This does not fit the purpose of death.

    Proposal or Ultimate IDEA
    Revision of the death system is mandatory for the development of the
    game. The proposal will take into account all of the following:
    disparity in level/rating, casual gamer vs. power game,
    confectioners role, economic value and marketability.

    Converting from a death sentence to a death penalty
    Death points will be acquired by suffering an unfortunate demise.
    This is now a direct relationship of death points to death penalty.
    Earning one death point for each death but how does this affect the
    character? As a penalty for dying the death point will artificially
    increment the character rating by 1 thus off setting the amount of
    experience the character would normally get from defeating an
    opponent their own rating and has no other statistical degradation.
    This approach will hinder experience gain but will not handicap the
    player in combat versus an opponent their own level compared to
    before the death penalty was invoked. The dynamics of this penalty
    would require a character to now fight someone their own rating to
    achieve the same amount of experience they would have achieved for
    defeating an opponent of their uninflated rating. Subsequent
    increments in rating will eventually make experience very slow with
    lessening gains. This is a penalty.

    What happens to rating inflation as it pertains to unauthorized
    behavior.
    TigerLilly7005bso just created a new character rating one but
    decides to artificially inflate her character by means of repeated
    deaths to a modified rating 100. Now she can go with her level 100
    friends and kill level 100's and get the level 100 experience. Well
    that's great isn't it. Well keep in mind that it's called a penalty
    for a reason it's not a death bonus. As described above even though
    TigerLilly7005bso has a modified rating and defeats a rating 100
    opponent with her friends sadly to her disappointment she will only
    receive the full experience equal to what she would have gotten had
    she defeated a level one. That is the same for defeating someone
    above your inflated rating when you have a death penalty. It's
    capped at what you would have gotten had you defeated an opponent
    your own level. The penalty includes a maximum experience cap of
    same rating kills. Don't get too many or you know what happens, this
    creature isn't worth any experience to you.

    Elimination

    The process of eliminating death points and in turn your death
    penalty to restore you back to your good old self. Understanding and
    respecting that all players are not created equal, some being on for
    shorter or longer periods of time than others presents fairness and
    equality dilemma. Two approaches neatly and custom tailored to each
    group of players is demonstrated here. I like to refer to the
    players that takes sips instead of gulps as the casual gamer and
    obviously the others are power gamers with the insatiable hunger for
    istaria. The casual gamer sometimes gets on before work or after or
    at night before bed or any other number of combinations or
    scenarios. The power gamer, well we know who we are...I’m not
    playing a game I’m Lord Ssaris the Gifted and I defeat the evil in
    istaria.

    Well what does this mean to me since I only play for short periods
    at a time or infrequently?
    There is a passive method to removal of death points which is to do
    nothing and they will wear off in time. But when? How? Tell me more?
    Choosing an arbitrary time of 7 hours, from the time you receive
    your first death point whereby any incrementing of death points
    after that will be purged after the seven hour timer goes to 0. That
    works for me, I’ll be back from work by then or I won't be back on
    until late at night anyway. This method doesn't not compound a
    penalty for being a casual gamer and in turn provides the power
    gamer with options instead of directives which are currently in
    place.

    What if I don't want to wait can't I speed it up somehow? Of course
    you can eat some food. Food has been a source of replenishment since
    time began but all the numbers and restrictions and chaotic
    attributes of the different foods really left many istarians
    fasting, indefinitely. With food and death being interconnected any
    changes to death must include changes to food.
    What is istarian food? Food comes in four categories appetizers,
    sides, main dish, desserts. The food from each category makes a
    meal. To remove one death point you must eat an appetizer, side,
    main dish, desert for your level. Only after eating all four do you
    remove a single death point making each individual food ineffective
    at removing a death point by itself consumed repeatedly.

    Market and Economy

    When adventurers create demand for food the supply will increase to
    satisfy demand in the event of shortage obviously value will
    increase and vice versa. This will create a robust market for food
    as a real benefit and providing tangible usefulness.

  2. #2
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death System & Food

    *g* interesting summary

  3. #3

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Interesting idea, but the DP system was already re-done once.

    While it is not as good a system as many would like, I'd much rather see time spent elsewhere instead of getting constantly hung up on any one thing and re-doing it over and over. The game would never grow that way.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian View Post
    Interesting idea,
    Thank you.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    I assume this is related to your feelings in the ancient thread that the current system is not working. I thank you for typing up your suggestions and posting them here.

    However, I would like to hear more about what in the current system you feel isn't working. Proposals are great, but I'm not convinced that the system needs overhaul again.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  6. #6

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Proposals are great, but I'm not convinced that the system needs overhaul again.
    What specifically would be the criteria for convincing you? After knowing the criteria then I can begin a convincing argument based on facts for your review and assessment.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Mostly I am not convinced that anything is wrong with it. A lot of planning and thought was put into the system. So if there are specific areas that aren't meeting the goals of the system then that is what I am interested to hear.

    What in your opinion is broken about it?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #8

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Mostly I am not convinced that anything is wrong with it. A lot of planning and thought was put into the system. So if there are specific areas that aren't meeting the goals of the system then that is what I am interested to hear.

    What in your opinion is broken about it?
    You keep saying broken and not working. It's not a leaking bucket or a car that stalls.
    You say a lot of planning and thought went into the creation of the system which must mean you have somewhere a write-up or other document that had all the pros and cons and in depth measures and countermeasures for why the system functions the way it does currently. This would make any point I make insignificant because from your point of view you have "the big picture" and I don't. So thanks for the loaded question but no thanks.
    If you're really interested to hear what's broken (even though I believe i did a fair job describing the current system in the first post), please be forth coming and disclose a summary of your write up including the death penalty, death points, timers, affects of food, how it affects gamers of different intesity of play fit into all this, how the seemingly random numbers came to be...etc. You might be a genius and the system might be the best thing since sliced bread but if you're serious and we're going to talk on the same level about this issue you need to show me yours because i've already shown you mine.


    "skimming and replying should be illegal"

  9. #9

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    No offense, whosha, but I can't read your mind so I don't know what issues YOU personally have with the Confectioner/Death system that led you to write up the initial proposal.

    THAT is what I am asking for. Here's one write-up on the system:

    http://community.istaria.com/news/?id=103

    And here's the original write-up, though some of it became obsolete during development.

    http://community.istaria.com/news/?id=58

    The goals of the system, however, did not. Anyway, I thank you for taking the time to write up your proposal. Have a great day.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  10. #10

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by whosha View Post
    Converting from a death sentence to a death penalty

    Death points will be acquired by suffering an unfortunate demise.
    This is now a direct relationship of death points to death penalty.
    Earning one death point for each death but how does this affect the
    character? As a penalty for dying the death point will artificially
    increment the character rating by 1 thus off setting the amount of
    experience the character would normally get from defeating an
    opponent their own rating and has no other statistical degradation.
    If I read that correctly, Death would no longer have any affect on a player with a high rating or playing a level 100 character. They are not trying to earn more XP anyway.

    Those with ratings of 240+ (or somewhere around there) would never suffer any type of penalty for death since they aren't earning experience anyway.
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

  11. #11

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by whosha View Post
    Choosing an arbitrary time of 7 hours, from the time you receive
    your first death point whereby any incrementing of death points
    after that will be purged after the seven hour timer goes to 0.
    Are you saying that I get a death point, the timer starts. I play for 7 hours after that and accumulate 32 death points. And then at the point of 7 hours from my initial death point, I have ALL death points removed?
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

  12. #12

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    If I read that correctly, Death would no longer have any affect on a player with a high rating or playing a level 100 character. They are not trying to earn more XP anyway.

    Those with ratings of 240+ (or somewhere around there) would never suffer any type of penalty for death since they aren't earning experience anyway.
    Whether you're trying or not you're still recieving experience per kill even at level 100 or as your extreme example states 240+. So no you're not exempt from death points but nice try though

  13. #13

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    Are you saying that I get a death point, the timer starts. I play for 7 hours after that and accumulate 32 death points. And then at the point of 7 hours from my initial death point, I have ALL death points removed?
    As stated in the post.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by whosha View Post
    Whether you're trying or not you're still recieving experience per kill even at level 100 or as your extreme example states 240+. So no you're not exempt from death points but nice try though
    At rank 240, I don't think that you receive any experience per kill, even on level 120 Elite Blights. I could be wrong about that though.

    Even at rank 174, with 5 death points raising me to rank 179, I get a little less xp, but not as large a percentage as a level rank 20 raised to rank 25. The higher your rank, the less death is going to matter.
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

  15. #15

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    At rank 240, I don't think that you receive any experience per kill, even on level 120 Elite Blights. I could be wrong about that though.
    You do so no one is exempt from the death point system. There isn't much else to disagree on now that your single main point was diffused. Instead how about a suggestion or tweaking to add to the discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    Even at rank 174, with 5 death points raising me to rank 179, I get a little less xp, but not as large a percentage as a level rank 20 raised to rank 25. The higher your rank, the less death is going to matter.
    It's relational to each character's own level/rating. That's really comparing apples to oranges now.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by whosha View Post
    You do so no one is exempt from the death point system. There isn't much else to disagree on now that your single main point was diffused. Instead how about a suggestion or tweaking to add to the discussion?
    Maybe not 240, I'm not sure at what rank, but I know players that I've talked to that get experience ONLY from epic mobs, they get 0 experience from level 120 mobs. So that does make them unaffected by your proposed penalty.
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

  17. #17

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    Maybe not 240, I'm not sure at what rank, but I know players that I've talked to that get experience ONLY from epic mobs, they get 0 experience from level 120 mobs. So that does make them unaffected by your proposed penalty.
    What's your suggestion?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    I don't have a suggestion. I don't think there is anything wrong with the current DP system and I've seen nothing posted to convince me otherwise.
    I read your whole post, and I'll be open minded to anyone else's post, but I don't think that your current proposals work. Death would become less and less of a factor as you get higher ranked.
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

  19. #19

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by GalemThawn View Post
    Death would become less and less of a factor as you get higher ranked.
    It's already been stated that it's relational per your level/rating noone gets special treatment just because you're higher level/rating. Now that that's been dispelled for the second time what is really the issue?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Death System & Food

    Quote Originally Posted by whosha View Post
    It's already been stated that it's relational per your level/rating noone gets special treatment just because you're higher level/rating. Now that that's been dispelled for the second time what is really the issue?
    Just because you say it's been dispelled doesn't mean it's so.
    It's not dispelled because it's VERY true.

    The percentage of rating change from 20 to 25 is much greater than from 95 to 100. The experince difference from going to rank 25 as a true rank 20 is going to be a lot more drastic than the experience change of going to rank 100 from rank 95.

    Personally, I have rank 174. I have no plans to ever level another school. So really, death would have no effect at all on me. I wouldn't care about experience until the very distant future when all Tier revamps have been done and Tier 6 is introduced, raising the cap to a possible level 120.
    Grandmaster of Flame: Simultaneous solo of 4 Phantom Mages, 2 Death Dealers, 1 Ogre Bodyguard
    Siggurd's Protégée: Smelting 1600+

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