Death System & Food

[Vortura]

When one of the devs responds with "thank you.... have a great day" after you refused to say what is wrong or poorly implemented with the current system and why your idea was superior, I think you should accept this as a proposal that never went anywhere and without hope of ever seeing the light of day.

I'm thankful the whole Confectioner and Death Point system revamp has already happened, and frankly even if you could articulate why your system was better than the existing one, I would prefer the continued development of the new "end game" content.

I look forward to the time when I can hunt somewhere and/or something different, especially with the current death point system that has an effect on me and makes me modify my playing and hunting style to cope with the penalty.

[Valornyx]

When one of the devs responds with "thank you.... have a great day" after you refused to say what is wrong or poorly implemented with the current system and why your idea was superior

Not entirely true .. hehe

The current system is old, outdated, overly complex, whacky,
smells funny, has bad breath, doesn't call it's mother on Mother's
Day, makes fun of crippled people and double dips.

See - there you have it.

[Valtaeair]

What in your opinion is broken about it?

As someone who loathes crafting and would much rather spend their time fighting with bitey scratchy things..

What I see as the first problem with the death mechanic, is the Death Penalty debuff effect.
I can understand being weaker after dieing - this is all but standard in online gaming and meant as a warning to be more careful (or stop using dial-up ).

It is because the debuff can get to be quite lengthy, that is an issue. Typically in MMOs, the debuffs for death/resurrection last no longer then 10 minutes, whereas in Istaria (intended or not) it could last a theoretical time of days.
Food does not shorten that time.
In my opinion, if you sit down to eat some, it should also have a degree of effectiveness on the debuff timer. For example, a food that may reduce Point time by 60 minutes, should remove Penalty time 5%-10% of that.

My second issue with the death mechanic, is what the Penalty reduces.

-Statistic reduction is ok. Making you kill a bit slower gives you the chance to evaluate what caused you to die in the first place.
-Skill reduction is ok. You just died. Your muscles are probably sore and your nerves are shot for a bit.
-Speed reduction is not ok. Being snared for 5 minutes is bad. Being snared for 30 minutes is bordering ridiculous. In addition to time, the snaring effect of death also makes it more likely that you will die again, because you're now too slow to escape a dangerous situation. This can cause a domino effect of deaths.
-Health reduction is not ok. Even a HP reduction of just 10%, greatly increases the chance of another death, and subsequent domino effect. Let alone a health reduction that could last 30 minutes. Or an hour!

The combination of Health and Speed reductions, and inability to shorten the Penalty timer itself while eating, are what make the death mechanic so insanely frustrating, for me at least.

Those three things combined, I think, are what gives the impression of Istaria forcing you to stop playing, when you die.

[Velea]

But Valtaeair, food totally removes your death point, and thus from the death penalty from ever happening. If you die, you gain a death point. If you eat your food and clear that death point, then you don't get a death penalty at all. No death points = no death penalty.

So the simple answer to your problem is to stop dying repeatedly during the time that you have any death points. Or take the time out to clear your death points by eating food.

I rarely get any actual death penalty because I've learned that if I die twice, it's time to go clear out death points. The first one I'll sometimes ignore, but rarely the second unless I know that I'm going to not be adventuring for a while.

There is also a cap on how long the death penalty can last regardless of how many death points you've wracked up, but I can't remember off hand how long that is.

[Valtaeair]

But Valtaeair, food totally removes your death point, and thus from the death penalty from ever happening. If you die, you gain a death point. If you eat your food and clear that death point, then you don't get a death penalty at all. No death points = no death penalty.

That implies two things:
-That food is readibly available 24 hours a day.
-That people enjoy staring at the tavern wall for 30 minutes everytime they die, clicking food.

I never have less then 6 DP's, personally.
After coming back to Istaria after a year+ away, by the end of my first week back re-learning the game.. I had 17
Fairly normal for me to die 2-3 times per day.. so that's 1.5 hours of staring at said wall in a tavern.. eating the food that may or may not be available at 4am.

I'm not really wanting to jump into the debate of it all.. merely pointing out the specific things of the system that bother me, which is more productive then just saying "This system sucks!".

[Hoberton]

That implies two things:
-That food is readibly available 24 hours a day.
-That people enjoy staring at the tavern wall for 30 minutes everytime they die, clicking food.

I never have less then 6 DP's, personally.
After coming back to Istaria after a year+ away, by the end of my first week back re-learning the game.. I had 17
Fairly normal for me to die 2-3 times per day.. so that's 1.5 hours of staring at said wall in a tavern.. eating the food that may or may not be available at 4am.

I'm not really wanting to jump into the debate of it all.. merely pointing out the specific things of the system that bother me, which is more productive then just saying "This system sucks!".

Why not join the confectioner school and make your own food. That way you will not have to depend on others to have food available. You could actually make the food yourself. Befriend a confectioner if this is not in your liking.

I could comment about not dying as often as you do but have found that is often taken the wrong way. Will leave that decision up to you.

[Valtaeair]

Why not join the confectioner school

I'm a dragon.

[Hoberton]

I'm a dragon.

Well, then do what I also posted.

Befriend a confectioner.

And to further not cause confusion. Add a signature to your posts letting others know who and what you are.

[Valtaeair]

I don't beg for help, it's not in my characters roleplay. Dragon or bi-ped.
Yeah, "That's on me", as I'm sure the next reply will state.

In any case, I stated my concerns with specific points of the death mechanic, which concludes my participation in this thread.

G'day.

[Hoberton]

WOW!!! How do you get "beg for help" from "Befriend a Confectioner".

[Drakarr]

I don't know about Order, but on Chaos, in the Bristugo tavern, as far as i've seen, food of many types are available 24 hours a day..alot of it. and it does not take 30 min to get rid of a Point unless you are using only one type of meal.

As to the OP...how does this proposed system affect me. A lvl 100 Dragon. Or, as a previous poster stated, a ped at lvl 100 who has no desire to change schools and thusly needs no exp, I noticed you have answered many other statements and questions, but have avoided that point.

[Shian]

Same on Order. Food is usually available in Aug 24 hours.

[awdz]

That people enjoy staring at the tavern wall for 30 minutes everytime they die, clicking food

Fairly normal for me to die 2-3 times per day.. so that's 1.5 hours of staring at said wall in a tavern

??? i did not think it takes more than 10 min to get rid of a dp in a tavern if you are eating food of the right tier - 2 different appetizers, mains, sides and desserts (total 8 foods), eating first one meal then the second. are you eating right?

[whosha]

Your method does NOT discourage this for level 100 Dragons, players in a level 100 school, or for the few players with a rating of 243+. Rather, this proposal may encourage level 100 Dragons to fight more Rambo style. Jump in there as a powerhouse damage dealer, die, get rezzed, continue fighting, die 100 times, suffer no penalty and keep right on fighting after every rez.

I am intentionally not addressing the part of my proposal that handles exceptional characters. This will be revealed at a later date in a new thread after more constructive criticism is made in this thread. Please focus on the topic as it has been presented in the original post for discussion.

[Drakarr]

Dragons at lvl 100 are not exceptional (unless you mean wonderful and all powerful) characters. There are actually quite a few of us. Besides, i'm not sure the system would work too well giving Dragons a different type of penalty. Also, there is no way for the game to distinguish between players who will never switch out of their lvl 100 class and those who will, therefore, if somehow you devised something to penalize one who will not ever need exp again, it would have to be implemented across the board and then double penalize people who do need exp with both the OP penalty and the one for those who dont need exp.

[whosha]

As someone who loathes crafting and would much rather spend their time fighting with bitey scratchy things..

What I see as the first problem with the death mechanic, is the Death Penalty debuff effect.
I can understand being weaker after dieing - this is all but standard in online gaming and meant as a warning to be more careful (or stop using dial-up ).

It is because the debuff can get to be quite lengthy, that is an issue. Typically in MMOs, the debuffs for death/resurrection last no longer then 10 minutes, whereas in Istaria (intended or not) it could last a theoretical time of days.
Food does not shorten that time.
In my opinion, if you sit down to eat some, it should also have a degree of effectiveness on the debuff timer. For example, a food that may reduce Point time by 60 minutes, should remove Penalty time 5%-10% of that.

My second issue with the death mechanic, is what the Penalty reduces.

-Statistic reduction is ok. Making you kill a bit slower gives you the chance to evaluate what caused you to die in the first place.
-Skill reduction is ok. You just died. Your muscles are probably sore and your nerves are shot for a bit.
-Speed reduction is not ok. Being snared for 5 minutes is bad. Being snared for 30 minutes is bordering ridiculous. In addition to time, the snaring effect of death also makes it more likely that you will die again, because you're now too slow to escape a dangerous situation. This can cause a domino effect of deaths.
-Health reduction is not ok. Even a HP reduction of just 10%, greatly increases the chance of another death, and subsequent domino effect. Let alone a health reduction that could last 30 minutes. Or an hour!

The combination of Health and Speed reductions, and inability to shorten the Penalty timer itself while eating, are what make the death mechanic so insanely frustrating, for me at least.

Those three things combined, I think, are what gives the impression of Istaria forcing you to stop playing, when you die.

I like to call it what it is, a time-out. Anyone that doesn't agree with what you're saying would make me question their motive of replying. I don't think anyone wakes up in the morning saying that they can't wait to sit in the dunce corner.

[GalemThawn]

Shian
This proposed system also does not take into account the 'harder' levels. The ones where you are already gaining less xp as it is because you are too high for one tier, but too low for your next one as you do not have the correct armor. For dragons this is 16-19, 36-39, 56-59 and 76-79...

whosha
I am intentionally not addressing the part of my proposal that handles exceptional characters. This will be revealed at a later date in a new thread after more constructive criticism is made in this thread. Please focus on the topic as it has been presented in the original post for discussion.

Galem
Your method does NOT discourage this for level 100 Dragons, players in a level 100 school

whosha
I am intentionally not addressing the part of my proposal that handles exceptional characters. This will be revealed at a later date in a new thread after more constructive criticism is made in this thread.

So, all Dragons and level 100 bipeds basically have a completely different death point/penalty system from all other characters?

whosha
Please focus on the topic as it has been presented in the original post for discussion.

I HAVE been focusing on nothing but the topic AS it has been presented in the original post.

[Drakarr]

Having a character at 100 is exceptional?
But untill I see how this would affect ALL characters, commenting on it will have to wait for me.

[Deth]

I am intentionally not addressing the part of my proposal that handles exceptional characters. This will be revealed at a later date in a new thread after more constructive criticism is made in this thread. Please focus on the topic as it has been presented in the original post for discussion.

my thoughts are haveing two systems for the same thing will just lead to problems and complaints down the road and are also harder to balance.

[whosha]

So, all Dragons and level 100 bipeds basically have a completely different death point/penalty system from all other characters?

I don't feel enough constructive criticism has been made pertaining to the original topic five main points. It does appear that during the course of this discussion if no one has any bias for the remaining four main points then a more in depth look needs to be taken or in the majority of the case for the replying members they need to read the entire original post. To introduce more main points which include but are not limited to how death affects an exceptional character would not be beneficial for this topic.