Dragon lairs - prices

[Enter]

Enter, what price were you expecting to pay for a plot of what size? Or were you looking to purchase a lair, and if so of what size? It would help to know what you were expecting to pay, what you'd saved, that sort of thing.

Thanks

I'd like something at least 60X60.
I have been playing for 53 days and have exactly 426 silver. That's 8s/day.
Almost ALL of that has come from selling resources on the Brist connie.
I can say with authority that the market for resources has almost completely dried up. In fact I had several stacks returned to my vault for failure to sell last week. My prices are the standard ones that have worked in the past.
Everyone is waiting for auctions so there is VERY little plot building going on right now.
ANY plot over 3 gold BASE price is overpriced in my view.
I know that there are players who will pay MUCH more than that at auction for the largest plots. That is fine. I'm talking about BASE price, what they will sell for after the auctions are over.
Here is a sample price list:
50X50 - 400s
60X60 - 600s
75X75 - 900s
90X90 - 1.2g
100X100 - 1.75g
125X125 - 2.5g

[velveeta]

well, if it helps with perspective, i paid 12gp for the cheese palace (101x101)........
except for the other players' buildings and such on their plots, the only thing going for my plot location (aside from the personal fact that shep's mountain is holy on blight) is that it is next to an inbound pad......

[Summerbreeze]

I'd like something at least 60X60.
I have been playing for 53 days and have exactly 426 silver. That's 8s/day.
Almost ALL of that has come from selling resources on the Brist connie.
I can say with authority that the market for resources has almost completely dried up. In fact I had several stacks returned to my vault for failure to sell last week. My prices are the standard ones that have worked in the past.
Everyone is waiting for auctions so there is VERY little plot building going on right now.
ANY plot over 3 gold BASE price is overpriced in my view.
I know that there are players who will pay MUCH more than that at auction for the largest plots. That is fine. I'm talking about BASE price, what they will sell for after the auctions are over.
Here is a sample price list:
50X50 - 400s
60X60 - 600s
75X75 - 900s
90X90 - 1.2g
100X100 - 1.75g
125X125 - 2.5g

Well coming from the old days when none of us had coin, the prices for a 20x20 were more then the price for your 50x50. IMHO keep working for coin. We have all been there & all did it & I see no reason for prices to be crazy low like those you suggest now.

[Mearis]

Back in the day 50x50 plots went for 1.5g . I do not expect to see them lower then that price. If you can't afford the plot you will want do some construction work for people in the construction chat channel. You will accumulate funds quickly that way. I have a 75x75 plot in Forest Guard which I paid 10g for. I was very lucky I found it when I did and had the 10g. If you are going to look for huge plots best start up the construction schools, and do work for others in the construction chat channel..... how else are you going to build your own plot after all

[Mensar]

Join a guild

Get a plot for 1s..

[Mensar]

Y'know, you have nothing better to do than to jump on a missing letter in a word?

But I should thank you! I didn't even know my tumbs were gone. But no, I didn't jump on them. That would probably break them.

[Enter]

Join a guild

Get a plot for 1s..

Explain?
Are you saying I should beg coin from guildmates?

[velveeta]

no - guild plots are set at a flat rate of 1sp.....
but isn't that what guildies are for? loans, tools, stuff made - what's the point of a guild if you can't get help from your guildies?

[Death-knell]

Well as an old timer who rarely does the coin grind I think the prices are way too high. Who let bush be emperor?

I do have a guild plot so this price increase really doesn't phase me one bit. But I'd say your chasing away new players. "Welcome to Istaria, you don't get squat for coin from adventuring so we expect you to grind out coin for months before you can even expect a lair in BFE. Enjoy!" Whats that....you didn't want to craft? Did we say we cared?

[Summerbreeze]

Well as an old timer who rarely does the coin grind I think the prices are way too high. Who let bush be emperor?

I do have a guild plot so this price increase really doesn't phase me one bit. But I'd say your chasing away new players. "Welcome to Istaria, you don't get squat for coin from adventuring so we expect you to grind out coin for months before you can even expect a lair in BFE. Enjoy!" Whats that....you didn't want to craft? Did we say we cared?

I know of ALOT of ADV's who don't like crafting & make very good coin hunting! Coin is easy to come by in this game, either by adv or construction. Doing give aways just because new people want it now instead of working for it some is not the way IMHO.

[Kulamata]

I don't think characterizing those who would like to see lower prices as "wanting it now" is helpful.


When "should" a typical (whatever that is) player be able to buy a minimum, medium, or expensive plot?

Minimum at level 30, either adv or craft?
Medium, level 65 or so?

Perhaps lower for craft-oriented players?
Minimum at 40 adv, 25 craft?

At current pricing, at what level can most players realistically afford a non-guild plot?

Same for dragons or bipeds?

What is the average level of players who leave the game?

In any event, I think it would be helpful to use real numbers to indicate the effect on the players.

[Creme]

I don't think characterizing those who would like to see lower prices as "wanting it now" is helpful.


When "should" a typical (whatever that is) player be able to buy a minimum, medium, or expensive plot?

Minimum at level 30, either adv or craft?
Medium, level 65 or so?

Perhaps lower for craft-oriented players?
Minimum at 40 adv, 25 craft?

At current pricing, at what level can most players realistically afford a non-guild plot?

Same for dragons or bipeds?

What is the average level of players who leave the game?

In any event, I think it would be helpful to use real numbers to indicate the effect on the players.

I don't think it's a matter of looking at it from the perspective of "how long" but rather, how many.

I'm more going by plots here, as value on lairs seems to be more location dependent than size.

Define the plot sizes, then the quantities of each.

Those percentages should relate to productivity/time in game.

If 75x75 and above equate to 15% of the plots in game then pricing should be based on the median? mean? midpoint? (statistics is not my bag) of that percentage of the population.

I do think that there should be cheap housing, but I think there is. Perhaps it is not low enough for newer players, which might need to be looked at.

I guess the question is, how much effort is expected to be put forth to purchase one's first property?

I do know that when I first started, there were NO available properties, anywhere. Even as communities were added, prices remained out of reach of MANY players. This was because there was so little property to go around.

Buying property is part of game design and I'm sure it factors into whatever research was done to figure out the best way to get players to:

1. Play long enough to save up the purchase price
2. Switch gears at that point to developing their property

I do believe in working for what you want and not having everything given to you easily or immediately.

I cannot evaluate the benefits/harm of conceding to the "I want it now and I want it easy" and how it affects subscriptions versus maintaining the challenge of the game environment.

[Justa Mirage]

Creme, you are right on most points...

One you should consider is the "grind" for new players vs. the "novian farmers" that pillaged the plots.

A new player with little or no money (unless it's borrowed) will not be able to afford a "choice plot" but will have to settle for a "not so great plot" and then get the levels in the 5 building classes to erect their own buildings, end up paying others (again... no money for newbies), or have a guild with dedicated builders that will help the player build his/her plot.

A Novian farmer didn't have to level any crafting classes, they get to buy a plot, check their novian stockpile, and pop buildings with no experience in building classes. They are usually alts of players with a large cash flow. When it comes to auctions, those players will buy the more lucrative plots and instantly drop structures.

For new players with no guild assistance, cash, or levels in building, owning a plot will be a big empty square for a while.

[Sigi]

To own and develop a plot in this game is like a bonus. You can perfectly play without a plot so I don't think every new player should have a plot as soon as he starts playing or that the not owning a plot is such a game destroyer that people should leave over it.

[Smaug]

Everyone ready the flame throwers, I got my popcorn ready to pop.

Istaria is definately not newbie friendly, thankfully the players try to be. Everyone keeps saying "earn" your way to a plot/lair, money is easy to come by. It might be easy for the rating 175+ bipeds or lvl 100 Ancients but it is hardly easy for someone just starting out with no high alts to hunt for them.

What they can kill early on isnt going to earn them squat really. Take into account the cost of food to rid DIs is another money sink for what lil earned cash they come by.

Some don't like to take hand outs, want to earn thier way, so they pay what lil coin they earn to get someone to make them tools/armor as they can, even when offered free. How dare they not wanting to take charity then complain about pricing of real estate.

True they can instead go the crafting way and craft for months building up skills and making money that way, course paying jobs specially for low level crafters is few and far between lately. Not everyone wants to craft craft craft in beginning to get started.

IMO as I stated in beginning Istaria is in no way newbie friendly, changes that have been made seem to me to be more on the thought of, all these old timers got to much coin, we need to drain them somehow.

I guess if you haven't been playing for years and was around before the PB nerfs and other nerfs to gain lvls/wealth then you just don't deserve a decent piece of dirt worth having.

Smaug

[Death-knell]

Everyone ready the flame throwers, I got my popcorn ready to pop.

Istaria is definately not newbie friendly, thankfully the players try to be. Everyone keeps saying "earn" your way to a plot/lair, money is easy to come by. It might be easy for the rating 175+ bipeds or lvl 100 Ancients but it is hardly easy for someone just starting out with no high alts to hunt for them.

What they can kill early on isnt going to earn them squat really. Take into account the cost of food to rid DIs is another money sink for what lil earned cash they come by.

Some don't like to take hand outs, want to earn thier way, so they pay what lil coin they earn to get someone to make them tools/armor as they can, even when offered free. How dare they not wanting to take charity then complain about pricing of real estate.

True they can instead go the crafting way and craft for months building up skills and making money that way, course paying jobs specially for low level crafters is few and far between lately. Not everyone wants to craft craft craft in beginning to get started.

IMO as I stated in beginning Istaria is in no way newbie friendly, changes that have been made seem to me to be more on the thought of, all these old timers got to much coin, we need to drain them somehow.

I guess if you haven't been playing for years and was around before the PB nerfs and other nerfs to gain lvls/wealth then you just don't deserve a decent piece of dirt worth having.

Smaug

I have to agree.

And to summerbreeze, and what is this great thing to kill for money. I have killed almost everything in Istaria and never gotten much coin for it. Especially when we're talking about the under 50 crowd with no one to spoon feed you.

[Mearis]

My highest character Segorian_bounty my dragon is only in his mid 60s for ADV, while he is 100 DCRA and 98 LS. My main biped Mearis (rating 40) can do many T4/T5 construction crafts. I have been around since the beginning, and only last year did I accumulate enough money to buy my dream plot (75x75). I could not tell you exactly how many construction contracts I have taken in the past, but it is a heck of a lot. If you go in to construction chat and offer to make mass resources, or help on building a plot, you will get decent coin. If you can not afford a plot, save your money and one will eventually come available. Maybe the great people over at Virt will add another land mass or a few to increase nice housing some time later. Money can be made by crafting, building or by hunting, but not being one to do much of the later Summer would be able to better speak to that.

Point: I worked years to get the money to buy the plot I wanted. My first plot was 23x23, then it went up and 4 plots later I was up to 50x50, 3 plots after that I finally found a 75x75 for sale and I had been saving from all the construction work I did so I could afford it.
(7 plots and years of work to finally get a huge plot)

[Creme]

Creme, you are right on most points...

One you should consider is the "grind" for new players vs. the "novian farmers" that pillaged the plots.

A Novian farmer didn't have to level any crafting classes, they get to buy a plot, check their novian stockpile, and pop buildings with no experience in building classes. They are usually alts of players with a large cash flow. When it comes to auctions, those players will buy the more lucrative plots and instantly drop structures.

You have a point regarding the novian farmers, but, who's to say that no new(er) players took advantage of novian farming? I don't know that any did, but I also don't know that any didn't either.

A new player with little or no money (unless it's borrowed) will not be able to afford a "choice plot" but will have to settle for a "not so great plot" and then get the levels in the 5 building classes to erect their own buildings, end up paying others (again... no money for newbies), or have a guild with dedicated builders that will help the player build his/her plot.

I think the point that a number of older players have been trying to make is that we ALL started out that way. Either plots weren't available at ALL, or we couldn't afford the purchase price when they were available and we had to wait or settle for what we could afford. Most of us that were here pre-merge, if we had plots at all, they were small ones. I had one of the small ones in HV. I also had to level up my crafting classes to be able to build on them. Those of us that were here before merge AND then stuck with the game through the performance issues post-merge didn't have novians, other than those that came with the destruction of the old shards.

I don't believe novians existed prior to the merge. I think it was even later that players even GOT novians from deconstructing existing properties. I remember it was a happy day indeed when we were able to get a return on the work we put into our properties if we decided we wanted to "redecorate/upgrade structures".

For new players with no guild assistance, cash, or levels in building, owning a plot will be a big empty square for a while.

Most of us started exactly the same way. There didn't even used to be guild communities.

The only players that got the benefits of moving into existing, built up properties were those that purchased properties during the reclaim auctions. Even the very first auction on Chaos was moving into completely unbuilt plots.

For anyone who thinks players shouldn't have to grind for coin for buying a plot, I'm not sure what alternative there is, other than setting up a bunch of empty, small plots for free and any new player gets a random plot on a starter island when they make their first character.

I can see a whole host of problems coming out of that however.

Maybe there should also be T1 imperial novian sellers like there are imperial spell vendors so that these players can obtain T1 novians to build on their "new training plots".

I don't know. I just know that it was hard and took a heck of a lot of work to get property on my original shard and only a small minority of players were even able to get a property. It was even more difficult to build up the coin to bid during the first Chaos auctions. If I had started playing shortly before the first auctions on Chaos, I wouldn't have been able to afford anything other than a small plot, but I would expect that and think it were fair.

[Smaug]

I'm in no way saying all plots/lairs are overpriced. The best locations/biggest ones I have no problem with. I agree start with small and work your way up in time.

What I would like to have seen, is the smallest plots (40x40 is now the supposedly min) and lairs 96x96 should have stayed low, 200 to 300s (or less) at the most. And I'm not talking about the ones out in the boondocks, any of the min sized plots/lairs should have stayed low. That would gave the beginners and ones that don't like to grind it out for months and months something to start with and as they develop and gain wealth then move up to the higher priced better ones.

Now for a settlement that only has 40x40 plots or 96x96 lairs then maybe the closest to landing pad (not gate) should be higher but majority should be bargain beginner homes.

Just my opinion, like everyone else I have one.

Smaug

[RuneDragoon]

I should check mine out... wonder how much it will be...