*Peeks at her cargo disk *

[Gengel]

As the dryad strikes another node of marble, she notices that her tethered disk is looking a bit old. Pondering, she wonders if the Great Tinks would entertain a "freshening up" of the tattered disks. The dryad inspects her green cargo gear and thinks a nice fresh green dye on the cargo disk would look nice.

Laughing at herself for such a mundane thought, she wonders if such an idea has any merit?

~< Gengel >~

[velveeta]

being able to color things would certain make more business for alchemists!! i, too, would love to be able to dye my disk dark green as well.....

[Shian]

A turquoise one. To match my spots *flutters her wings*

[Weston]

Funny you should mention this. I've been pondering for the last couple of weeks this very issue. I too would love to color a disk, having seen the sporty dragon disks, and well as the humorous dwarven ale platform. Related to this issue of course, is the issue of sacks and bags, not to mention backpack pouches which we can make, but not dye. This is the very reason why colored backpack pouches are dropped as loot... to circumvent the issue of why we can't dye them while manufacturing them.

Back in the day, this issue was addressed by devs, as I recall, and the discussion focused on why they couldn't allow the dyeing (or 'teching') of containers. (If anyone remembers the exact gist of that argument, I'd like to be reminded.)

Peripherally related is the way the dye techs were implemented. They are technically a 'technique' (no play on words intended), but don't cost a technique 'slot'. That is, if an item can take 3 techniques while being crafting, it can actually take 4, counting dye as one. But, if you notice, you can't add the dye tech (ditech, anyone??) as the last one. You have to insert the dye tech prior to adding the one which decrements the tech counter to '0'.

My pondering led me to conclude that it might be possible to add dye techs to containers (and bags and sacks - which are not containers) by modifying the existing system only a little. Surely there's a dev with the creativity to take this issue on as a challenge. I honestly can't remember if they said it "can't be done" or just that it would be monumentally difficult, or the database won't support the strain, or what...

I'd love to dye my own pouches, thank you, and get that trash outta the loot tables. Nevermind the cool Blood or Jasper colored disk I'd like to tote around...

[Deth]

Yes when a tech is applied to a container it is no longer a container. So right now it is not possible.

[Knossos]

Now if in fact the dyeing of containers is somehow beyond the imaginative skills (or priorities) of the devs, a step of interest in my view would be the ability to dye jewelry - if not as seen on the toon, at least for purposes of sorting in inventory or vault - much in the manner as scale dyes (dye kits) for dragons - how about it devs - can we have this? Having this capability would make the management of my T6 construction suits incredibly better.

Knossos

[AmonGwareth]

Now if in fact the dyeing of containers is somehow beyond the imaginative skills (or priorities) of the devs,

Ouch... Thats a rather offensive statement.

As for jewelry, sure its something we will look into.

[Knossos]

Sorry Amon did not mean to offend - was drawing on an earlier comment in the thread and without nuff forethought, my apologies.

Knossos

[whosha]

As the dryad strikes another node of marble, she notices that her tethered disk is looking a bit old. Pondering, she wonders if the Great Tinks would entertain a "freshening up" of the tattered disks. The dryad inspects her green cargo gear and thinks a nice fresh green dye on the cargo disk would look nice.

Laughing at herself for such a mundane thought, she wonders if such an idea has any merit?

~< Gengel >~

Flame decals and pinstripes.

[AmonGwareth]

So... there is one way to make a cargo disk colored. At least, colored in your inventory. I would have to test if it could be colored in the 3D world. But it would require you to select from the product list a "Blue Standish Cargo Disk" from the start. i.e. you couldn't add a dye to it later or choose which color during crafting. Not sure how feasible or desirable that is.

[Weston]

So... there is one way to make a cargo disk colored. At least, colored in your inventory. I would have to test if it could be colored in the 3D world. But it would require you to select from the product list a "Blue Standish Cargo Disk" from the start. i.e. you couldn't add a dye to it later or choose which color during crafting. Not sure how feasible or desirable that is.

Could you explain to us why that is so, Amon?? From a technical perspective, that is... what is it about 'containers' that prevents them from being handled in the same way during creation as say, helmets?

Moreover, even though Sacks and Satchels are listed in the 'container' portion of the knowledge list, they are not. They affect how MUCH can be carried, but can't be opened or viewed in the same way as a backpack pouch or a backpack can. Houses and silos can be opened, and contain stacks, but we're not asking to dye those.

Until we understand the mechanics, we can't even make intelligent suggestions. I was hoping the following: Some items can take various techniques during item creation. But even though an item can be teched, it doesn't mean that it can take ANY tech. Each has a list of 'acceptable' techs attached to it somewhere. So if containers were 'tech-able', it doesn't mean there would HAVE to be any techs that they'd take. Perhaps the ONLY technique some kinds of items would take are those that 'color' the item through the use of dyes. In particular, the issue of backpack pouches bothers me. If they can drop colored versions as mob loot, then WE should be able to create those as well.

[whosha]

So... there is one way to make a cargo disk colored. At least, colored in your inventory.

Are you implying there is a limitation to the game engine that would only allow one way or a limitation with who is programming it.

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[AmonGwareth]

Are you implying there is a limitation to the game engine that would only allow one way or a limitation with who is programming it.

A self-imposed limitation, sure. We impose limitations in everything in order to create rule-sets. Not sure what Granny has to do with it.

Could you explain to us why that is so, Amon?? From a technical perspective, that is... what is it about 'containers' that prevents them from being handled in the same way during creation as say, helmets?

Yes, sure. So, you have items such as containers and helmets and stuff. They are objects. Containers like cargo disks and backpacks are containers, that is they can have other objects placed inside of them.

Satchels are more like a tool or a weapon. They don't really contain items (you can't move your Bronze Axe and place it into your satchel). They do, however, modify your inventory bulk capacity because it is simply an attribute (albeit one you can't see on your character sheet :P).

Techniques, however, are also objects like weapons. But they can only occupy a special container (a technique container) that is present on many types of objects like weapons and armor and the like.

These two types of containers don't mix and so therefore items that can hold other items can't also hold techniques and vice versa.

Dyes are techniques that modify the tint of the object. Therefore, applying a dye to an item uses the special "technique container".

But there is a way during the creation of the item TEMPLATE (that is, the template from which all Bronze Battle Axes, for example, are created) to specify the tint. That is what I meant by pre-tinting the cargo disk.

Is this clear as mud?

[Guaran]

I think I understand. So some new forms where the disk is created colored from the beginning is possible. That might be nice then, since disks are now visible to everyone. maybe just add some extra choices to the existing forms?

As far as coloring jewelry, this could be useful too. I have renamed all my jewelry and gear (mainly the crafting sets) so that when viewed in list, they sort together alphabetically: Mining Ring, Mining Bracelet, Mining Mask, Reaver Belt, etc.

[Shian]

But there is a way during the creation of the item TEMPLATE (that is, the template from which all Bronze Battle Axes, for example, are created) to specify the tint. That is what I meant by pre-tinting the cargo disk. I would have to test if it could be colored in the 3D world. But it would require you to select from the product list a "Blue Standish Cargo Disk" from the start. Not sure how feasible or desirable that is.

Having different disk colors be different disks would be welcomed if it is possible. Sounds like a solution to me at any rate.

If it ends up it can be colored in the world, that is. The disks are already 'tinted' into tiers so can be easilly distiguished in inventory. It's just... depressing that all the normal disks are grey or brown.

[Weston]

Satchels are more like a tool or a weapon. They don't really contain items (you can't move your Bronze Axe and place it into your satchel). They do, however, modify your inventory bulk capacity because it is simply an attribute (albeit one you can't see on your character sheet :P).

Techniques, however, are also objects like weapons. But they can only occupy a special container (a technique container) that is present on many types of objects like weapons and armor and the like.

These two types of containers don't mix and so therefore items that can hold other items can't also hold techniques and vice versa.

Dyes are techniques that modify the tint of the object. Therefore, applying a dye to an item uses the special "technique container".

But there is a way during the creation of the item TEMPLATE (that is, the template from which all Bronze Battle Axes, for example, are created) to specify the tint. That is what I meant by pre-tinting the cargo disk.

Is this clear as mud?

Hmmm.. getting clearer. I realize the original poster's focus was disks, and I understand where you've gone with that. You've already done it, in fact, by dropping loot colored backpack pouches. You could just as easily drop colored cargo disks. You've -already- modified the Template for pouches, but haven't extended that particular priviledge to user forms yet.

I also understand the [dev-design-created] problem of two container types, one assigned to actual containers and the other assigned to, or being used by, many other types of items. So even when you tech an axe with 'Parry I', as an example, that technique is being stored in some sort of storage pocket/container on the axe. And you're saying that an object can't have TWO such pockets, one for normal objects that we can see, and another for tech objects that we can't see. A diehard skeptic might as this point ask "Why Not?" Can the way objects are designed in template or whatever be changed to include TWO uses for containers, one visible and one not.

That issue aside, my remaining critical issue is: Satchels and Sacks. I want... and need... to be able to dye them to match my sartorial splendor in everything else. ;p They are objects that come with a FIXED technique in place that gives the item a Capacity Bonus, just the same as a tool which contains a Cog of Holding would. Actually, I suppose, the Cog of Holding has the technique embedded in IT, and the crystal is placed in a technique slot called 'SOCKET'. Stacking one technique inside another is kind of clever, yes?

[ By the way, for those that are wanting Jewelry colors as well, it's the same issue. Take a Bronze Health Necklace, as an example. It comes with a built-in Health Bonus (say hidden 'technique') PLUS you can tech it with an assortment of other relevant techniques. Seems to me, it's just a matter of 'enabling' the acceptance of dye techniques to flick the tinting ON. ]

Where was I? Ah yes... sacks and satchels must already have the hidden technique container in place, so the issue seems to be: Can an object (sword, earring, sack, etc.) have BOTH a hidden technique and visible player-placed ones??

Hope that was clear. Doubt it, but am hoping anyway... lol

[Frith-Rae]

no no no I am totally against this...

If you allow recolorable dragon discs, then that means "little Frith" won't be following every dragon around who chose to make the Lunus Model...

NOOOoooo I like that the disc basically looks like ME!! All Lunus models should always look LIKE MEEEEeeeee nooooO!!

(on another note - I would think that even if people had to build another new disc, it would be something they'd be interested in totally...which is why its EVIL!)

*grins toothily*

[AmonGwareth]

A diehard skeptic might as this point ask "Why Not?" Can the way objects are designed in template or whatever be changed to include TWO uses for containers, one visible and one not.

Heheh... Because the simulation code, the client and the database weren't designed to allow an object to have two containers.

Where was I? Ah yes... sacks and satchels must already have the hidden technique container in place, so the issue seems to be: Can an object (sword, earring, sack, etc.) have BOTH a hidden technique and visible player-placed ones??

Not really in the sense that you are asking. Dyes and inherent stats (like the round shields) can be pre-set on the item. And then you can tech them. Hard to explain, sorry.

[Drevar]

With some database work, couldn't the Dye tech attributes be converted to "simple" regular tint attributes that can be altered after creation? Just like the inscription and sale price, the "tint" field should be able to be made a simple alterable field rather than having to be stuck in the same limiting rut of everything being its own unique object in the database.

As good a place as any to start converting over to a referencing system.

Drev

[AmonGwareth]

With some database work, couldn't the Dye tech attributes be converted to "simple" regular tint attributes that can be altered after creation? Just like the inscription and sale price, the "tint" field should be able to be made a simple alterable field rather than having to be stuck in the same limiting rut of everything being its own unique object in the database.

As good a place as any to start converting over to a referencing system.

It wouldn't be a little database work. Nor would it be a trivial change to the simulation, tools, client, delta scripts, etc.