Quest marker or something.

[Castagere]

I'm getting sick of running around trying to find quest locations because the quest don't give you locations as to where they are. I was doing a dragon quset to kill 20 cedar treants and spent a half hour running around to find them. I don't want to play a game that makes me waste time like this.

[Deth]

They are working on updating this. If you could submit a ticket with suggested directions would help them greatly.

[Charys Stormchild]

There's often something in the NPC's comments that tell you roughly where to look for this kind of thing. Failing that you can ask in various channels in game - Dragon or New Player for instance. I've never used the map pack myself but I know that a lot of people download it and mobs are marked on there.

It is hard at first to find your way around and locate the mobs you need, but there are ways to speed things up. Stick with it, ask whenever you need to, that's why people sit around in New Player Channel, make use of their knowledge.

I hope you decide to carry on playing, this really is a great game with a fantastic community.

[Soraii]

I myself had an issue finding monsters that the quests directed me to, not only was it not knowing, but the 56k dialup I'm on make them a bit laggy in spawning, I eventually solved this by using the playermade map pack. I, in fact, still use it now. It should be in the player customizations forum.... Oh, make sure you edit the file if you choose to use it, otherwise it gets screwy

Soraii

[AmonGwareth]

I understand your frustration, but I would like to point out that not every quest should hold your hand like in WoW. Its okay to explore the world, learn it, even ask other players for directions.

The journey is as much a part of the game as the ending.

But, I will put this quest on the list to update with better directions as you are right. I looked at it and it doesn't even give any basic directions like "north" or "south".

[Mensar]

I have to agree with the OP not because there's anything wrong with the game the way it is. But, like it or not, that's how games are now. Every other MMORPG I've been playing gives much better details, locations, even a mapmarker to get you where you need to go that updates when you're done to show who to return to (who wants to keep track of 10 quests and where to go to finish them?). Heck, even SHOOTERS give those anymore!

It may not be something that makes sense, but if every other game is doing it, no matter how infantile it may seem... we're behind the powercurve. A frustrated new player doesn't have much of a lifespan in the game.

[Takora Drakan]

I find it good that you have actually to search and explore the world, and ASKING PLAYERS is here the magic quest marker. Noone will eat you here if you ask something, that is sure. And there is always the mappack if you are sick of asking around, but that often leads to friends and more fun.

When you get a pointer to location here and there, you don't have to think you just have to run from point A to B... boring. Because game xyz has that feature it doesn't mean it is good. Istaria doesn't need raids, PvP and that stuff. The world and rules here are different. This game builds on community and interaction with each other. Not on "I can be all and need noone other so stfu noob" players like in other games.

Its cool that Istaria has actually riddles and quests where you have to use your brain, some are brilliant I must say.

[Mensar]

Most players don't have that kind of patience in today's world. We're used to what I have to say is a VERY complicated game compared to most of them out there and there are new games poppping up all the time now (I'm in beta for a couple of them) that are looking into doing building.. and the requirements are slightly easier, and the long term benefit is better for their buildings, etc. and there's an ACTUAL (*sharp intake of breath!) tutorial in-game on how to build and use interfaces!

And they have small huts all the way up to epic castles.. and I'm telling you.. the castles are COOL!

We don't actually have ANY in-game tutorials (some popup windows.. but if someone is starting a game the last thing they want to do is read more than a few lines of text between being able to do things).. which, given how hand-held today's kids are.. is another big put off as far as starting (comparitively) a very complicated and technical game.

[Justa Mirage]

Amon is right, and most of the gripes and wants always match what WoW has to offer. Not every game is WoW nor wants to conform to WoW hoping to get 10 bazillion subscribers. WoW is McDonalds of MMORPG, there's one on every corner, the food is fattening, but you don't care. The quest says "Go here and beat up some monsters" so you lazily trod over there and beat them up.

Please don't tell me people NEVER use Thottbot... Oh... I can't find where the NPC told me to go or how to do the quest right, *looks it up on TB*

Istaria has a work in progress Wiki site that can answer some questions, and if they are still up, the GI.net forums usually have some good info.

Map Pack does cause lag on lower end systems but is also a good reference where to find mobs / npcs (or make your own map markers) Some guilds have their own map marker sets also.

Just because information isn't handed to you on a silver platter with big arrows pointing to your goal, doesn't mean you can't get that information by using the player chat channels and asking. There will always be someone there knowledgeable enough to answer.

[Mensar]

Amon is right, and most of the gripes and wants always match what WoW has to offer. Not every game is WoW nor wants to conform to WoW hoping to get 10 bazillion subscribers. WoW is McDonalds of MMORPG, there's one on every corner, the food is fattening, but you don't care. The quest says "Go here and beat up some monsters" so you lazily trod over there and beat them up.

Please don't tell me people NEVER use Thottbot... Oh... I can't find where the NPC told me to go or how to do the quest right, *looks it up on TB*

Istaria has a work in progress Wiki site that can answer some questions, and if they are still up, the GI.net forums usually have some good info.

Map Pack does cause lag on lower end systems but is also a good reference where to find mobs / npcs (or make your own map markers) Some guilds have their own map marker sets also.

Just because information isn't handed to you on a silver platter with big arrows pointing to your goal, doesn't mean you can't get that information by using the player chat channels and asking. There will always be someone there knowledgeable enough to answer.

And this (nothing personal) is the type of mentality that dooms games to fail. The community is set against change that is needed to keep it viable because they don't want it to change to be like the "other" games that are SUCCESSFUL for a reason.

Sorry, I disagree.. there's a LOT that needs to change in this game to keep up. If it doesn't, I'm sure the owners will eventually close shop. There are just too many MMORPGS out there that are coming out with all the same stuff istaria has to offer (except flying dragons) but that's bound to change at some point too.

[Valornyx]

I agree and disagree with the OP on this one.

It is certainly true that a good number (maybe even a majority?) of the quests could use better descriptions as to how to find the task in question.

Part of this should be through better description in the quest summary itself (as a lot of people gloss through the quest as given by the quest giver or take a break and return to the quest having forgotten the pertinent details).

Additionally, quests could be broken into smaller more interesting and varied pieces so that the quest does not say "kill 10 mighty bogsnorters" without reference to where they are, but first send you to locations closer to the bogsnorters first and direct you closer each time, either with sub-quests or just new directions in keeping with the quest itself "you find some bogsnorter tracks heading off towards the east, follow the road and find the bogsnorters that Fiddledeedee was talking about".

I don't want a follow the arrow and kill 10 bogsnorters, that is too easy and frankly extremely boring.

Efforts have been made of late to improve the quality of the quests, and I think that things are moving in the right direction. As it stands at the moment you can ask in dragon, marketplace, or NPA chats (on Chaos) and you are almost certain to find someone who will point you in the right direction. Still no good, you get a bit more detailed information. Completely frustrated or not interested in trying too hard, and someone will tell you the co-ordinates and take almost all the guesswork out of it.

So, yes, the information needs improving in a lot of cases. Yes the quests need to be better designed and much more interesting - although they are heading in the right direction and getting better. But no find this arrow!! Please don't make it too easy. A lot of people like the challenge of finding the task and information can be easily obtained through the chat channels if it cannot be figured out by oneself.

Another thing that might be introduced though would be if guards in towns had general information as to the location of NPCs in that town. "Fiddledeedee is the confectioner trainer here in Sslanis and can be found in the confectionary shop near the east gate."

[Velea]

I have to agree with the OP not because there's anything wrong with the game the way it is. But, like it or not, that's how games are now. Every other MMORPG I've been playing gives much better details, locations, even a mapmarker to get you where you need to go that updates when you're done to show who to return to (who wants to keep track of 10 quests and where to go to finish them?). Heck, even SHOOTERS give those anymore!

It may not be something that makes sense, but if every other game is doing it, no matter how infantile it may seem... we're behind the powercurve. A frustrated new player doesn't have much of a lifespan in the game.

If "every other game" jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, should Istaria jump off the Brooklyn Bridge?

I'm sorry, but this particular statement just doesn't make me think that there's a change needed. I don't WANT Istaria to be "every other game". One of the strengths of the game is the sense of community and the need for people to explore and learn. To me, there's no point in doing quests that tell you "Walk 190 steps west, 128 steps north and you'll find this mob to kill." I recognize that there are players out there who enjoy that sort of thing, and thankfully there are games out there that appeal to them. However, I'm going to fight hard against Istaria turning into one of them.

That being said, I do agree that the quests need to be looked at for better general directions, and that those directions should be in the quest journal, not just the quest text. But don't ever expect that Istaria is going to have "waypoint markers" for quests because that's just not Istaria, and I'm going to fight hard against it ever becoming so.

[Shian]

If this game ever became so much like "other games", players would simply go play the "other game". Why not? It's bigger and has more stuff.

What appeals and perks that are unique to Istaria alone should keep it that way. Otherwise it's just a carbon copy of the other game.

If I want something that leads me by a ribbon or magical blinking dot mindlessly to my target, I'll go play other game for a while. For Istaria I have a large notebook filled with creature locations and POIs that I've seen just running around in case I need it later. It's also filled with crafting notes, lore references markers, PC notes..... It's nice to be able to figure out stuff on your own every once in a while.

[Mensar]

If "every other game" jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, should Istaria jump off the Brooklyn Bridge?

I'm sorry, but this particular statement just doesn't make me think that there's a change needed. I don't WANT Istaria to be "every other game". One of the strengths of the game is the sense of community and the need for people to explore and learn. To me, there's no point in doing quests that tell you "Walk 190 steps west, 128 steps north and you'll find this mob to kill." I recognize that there are players out there who enjoy that sort of thing, and thankfully there are games out there that appeal to them. However, I'm going to fight hard against Istaria turning into one of them.

That being said, I do agree that the quests need to be looked at for better general directions, and that those directions should be in the quest journal, not just the quest text. But don't ever expect that Istaria is going to have "waypoint markers" for quests because that's just not Istaria, and I'm going to fight hard against it ever becoming so.

If it's a successful game and it jumps off the brooklyn bridge.. I think the game needs to get ready to take that plunge.

It definitely needs something and learning a few things from other more successful (or just successful at this point) games wouldn't be a bad thing.

As far as fighting against change. That's definitely a way to keep the game the way it is, and ultimately end up with zero population. Change keeps things fresh AND keeps the changeophobes busy with things to talk about. If there was no change in the game, it would be staunch, completely solid and.. eventually, gone.

Now.. on a personal note, I would have expected to see some of the folks on here (especially in the suggestion thread) arguing against change. But I don't think a dev has that option. What's best for the game? That's really up to the owners.. and I'm thinking it has something to do with a price tag to one degree or another. (at least it should if the game is going to survive)

Not keeping up with younger and more successful games will be the death knell for the game.. and, of course, the community. Some changes are required just to keep things fresh.. some are required to keep things balanced and some are just required for the sake of change.

But the one thing I don't think should ever be done.. is have change ignored or have it not happen.

And I'm not saying make a carbon copy. I'm saying if emulation is all we can do because we can't come up with stuff that will compete with some of the newer games.. then, by all means, EMULATE! The long term game survival is more important than a few whiners in the forums.. and I think I'm one of the few players in the game that has their own whiner/negativity following so I have a unique perspective on that one. Hey, some people have "yes" men.. I have "no" people (see right above this post)

My two cents, which lately, probably aren't worth the copper they're stamped on.

[Deth]

Some change is good some change is bad. I am sorry Horizons will never be a "success" but most investor standards IMO. They all want a WoW game and we nor anyone else will ever do that again. Me, I feel taking some things from other games are good, but we should not try to clone another game. As others have said why play a game just like another game but with less people?

If you want to take the quest marker idea, I say OK but have the option of turning it off, for those that want to explore. If you want better directions for quest, I agree, just do not say go to Cord X,X. In game anyone ask me where something is I give directions, and hate when people give cords right off the bat. If they ask again because they are having troubles then i will give Cords. But I feel people should at least try first who knows what they might find while they search. I would be even willing for going with the Quest Pool idea from war, but again with the turning it off if you wish.

[LOVWYRM]

Though my heart agrees with Tako, Amon and Justa,
I think Mensar is right with his pragmatic and down- to-earth appraisement.

We, the older players, dislike changes. Especially those, which make things to easy, to close to the WoW garbage.

But we need fresh blood. Sure, no WoW players, no *xyz* players, not too young- not too old not too *abc*.

Or would it be enough, if all old players, who left, return?
But they will not. Or only if -*dfg*- will be changed.

The question is, if we can affort not to adapt our game to the market requirements. And if we do- in large scale? In small scale?

It is a borderline decision. For one old player, who leaves due to unwelcome changes, you need at least two new players (cause the old player would have stayed until the end of his /her days^^), new players often are
"game hoppers" who leave after a short time, not willing to give our game a second chance (which old players do continously, if we look at the past^^)

How to pull the "right" clientel?
I have no answers, but I trust in the community and VI, working together to keep our game alife.

[LOVWYRM]

My two cents, which lately, probably aren't worth the copper they're stamped on.

Who said that?

People would not take the time to answer you posts,
nor argue with you, if it was like that

[Deth]

Very true. You respond, I feel, in a good way and if I disagree will tell you so. Unlike a couple others that I have seen. I try once then just move on and ignore the rest of their post as you have good ideas, even if I do not agree with all of them, but i am not a dev. As they said ideas are always needed even if they are not used.

[Steele]

Mensar, don't think that your input isn't valuable... personally, I know I disagree with alot of your suggestions; some of them seem a little over the top to me, but that doesn't mean they're not offered with the best of intentions.

I think the devs do a decent job of looking at the suggestions, extracting the nuggets of chocolate nutty goodness that are in line with their vision for the game, are technically feasible, and have a postive benefit against the number of man-hours it would require to implement... and you shouldn't feel discouraged or think your opinion is worth any less just because some of us in the community can be a tad overzealous in stripping out different components of your suggestions to build our own franken-suggestions with them.

That said...

Most players don't have that kind of patience in today's world.

Honestly, I'm not sure I would want Istaria to cater to that type of player.

Istaria has survived over four years of a nearly-consistent state of bankruptcy... multiple changes in ownership (one of which seemed content to let it forever die)... and sure, it's got a ton of scars to show for it, but I think alot of folks have accepted it's a niche product that isn't ever going to compete with the likes of WoW; it's just in a different ballpark.

Now, that doesn't mean folks are against change or don't want to see improvements made; I've made a lot of suggestions myself, and many others have contributed more than I have. I think that reliance on exploration and other players is a good thing - I played ATITD for a while, and the amount of required exploration and pioneering there makes Horizons feel like major handholding, hehe. These are different calibers of game, however, and they cater to a rather different, specific demographics... VI's ability to grow Istaria will likely remain tied to their ability to play to the game's strengths, and it might seem silly to withhold a rather convenient feature (like quest markers), but in the context of this game it kinda fits.

The quest bucket system was a pretty good and much-needed compromise improvement, and I look forward to seeing it expanded upon. There are TONS of landmarks in the world; as the devs revisit and expand that system, if they can ensure that good directions are included in NPC quest text (not only using city & region names, but also landmarks, there really shouldn't be a need to add features they feel contributes to overly hand-holding their players... and if players need to pay attention to their surroundings, they might be more immersed in the world and notice more of the little things that make Horizons cool (I still love the butterflies, rays of sunlight and the moving ant trail on the path south of Dalimond toward the Observatory!).

Meh, this was a much longer post than I intended... sorry about that. Back to work I go!

[Deth]

Spoeaking of the quest bucket system I would liek to see the bright blue bubble abve the head go away and maybe make use of the colored circles below the mobs feet we had for stances. Green for offering a quest, Red for a Quest in process and Blue for a completed/turn in here quest.