WT- was the US goverment thinking !

[LaughingOtter]

Agreed, Frith - I'd like to see any company getting part of that bailout money be required to forfeit all bonuses, executive compensation, tax incentives, and non-critical spending until that money is repaid.

Won't happen, but it would be nice.

[Veruliyam]

Pardon, but you have 'government' and 'thinking' in the same sentence.

[awdz]

Pardon, but you have 'government' and 'thinking' in the same sentence.

LOL, that's wonderful

[Teto Frum]

Well LO you got pretty close to your wish this past week.

[Nynelyves]

Amen...I totally agree with LO. If you drive the business into the dirt why should you get anything

[CallakDW]

I just think there are too many humans on the planet. That's what I think.

[Hoberton]

I just think there are too many humans on the planet. That's what I think.

Curious. With this type of thinking. Are you willing to be the first to leave for the betterment of the planet?

[CallakDW]

Curious. With this type of thinking. Are you willing to be the first to leave for the betterment of the planet?

Don't tempt me.

[velveeta]

totally with you call - i got myself fixed asap in part because of it!
down with peeps!! especially peeps calling an IT support center......

[Arius]

Don't really see the outrage, the people voted in a president and got what they voted for. It's true the stimulus bill contains much that could easily be seen as more policy than stimulus but that's to be expected from either side of the aisle in an opportunity of this nature to put forth thier agenda so strongly so quickly. It's true that Obama's policies seem to tend towards practices that could be called socialistic in nature but that isn't unexpected either. In fact the nation as whole could be seen to tend in that direction politically for decades and this is just another shift. Personally I think it's the wrong direction but evidently I'm not in the majority. Which is something I'm sure those who are in the majority are rather happy about. If you wish to be outraged I suggest pointing the finger where it belongs at ourselves as citizens of this country for failing to be able to persuade enough people through reason and debate in the open market of ideas. The power base of this country ultimately still resides with the people, hopefully we can keep it that way.

[lightning claw]

well i said that i would be the first to post something if he made a descent or good move

today he quite effectively called "a Full time out" in basketball lingo. his housing fix i am assuming is in 2 phases. today he did address housing markets and i agree with most of what he said how ever ... this is only a turnicat for the bleeding housing market so props to him on temperately stopping the bleeding.

form a real estate standpoint

this looks like he is attempting to put in a false bottom might last for a few years but ultomatly he needs to hit this market hard like he did today a few more times with a hole lot more Meaningful targets and a lot less pork regardless of the "rallying" in Congress .

its also up to the Us the us people not to repeat out mistakes and read our documents .

[Nynelyves]

Don't really see the outrage, the people voted in a president and got what they voted for. It's true the stimulus bill contains much that could easily be seen as more policy than stimulus but that's to be expected from either side of the aisle in an opportunity of this nature to put forth thier agenda so strongly so quickly. It's true that Obama's policies seem to tend towards practices that could be called socialistic in nature but that isn't unexpected either. In fact the nation as whole could be seen to tend in that direction politically for decades and this is just another shift. Personally I think it's the wrong direction but evidently I'm not in the majority. Which is something I'm sure those who are in the majority are rather happy about. If you wish to be outraged I suggest pointing the finger where it belongs at ourselves as citizens of this country for failing to be able to persuade enough people through reason and debate in the open market of ideas. The power base of this country ultimately still resides with the people, hopefully we can keep it that way.

Honestly I find the no strings attached 1st stimulus to be the more troubling of the 2. Heck look at the companies coming back and asking for more money already.

[lightning claw]

Rely oboma your going to spend trillion $ on a manufactured crices by your administration . How stupid do you think the American people are? Quit persueing your Privet agenda and FIX the Mother ------ Economy as stated in another post some where i said i would be the first to chear when he dose something some what logical and smart . its been well over a year and all he has managed to do is relined out debt in to a true crises .

Call me old fashioned but i actually want to work for anything i get i don't want it forced down my through and told you like this sadly if i don't freak en take his abomination i will get the IRS after me... what on gods green earth dose the internal review service have to do with health care ?

the following paragraph is somthing we all should know

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

WE THE PEOPLE = MEANING THEY WORK FOR US !
BLESSINGS OF LIBERTY = LIBERTY IS OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT NO ONE CAN WELL US WHAT TO DO AND WHERE TO DO IT !

TO OUR SELF'S AND OUR PROSPERITY I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I CANT CALL THIS PROSPEROUS DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT ONLY REDUCES THE NASONAL DEBT BY 500 BILLION IN A 20 YEAR SPAN ! THIS IS NOT PROSPERITY THIS IS NOT LIBERTY what the ____ is the congress thinking !!!

[Vaz]

Ugh, I thought I was a bit curmudgeonly but it's remarkably mean-spirited to get so angry about no longer denying something as basic as health care to millions of people. Pervasive misspelling makes your rage look even more pathetic.

[Steelclaw]

Eh. If you're referring to the health care bill passed by congress, I've got mixed feelings about it too -- but for different reasons.

I'd rather have seen a the establishment of a universal health care system with a single payer, directly competing with the services offered by health insurance companies (thus forcing them to offer better services or lower costs).

The bill that was passed imposes limits upon health insurance companies (in their customers' favor) and creates a system of subsidized insurance for those who qualify. Funding for the subsidy comes from increased taxes, both upon individuals, employers, and health insurance companies. Yes, you will have to get insurance, or pay a fine, and that's what everyone is going to get hung up on.

I'll agree that it does seem unfair at first, but the money (either from taxes on the insurance company you pay, or the fine) goes toward making health care more affordable. This is very similar to the way a single payer system would work, but without the overhead of insurance middle-men. I'd much rather see that overhead cut out, and the out-of-pocket expenses for health care brought into line with reality -- hence my mixed feelings.

But what about spending your hard-earned money on all those undeserving people? The only fair trade I can see coming out of that is completely exempting yourself from any government assistance -- no emergency medical treatment, no hospital visits, no drugs -- unless you can pay the full, un-subsidized cost up front, like a financial transaction... but that's inhumane and puts everyone at risk, so that's not an option. (Your sickness, if contagious, will spread to other people, regardless of if they have health care or not.)

However, the bill that was just passed does benefit health insurance customers by removing lifetime limits and (eventually) denial due to pre-existing conditions. That, at least, is a good thing. Also, hence the mixed feelings.

At least its passage (and hopefully adoption) will serve to break the static friction of health care reform, and hopefully make the process of future improvements to our health care system easier.

As an aside, yes, this does mean that you're paying for someone else's (and sometimes your own) benefit -- but that already happens. Your tax dollars go to government subsidies that reduce the cost of certain foods. Taxes also help pay for the roads you drive on; the infrastructure providing the power and water you use; the safety of all kinds of things (like making sure that the car you ride in doesn't fall apart when someone backs into your bumper); the police, fire and EMTs that respond to 911 calls and accidents... I can go on and on. The point being, I don't hear any complaint about being taxed for those services, nor any argument that they should not exist -- and I don't see any reason why health care is different.

[awdz]

*applauds steelclaw's well-reasoned post*

[AmonGwareth]

Just pray you never have to go without health insurance and have a major hospital stay. If you did, you would change your mind about universal healthcare as soon as you saw the size of the bill.

[lightning claw]

Just pray you never have to go without health insurance and have a major hospital stay. If you did, you would change your mind about universal healthcare as soon as you saw the size of the bill.

i have Like i said call me old fashion but i would rather work for what i got not have it forced fed to me


my bigest objections in this monstrosity
A . it was a manufactured crises (yes it needs to be done but not while the government credit rating is in ext-ream Danger and the national debt is going to be inflated by another 2.5 trillion, and unemployment continues to rise. We are the land of the free. Not the land of the freebies. ) I got a some what rich aquatint she chose not to buy health care yet she can afford it 4 x over. and thinks its great she is getting health care for nothing. While there are real people that truly cant afford it but do need it.

B.what dose the IRS know about health care ? so why do they need to be involved at all in this bill other than to seek and destroy throws that would not want to touch this bill with a 20 foot pole?

C. your forced to get it if you don't the Irs will come after you
Correct me if i am wrong but isen't that like a dictatorship?

the preamble states


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Liberty ... Hmmmm lets get Webster out

Liberty

1. autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
2. freedom of choice; "liberty of opinion"; "liberty of worship"; "liberty--perfect liberty--to think or feel or do just as one pleases"; "at liberty to choose whatever occupation one wishes"
3. personal freedom from servitude or confinement or oppression
4. shore leave: leave granted to a sailor or naval officer
# familiarity: an act of undue intimacy



the way i read it is they have no right to force people to have health care its a choice each individual needs to make for them self's

D.Dint the abomination of pain and debt say when he was campaigning for this job that he will make his red pen famous by not alow back ally deals and pork barrel spending .

E. this bill is 2700 + Pages and at midnight of last night they sneaked something in this bill about student loans and are keeping it air tight as to what that is !

First
has any one actually read this bill cover to cover i know congress has not they don't actually know whats in it ! i dare any congress representative to take a competency test regarding this bill my money is the majority of them if not all of them will fall it miserably .

Second
What the ---- is student loans got to do with health care ? septet bill perhaps its idiotic to attach something that is (assuming its logical )a priority but not a must do to something that dose not even protean to it

F. i find it amazing that there was a protest at the capitol yesterday 100 people where for this bill 4 to 5 (Estimated) thousand where ageist and yet the people we hired to speak for us spoke agents us it would be a wast of red tape to impeach half of congrass as we only got a few months left with plosie and company but there should be a searious investigation in to the closed door deals that where made to even get the votes


G . sighting the constitution again this health care bill goes agents the constitution in 3 to 4 ways depending on how u read and interpret it .


hears a fact not off the topic at hand but still relating indirectly
President oboma after opposing any stimulus enacted the American recovery and reinvestment act (aka stimulious #3) (Needed to be done that was some what intelligent ) but whats not intelligent in the least bit out of the money that was released 9 .5billion (rounded down ) i will post the exact number if need be was spent on meaningless idiotic projects that where what he called shovel ready and they only created 6 temporary jobs lasting no more than 6 to 8 months. i dont know about you but i can create a hell of a lot more ways to make permit jobs with that kinda dough.

the way i see it is the government in all its insanity is not only disregarding the founding principals of this country, (is why it gets me upset ) but its compounding with an even greater insanity of being irresponsible with our money that we pay them to run the country .

[AmonGwareth]

I understand, LightningClaw. But believe me, when you come out of the hospital (thanking God that you are alive) but then are delivered a bill that exceeds $40,000 you won't be so happy that you get to pay on it for the next N years of your life.

Anyway, to each his or her own. I favor it, but I have a good perspective on why it is needed. Others don't, for various reasons. I am bowing out of this, just wanted to add my point of view to the mix.

[lightning claw]

I Understand that your bowing out of this now, but let me tell you something about 4 years back i was poised by black mold. I racked up a rather large health care bill from hospitals doctors and what have you . that started to think i was a hypochondriac due to when your removed from mold exposure symptoms start to clear 2 hours after your removed from the environment. once we found the mold there tune changed . Regardless i still am paying on that and i don't mind. its equivalent exchange.