That puppy!

[Malaquion]

So, the puppy we got a month or so ago is a four-month-old female Lab puppy. Intractable, mischievous, and annoying!

She *knows* when she's done something bad, and doesn't care. Instead, she tries to run away so she won't get stuffed in her crate. Despite all the methods we've used repeatedly to assert dominance, she's still rebellious and annoying. She knows we're the top dogs, she just doesn't care.

If she's not constantly paid attention to, she whines and yelps and howls and barks incessantly. She'll start whining even if someone gets up from sitting near her to move to a spot a few feet across the room...except when she's sleeping, which thankfully she does a lot of.

She's never stopped biting, and when the mood strikes, she does everything within her power to chew on the nearest human appendage. We have not been able to train her out of this, and believe me, we've tried. Even that bitter spray stuff does nothing to discourage her.


But the last straw came today. Yesterday, my grandmother worked her tail off scrubbing all the puppy piddle stains out of the carpet, and did a great job of it. The puppy had stained the carpet in at least six places. However, she had stopped piddling on it, so we thought she was toilet-trained.
Then, today, we find out someone let the puppy wander around without a leash, and she went and peed on the freshly-cleaned carpet. In two places. And now the living room reeks AGAIN.


The puppy must go back, but my family *still* wants this disgusting little thing around.

/rantoff

[Kumu Honua]

You might want to consider professional training. They really do know how to break bad habits and they do a good job.

[Hraefn]

Training classes really do a lot of good. At that age, puppy classes do wonders for the dogs. They also teach you a lot of things that you may not have thought of as well as wear your dog out so she'll sleep even more. xD

It's also important to spend a lot of time with the dog at that age and reward her when she does something good. If you can find a book called Family Friendly Dog Training, a six week program for you and your dog by Patrcia B. McConnell and Aimee M. Moore, I suggest you pick it up. It's really a really great method of teaching your dog right from wrong.

[Malaquion]

Yeah, we have her going to puppy classes, but it's not doing much good. In fact, she apparently spends a lot of time there attacking other dogs. :/

[Sigi]

You really love that dog, don't you

[ScaleIron]

My cat is like that. He plays rough. I've got a number of scars on both arms from him.

I tried squirt bottles. I even tried the sprayer from the sink. Water does not phase this cat. So I resorted to teaching him like I taught my dogs; if he does something wrong (especially biting) he gets slapped. Not hard, but enough to hopefully get the point across.

These days, he doesn't do it -too- much. My roommate, however, may be unintentionally encouraging him to keep doing it, because with her, he sees it as "play time". So he'll "play" with her.

But at least it's not with me.

(I still need to find a way to keep him off the counters and table...)

[Shian]

Oh cool! Puppies! I did this every year for 8 years!

She *knows* when she's done something bad, and doesn't care. Instead, she tries to run away so she won't get stuffed in her crate. Despite all the methods we've used repeatedly to assert dominance, she's still rebellious and annoying. She knows we're the top dogs, she just doesn't care.

How can she run away? At 4 months, if they are not housebroken, they should either be in a crate or on a leash. No exceptions.

Buy a 30 ft cotton string type rope. Tie one end to puppy hold other end while watching TV or other daily activities. Use baby gates to keep puppy to one room only.

Puppy chews on newspaper across the room, tug on lead, say 'no' and give puppy one of 'thier' toys. I reccomend no more than four. Some hard, some soft. We've only given our puppies two- a nylabone and a kong. If a dog has too many, they will not be able to tell what is thiers and what is yours. Never give them anything that resembles something of yours.

Those cloth toys they sell in petstores might be confused with one of your stuffed animals! I've never understood why people give thier dog a shoe to chew on then get angry at the dog for chewing on one of thier new shoes. The puppy cannot tell what is 'new' or 'old'. They also don't know what the price difference is between the old sneaker you gave them and some $200 shoes you bought for work.

If she's not constantly paid attention to, she whines and yelps and howls and barks incessantly. She'll start whining even if someone gets up from sitting near her to move to a spot a few feet across the room...except when she's sleeping, which thankfully she does a lot of.

Sometimes it's just best to let babies cry. They'll learn that this behavior gets them nothing.

Alternativly, maybe she does need more attention! Spend 15 minutes a day with her on a leash. Teach her her name. How to come. Sit. Anything! Puppies like learning and pleasing you at this stage so find things you can congratulate her for.

She's never stopped biting, and when the mood strikes, she does everything within her power to chew on the nearest human appendage. We have not been able to train her out of this, and believe me, we've tried. Even that bitter spray stuff does nothing to discourage her.

Forget spray. Use youself! If she puts her mouth on you for any reason, grab the bridge of her nose and cover her nose with your palm, look her in the eye and say firmly (but not yelling) No.

This taps into how wolves assert dominance-they will put thier mouth over the others' nose. Your size and eye contact will be indimidating.

Alternatively, You can always yell 'Ow" at the top of your lungs when she puts your mouth on you even if she does not hurt you. This should startle her and cause her to let go.

This habit might be 'cute' when they are small, but a full grown lab with this problem is quite the issue! This problem needs to be fixed fast or you'll get one of 'those' people that insist this dog is a danger to someone and must be put down.

so we thought she was toilet-trained.
Then, today, we find out someone let the puppy wander around without a leash, and she went and peed on the freshly-cleaned carpet. In two places. And now the living room reeks AGAIN.

Too bad someone left it in the house without a leash/lead. That is not the puppy's fault. 6 months is the usual age puppies are fuly housebroken. Some learn it in less time, but others don't. Again, they need to be either in the crate or on the leash at all times.

(I still need to find a way to keep him off the counters and table...)

Find some fly paper and pepper the counter with it for a few times. They will soon find these places undesirable.

If a puppy starts jumping on you and 'no' isn't working, hold his feet! He'll soon get uncomfortable and try to get back down to the floor. When this happens, keep holding his feet as he's trying to get away from you. Count to 15 or so, then put his paws back down on the ground and pet him. See? Isn't the floor much nicer? ^_^

These days, he doesn't do it -too- much. My roommate, however, may be unintentionally encouraging him to keep doing it, because with her, he sees it as "play time". So he'll "play" with her.

Use the spray bottle on the roommate?

[Soraii]

Use the spray bottle on the roommate?

LMAO!

Soraii

[Tcei]

I just got an 8 week old puppy as a Halloween gift from a friend, thanks for the advice Shian!

[C`gan]

Another good way of showing that you're alpha sounds a bit cruel, but it's how the pack works.

If the puppy is doing something wrong, grab it firmly by the underside of the throat (yes, a choke hold), and flip the puppy onto it's back (a submissive posture in the pack) while applying only strong enough force that you're holding it there and it can't wiggle free, but not enough that it has any difficulty breathing. All the while, you keep eye contact and in your LOWEST growling voice you tell it no. Then with your other hand, you move the puppy's head so their eyeline is down with respect to yours and the eye contact is broken (again, another signification that you're in command because continued looking into alpha's eyes is a challenge for dominance). It's called throating. I've done this on a few dogs in my life and they immediately recognized me as higher on the pack level than they thought.

After only a few times of the same result for the same behavior, they get the idea that it's not a game and they're not all that fond of getting throated, particularly when they can't move out of a submissive posture (lying flat on their back, eye gaze down).

[aine]

*Wonders if C`gan's method could be applied to her 78 year old Mom to convince her to finally stop emailing me each and every "forwarded" message she receives.* (I am kidding, of course...about using the method, that is.)

Ahem. Back to the topic.

Mal, it is hard to be patient under such circumstances, but if you try to keep in mind that the puppy is: 1) a baby, 2) operating on instinct (as opposed to logic or reason), and 3) probably loves you more than you can even imagine and will be delighted to please you...once he finally learns how, maybe it will be easier for you to get through these "terrible twos" of puppyhood. Not easy, just not as hard.

Labs are such amazing, loyal, loving animals. I am sure that every ounce of patience, care and training you put into this puppy will come back to you threefold or more. Hang tough, hon. Scotchguard the carpet, stick to Shian & C`gan's methods and just keep picturing the very good dog you will spend a loving 15 years or so with in the future.

(I so miss my big guy, Sumo, named for the view of him from behind, part husky part collie. The best dog there ever was or will ever be. *Tear runs* He sure was a stinker as a baby, though. *Chuckles*)

[Dremora]

I agree with all of the above for the puppy, and what C`gan says is true: we had to to the rollover dominance trick with a bitey Airedale terrier puppy. Man, was he ever a piece of work.

One thing that I noticed though:

... Instead, she tries to run away so she won't get stuffed in her crate.

I'm assuming you're using the crate as punishment? This is a mistake; the crate is supposed to be a quiet and comforting retreat for the dog, otherwise she'll never want to go in. Try rewarding her for when she does, put her favorite toys in there, whatever. Also, I'm not assuming you leave her in there all day, but remember: a puppy locked in a crate for that long is just asking for trouble.

My cat is like that. He plays rough. I've got a number of scars on both arms from him.

I tried squirt bottles. I even tried the sprayer from the sink. Water does not phase this cat. So I resorted to teaching him like I taught my dogs; if he does something wrong (especially biting) he gets slapped. Not hard, but enough to hopefully get the point across.

These days, he doesn't do it -too- much. My roommate, however, may be unintentionally encouraging him to keep doing it, because with her, he sees it as "play time". So he'll "play" with her.

But at least it's not with me.

(I still need to find a way to keep him off the counters and table...)

Punishing cats like you would a dog doesn't work (slapping a dog isn't too great of an idea, either). The thing is, there's probably an underlying reason for the aggression and punishing an animal, especially a cat, for that doesn't actually solve it. Your cat is probably wondering exactly why you're slapping him in the first place!

How old is your cat? Sometimes when kittens are taken away from the litter too early, aggression can develop. The reason for this is because both Mom Cat and his siblings have a role correcting rough play, and if the kitten is taken away early he'd never learn that this is bad behavior.

Another possibility is that your cat isn't getting enough excersize and/or attention and is releasing his pent-up energy. I would suggest introducing another cat if possible, so that he has someone to play with when you can't be around. If getting another cat is out of the question then setting up time for you to play with him would be a good idea. One trick to try if he's too rough at first is to redirect his attention to a toy, maybe an old stuffed animal so that he ends up scratching and biting that, not you.

Yet another possibility could be that he has an underlying illness and/or is in pain so a vet trip may be in order. If not, you could try Feliway, an imitation cat pheromone that can sooth and calm down anxious or aggressive cats.

Either that, or what you say is right and your roommate is encouraging the cat's aggressive behavior by playing too rough. I'd suggest talking to her about that if you haven't already.

As for keeping him off the counter, here are some deterrents you could try. And remember to not pet him while he's on the counter or any other unnacceptable surface (make sure to tell this to your roommate too) as that would be encouraging the behavior.

[Shian]

I just got an 8 week old puppy as a Halloween gift from a friend, thanks for the advice Shian!

Oh, even better! Enjoy your new 'baby'!

Like a baby, you'll have to get up every two or three hours every night to put it outside.

... Instead, she tries to run away so she won't get stuffed in her crate.

Yeah, I guess I should have outlined this a little better. The crate is used for sleeping. We keep one upstairs (when they are little so they learn to sleep near the foot of the bed) and one in the living room so they can go in when they want to get away. This also helps housebreak them. A dog will try to not go in the same area it sleeps it but it also means if the puppy needs to go, you need to take him out right away!

There will be a phase where baby puppy learns that they can just tell you they want to go potty at 2 am to get out of the crate to play or just stand there. If you listen well you'll pick up on when puppy lies- thier crying will be a different pitch than "Oh please let me out I need to pee!"

[Malaquion]

How can she run away? At 4 months, if they are not housebroken, they should either be in a crate or on a leash. No exceptions.

Buy a 30 ft cotton string type rope. Tie one end to puppy hold other end while watching TV or other daily activities. Use baby gates to keep puppy to one room only.

Puppy chews on newspaper across the room, tug on lead, say 'no' and give puppy one of 'thier' toys. I reccomend no more than four. Some hard, some soft. We've only given our puppies two- a nylabone and a kong. If a dog has too many, they will not be able to tell what is thiers and what is yours. Never give them anything that resembles something of yours.

Sorry, should've said she USED to run away. We keep her tied down all the time now. >_<;

Yes, we have several dog toys for her. A kong, a couple squeaky ones, and a couple beef sticks.

Forget spray. Use youself! If she puts her mouth on you for any reason, grab the bridge of her nose and cover her nose with your palm, look her in the eye and say firmly (but not yelling) No.

This taps into how wolves assert dominance-they will put thier mouth over the others' nose. Your size and eye contact will be indimidating.

Alternatively, You can always yell 'Ow" at the top of your lungs when she puts your mouth on you even if she does not hurt you. This should startle her and cause her to let go.

All of this, we've tried and tried again. She doesn't seem to care about any sort of warning against biting.
The spray is what we tried after things like this failed to work.

If the puppy is doing something wrong, grab it firmly by the underside of the throat (yes, a choke hold), and flip the puppy onto it's back (a submissive posture in the pack) while applying only strong enough force that you're holding it there and it can't wiggle free, but not enough that it has any difficulty breathing. All the while, you keep eye contact and in your LOWEST growling voice you tell it no. Then with your other hand, you move the puppy's head so their eyeline is down with respect to yours and the eye contact is broken (again, another signification that you're in command because continued looking into alpha's eyes is a challenge for dominance). It's called throating. I've done this on a few dogs in my life and they immediately recognized me as higher on the pack level than they thought.

After only a few times of the same result for the same behavior, they get the idea that it's not a game and they're not all that fond of getting throated, particularly when they can't move out of a submissive posture (lying flat on their back, eye gaze down).

We've been doing this for quite a while, but it doesn't seem to work on her. (Things like this are what I was referring to when I mentioned "methods to assert dominance" in my first post.)

I'm assuming you're using the crate as punishment? This is a mistake; the crate is supposed to be a quiet and comforting retreat for the dog, otherwise she'll never want to go in. Try rewarding her for when she does, put her favorite toys in there, whatever. Also, I'm not assuming you leave her in there all day, but remember: a puppy locked in a crate for that long is just asking for trouble.

Yes, we are. We never leave her in there for longer than an hour, though, unless she's supposed to be sleeping (in which case that isn't a punishment, so...yeah).

[Jayne]

LoL, gee this sounds familiar. Neighbor and her boyfriend recently broke up. He decided he was keeping the dog. So she says the kids miss the dog and decides to get them a puppy.......

No dont get me wrong a dog is great and I love them BUT

The lady is a nurse 12 hr shifts, so training a dog will be darn near impossible. The dog is locked up in a crate for 12 hours unless she can get home at lunch time during her 30 minute lunch to get dog out of crate, pull crate outside, spray out all the dog crap. Wash off dogs feet, etc.

To top it off so, some breeds are easier then others. She having been thru 4 boxers now, the first 3 were totally out of control (because she wasnt around to train them). So whats she decide to buy.....another boxer!

I guess you can see where this is going........

[katt31m]

This probably won't apply to the OP but a little trick I learned some time ago for puppies. They typically don't like to be alone at night so I would pick up one of the old ticking clocks. Place this in a pillowcase and then put it in their bed at night. This simulates the mothers heartbeat and in many cases (not all) will help them to sleep comfortably and quietly at night. Also when using the rolling on their back to show dominance tactic above, don't be suprised if they pee on themselves as this is their way of showing submissivness.


Muslyx

[Shian]

LoL, gee this sounds familiar. Neighbor and her boyfriend recently broke up. He decided he was keeping the dog. So she says the kids miss the dog and decides to get them a puppy.......

No dont get me wrong a dog is great and I love them BUT

The lady is a nurse 12 hr shifts, so training a dog will be darn near impossible. The dog is locked up in a crate for 12 hours unless she can get home at lunch time during her 30 minute lunch to get dog out of crate, pull crate outside, spray out all the dog crap. Wash off dogs feet, etc.

To top it off so, some breeds are easier then others. She having been thru 4 boxers now, the first 3 were totally out of control (because she wasnt around to train them). So whats she decide to buy.....another boxer!

I guess you can see where this is going........

Poor things. I'd be a heatbeat away from calling ASPCA. No one should have to stand in thier own filth... dogs don't like it any more than we would.

This is the exact reason I won't get a dog. Work shifts make it unfair to the dog to be locked up for that long and I can't ask neighbors to help. Isn't there some kid that lives nearby that will take $3 a day to go let the dog out after school?

[ScaleIron]

I have actually considered using the spray bottle on my roommate... She might react to it more than the cat does. >.> That in and of itself would be funny.

He is still in his "kitten phase" I think, and about two years old. We got him from the shelter about a year ago, so I don't know what he went through before getting him (besides the fact that he had a cold. He still sneezes quite a bit, especially if he hits his head or face on something. And he's kind of spastic, so this happens fairly regularly). My roomie has plans to bring her own cat back from Cali, so that will give him someone else to torment, especially when we aren't around.

Thank you for the link, and the flypaper tip. I will have to try that.

[velveeta]

i do not mean to scare you, scale and i hope it is just the sniffles for your cat -
but - - my cat tada sneezed more than anything, feline or human, i have ever seen and he always seemed to have a runny nose. my vet (spit on him, i will never use him for anything other than shots and fixing/declawing ever again) just said 'cats are sneezers'......well i had 4 cats before him and they never sneezed like that.......

a year later he had to be put down (after the vet said it was just asthma) due to a congential heart defect - one symptom of which is excessive sneezing, according to the emergency vet.

just a thought......... so maybe next vet visit, talk to your vet about test or ways to discover if your cat has an overly thick heart wall and see if they have any thoughts..........this is a birth defect and very hard to treat, but if you know, you can at least prepare for the end and make your cat as healthy and happy as you can for as long as you can......

i still miss my tada-o - he was so big strong WOW!!

[aine]

i still miss my tada-o - he was so big strong WOW!!

*Hugs Vel*

Hopefully that is not the case with your kitten...my Sophie was 2 weeks old and had cold symptoms when we got her. (The mother cat had been hit by a car and a student brought tiny Sophie to school to find help for her. He found...me! lol)

Her vet had a hard time getting her cured, but she did finally get over the cold. Hard to dose someone who weighs only a few ounces, it seems. All of my cats sneeze if they bump their faces...and my hyper Himilayan ran smack into so many things, the poor silly girl. Himis are prone to sinus infections, though, (thanks to human meddling in the feline gene pool, for the sake of looks ), so maybe hers isn't the best example...