Player Base

[Salama]

I have to join to Velveeta and Lovwrym, no f2p please. I hate all that "pay stuff for real money or else you will be limited"-thing. I don't really see any other way for it to work than that if the game would become free.

And yes, also increases the risk of trolls, and..other non-capable players. D: Can't really agree that with teenagers though, since I'm still being one of them.. sort of. Sure, some can be rude, but definitely not all of them.

I can already see Istaria rising from the ashes with the way it is.. Maybe a few tweaks here and there.. But when Vista someday becomes compatible, who knows how much things will change.. to better of course.
The thing that really makes this game differ from others are playable dragons. Even if other flying games are being developed, so far none of them have had dragon as a playable race. I think that makes a huge difference.

We may not be as big as WoW, but do we really have to?

[Takora Drakan]

I don't want honestly that the game becomes big as WoW, forum trolls and rude players everywhere! ARGHHH The community there is simply horrible. In most big games the Devs don't give a fart about players, here the devs communicate with the players and acutally listen to them!

[Hrough]

I don't want honestly that the game becomes big as WoW, forum trolls and rude players everywhere! ARGHHH The community there is simply horrible. In most big games the Devs don't give a fart about players, here the devs communicate with the players and acutally listen to them!

I don't want it to become that big, either.

Fortunately, with the nature of Istaria, I don't think we have to worry about us growing to more than a 'comfortable' size =)

[Vahrokh]

I suspect they plan on developing a larger player base slowly, over time, by implementing improvements as they can. Istaria was a freeshard for a while under EI and no one likes to talk about that now... Personally, I do not think it a good solution for Istaria.

It's not possible to get a large playerbase slowly by implementing improvements.


Basically, for how current market works, you want to have a finished and new product.

Then you "spam" advertisements, put out half information to make people curious. You pay review magazines to have your game looked at...

basically a marketing campaign.


Perspective players will spread "the new game news" mouth to mouth, sometimes the producers induce "hype" to further a pressure at trying the new thing out.


Istaria:

- does not have a real marketing campaign. Even the skirts etc. are mostly for current players not to get new ones.

- is not "new". Talk about Aion and you see people curious for the new thing on the block. Istaria already met the "players severe exam", Istaria has already lived its "15 minutes of fame".

- does not use DirectX9 nor pixel shaders (afaik) so it looks "retro'" even if the graphics are very nice (except water: HORRIBLE).


Basically the usual way to go for a MMORPG is:

- catch as many customers at day zero as possible.

- hope to retain 60-70% of them at the end of the month subscription inclused in the box.

- manage a long, slow decline in subscriptions (ie. more quit than start playing, the classic "starting areas are empty" effect) till expansion.

- hope expansion is a success

- go ahead with expansions till the title remains profitable.


Only WoW managed to increase subscriptions over time. Even very successful titles like LOTRO lost people in the beginning and never "boomed hard".



As you see, Istaria did not keep enough of the initial 35K or so players.
Not listing the Odissey like Istaria story and cutting on the meat of the talk: the impossibility to keep an active healthy amount of players made impossible to maintain a C++ developers team for upgrading the client over the years (leading to i.e. the Vista incompatibility problems and to the lack of improvement at supporting better DirectX versions).
Losing the C++ developers team means basically that the title can:

- die
- receive content updates for the current players till it remains profitable
- receive content updates for the current players till as the developers feel fit: that is the game becomes a "volounteer" initiative, like some MUDs.
- try get a new C++ developers team.


The last option would be lovely, if only those bloodsuckers who do my same C++ programmer job would not be actually be paid.
This is why in other posts I suggested to try and put up an "open source" group. This would allow for good willed people to try tackle the client without being paid for doing so.


Offtopic: Due to Vista compatibility issues I can't play any more despite my 3 running subs.

But I keep the Istaria close in my heart. Even in in other games forums or movies!


Guess what is that appears at the beginning of this movie of mine:

http://files.filefront.com/WarPatch1.../fileinfo.html

[StalePopcorn]

Some good points Verokh, particularly with how new games approach marketing.

But perhaps that is why Istaria/Horizons has "stood the test of time". As has been mentioned here, people play Istaria because:
- no PvP, which instantly cuts out PvP-tards and l33t l0z3rz
- very friendly players (probably because of no PvP)
- Dragons
- Intense crafting

Regardless of the initial goals, the game is a niche product now. It may never again be possible to do a "major upgrade" of the client, unless they do something like open-source it to the community so people can update and provide modifications. Doubtful though - what MMORPG could open their client up so people could change it, and still have some sort of guarantee that it won't be the target of hackers? But perhaps the "no PvP" might stop those same people from bothering to try!

Now that VI has taken over, content is being updated, and even new and better things are planned (dungeons, for example), that will broaden the appeal to more folks. After all, most of us are still here, and the only major stumbling block is the whole Vista thing. That's a deal-breaker for some, and I'm sure it is being focused on by the devs.

Larger games seem to generate new revenue from adding new content and getting players to pay for it. But the team at the moment may be too small for that (lots of new content, lots of new quests, new NPCs, new items, etc. etc). It is a big undertaking to release that. Personally, I'd rather keep paying my monthly and get new content bit-by-bit! I like reading the patch notes. Must be the nerd in me

[Favoran]

But perhaps the "no PvP" might stop those same people from bothering to try!

Unless they added it.

I personally think that a Vista patch will help the game the most as far as players is concerned. Stale's right, HZ is rather a niche game, and it doesn't have the programming power at the moment for a huge overhaul that will turn that around. There's plenty of interested playerbase out there who would love this game who just haven't found it yet or who can't play it for one reason or another.

[Hrough]

If we get enough players, maybe a pvp shard could be something of a possibility to the devs. I really like -not- having pvp in Istaria, except for the arena.

I think getting the game working for most people is the most important thing - the content updates are for the sake of us existing players.

Although, I have been quietly 'plugging' this game wherever I go, especially for people looking for crafting games.

[Greenclaw1]

I'd buy an apple if they were compatible to everything I want to use. But not for the stupid reasons they list on their commercials.. I mean.. no viruses? That's only because so few people own them, it's not worth anyone's time to make viruses for macs. They have a solid operating system, but it's not really tested because there isn't really any diversity for it.

I really like their processors and graphics handling though.

If PC and Mac ever merged (the sooner the better) we might actually have the best of both worlds finally.

Mac owners are their own worst enemy when it comes to viruses. A lot of MAC owners ignorantly think they're immune to viruses. The first Mac virus was discovered in 2006. Since then the appearance of Mac viruses have been on the increase as Apple usage has grown. Just in the last couple months another Mac virus was discovered that allowed the attackers to take over a Mac. There are still less viruses for the MAC than the Pc has of course.

[Greenclaw1]

What I still don't understand with this new "Windows" whatever is why Microsoft can't get it right.... Why on earth can't they build a new OS that doesn't completely destroy compatibility with the most recent prior build of the OS?

I mean, I can understand that they can't go back and make a new one that's compatible with say Win98. But why the heck not XP? Maybe some people from Apple need to come over to Microsoft and show them how to build an OS right.

In all fairness APPLE OS is built upon Unix which was already pretty solid. They've just basically slapped a GUI over it. You can't give APPLE credit for the stability of UNIX which is the backbone to their OS, or can you?

[Soraii]

Well you can kinda give them credit for making it their backbone... though they didnt come up with the original base they made decent use of it

Soraii

[Rayth]

Interesting converatation.

Personally, I am waiting for this dungeon. But with the grouping and combat system as it exists now, I'm not sure how interesting this will turn out to be. Still paying for 2 accounts to see what they come up with.

From what I remember I still can't tell buffs/debuffs from the party interface. The concept of hate and aggro are super simplistic at best. Without target of target, it can be hard to do simple things like pull a mob off a healer, for example.

Is there really going to ever be a real boss fight? Something more then "I killz u wit meez uberz one shotz of deth!"?

I'm still real disappointed in the housing. They look cool, but no customization from what I remember. It was nice in UO and SWG. Things like furniture, for example.

So what happened to the lore in this game? Are they revisiting it? For example, weren't those stupid artifacts supposed to actually do something when completed? Things don't seem to really have a purpose right now other then "OMG we must kill teh undedz so dey don't overrunz us!". Which, of course, they really never do. The old building project that required adventurers to guard the craftsmen was interesting. Got the whole server contributing to a common goal. Major community projects is what kept me in the game for as long as it did.

The times that I log in are mostly to work on jewelcrafing or something for a bit and then log off.

I don't want to WoW/EQ/Vanguard raiding, as I don't want to have a schedule, but I would like something that doesn't put me to sleep while fighting. There was a bridge or something that respawned like crazy but I still fell asleep even though 4 of us were doing constant non-stop killing.

I saw the comment about Vista from the the person with a developer title. I understand the fustration, however Istaria is the only game I've pulled up from the past that I just couldn't get to work no matter what I did. Most of the games that I had issues with at least seems to run to the point I can play it for periods at a time. It's odd that there's no real resolution to this point. Of course I haven't bothered to really invistigate the challenges if they've been made public.

Good community game here. It has some good ideas. It's just a heavy crafting game with limited appeal to those who like to adventure. I have like 20 friends that call this "The maggot game" because of the bright idea to slaughter maggots for IBD's (I think it was for IBD turnins). With a very limited loot table you tend to take away any concept of a "reward" as well. You tend to farm for frags. Interesting to CGF's, bad for player fun.

Really not trying to be ultra critical or anything, just kind of mentioning things that would get motivated to log in.

[Caithleen]

HZ was one of the best games i ever played beside EQ1.

But time has gone, and now i would have to pay a FULL sub to enter a world that seems to have gone still for some years.

Id really try but not for a full sub.

And Takora .. it was the spirit of the people who helped out the newbies that made HZ unique.

The community made HZ unique.

But the community left due to those strange company deals one after one and if what remains isnt caring for the new, HZ will die even faster.

Make it not F2P, make it cheap, consent down to the strenghts of HZ : Community.

Get those WoW players pay a 2nd sub (aka 5$ e.g.) and enjoy Istaria after their WoW day got bored.... thats a beginning, not struggling against the big MMOG players with their current rates.

[Vlisson]

there is only a core community left, forged in iron and fire ^^

[Spirit]

- does not use DirectX9 nor pixel shaders (afaik) so it looks "retro'" even if the graphics are very nice (except water: HORRIBLE).

Yes that water... hmm...

Well if the water was improved it would probably show up some of the other graphics. However I'm sure it could be improved to be in the right 'look' for Istaria.

This is why in other posts I suggested to try and put up an "open source" group. This would allow for good willed people to try tackle the client without being paid for doing so.

The more I think about it, the more reasonable this suggestion becomes. Open up the client source to a screened set of individuals who could develop it. They could tweak/improve the engine within the confines of the server-end game mechanics; i.e. dx9, water, Vista.

Offtopic: Due to Vista compatibility issues I can't play any more despite my 3 running subs.

I've just retrofitted my new Dell with Xp. It's basically installed just for Horizons. Everything else I use works on Vista. If you're prepared to do the digging and the work then it takes no more than a few hours (I had to shrink my Vista partition to make room for xp, so this works better on a new system with nothing else installed). Once you no longer need Xp for Horizons (when it's Vista compatible), backup your settings/screenshots, delete the xp partition and expand the Vista one again.

The only thing I'd say is getting Xp drivers for some new systems can be tricky. I managed it, with the exception that my sound driver is 2 years old!!

Rakku

[Vlisson]

dont support Microsoft Games/Programms/Companies to get their stuff running on their OS?

[Takora Drakan]

dont support Microsoft Games/Programms/Companies to get their stuff running on their OS?

ROFL you made my day Vlisson! They don't give a fart if their OS is incompatible with programm X or Y.

[Tempests]

Ah the best laid plans of mice and men.... luckily we still have dragons about.... *winks*

[StalePopcorn]

dont support Microsoft Games/Programms/Companies to get their stuff running on their OS?

The technology itself may no longer be supported by Microsoft, even though the Operating Systems are. They have end-of-life support dates for most of their products.