The rant to end all rants

[Mensar]

The reason I label this the rant to end all rants.. is because it probably will be deleted soon after it's posted.. and I am quitting the game tomorrow, so there's the true "END" to the rant either way.

This was in another thread:

Folks, the remaining plot issues are enduring because the standard fixes and procedures are not working on them. It seems that each of these plots has some unique attribute at the root of the issue, even though the effect is identical, from a player's perspective, to other problems which have been long since resolved. Tracking down those unique elements of each problem and determining why the normal procedures are failing is very time consuming.

These plot issues have not been forgotten; however, in most cases, the problem is very elusive and there are, as yet, no updates to provide.

Not to nitpick, but the "remaining" plot issues are the ones that have been there the whole time PLUS the new ones that cropped up just before the auction

For example (and just relating to properties):
Buying a property makes it glitched so you can't plan on it, you can't build on it, you can't see any completed structures.. That's a huge one. How is that unique?

If you're going to have properties as a big draw to get subs, you might want to fix it so people can buy one and not have wait until the next server restart to be able to do anything with it?

How about being able to do planning on a plot? You can't see structures half the time the first time you place them which means deleting and trying again.. over and over while you move around the plot trying to get either close enough or far enough for it to work.

And then, presuming you can get the structure in, then you get the texturing bug so you can't see the actual dimensions of the structure in wireframe mode until you turn around the other way?

Then, presuming you use the Auto-move button to bump it up against the corner or side of the plot.. you get everything planned out and get the "you can't build that structure" because it's off the plot!

So you build a machine structure (in a lair or plot) and then find out that it only gives certain bonuses to certain races (dragon vs. biped) instead of just giving all bonuses to any skillset that can select it and use it.

So you decon it and only get 80% of the materials you used to make it.. what happened to the other 20% did the magical workers that helped you disassemble it decide to make off with some of it?

So you go do lairshaping.. find out you can do lairshaping independently because it gives all the same skill increases and benefits as dragon crafting does.. awesome! NO boring crafting for this dragon since I already have several dragons that can do crafting. But wait.. you can't get quests for the skills you use for lairshaping because nobody coded the trainers to check lairshaping OR crafting levels.. (they are the SAME, they get the SAME bonuses, the SAME skill increases.. working as intended is a COP OUT here).

So you continue to work on your lair only to realize you can't put structures together like you'd like to because you can't build under the entryway or place higher than T2 halls on the first floor? BROKEN!

So you plan around it and end up with a decent lair and.. woops, you forgot to leave space for something wayyy back up at the top.. where's the UNPLAN button? No button, so you spend half an hour playing the guessing game on which corridor is next for deletion and waiting for each and every one to be queued to actually be erased before you can select the next one... which is even worse if you're actually deconning the lair.

And where do those novians go? Into your vault.. so the first time someone decons a few rooms their vault becomes unusable? Why not make Novians Zero bulk? I mean, what's the point? Having them weigh 12 bulk each just means the vault will never work again until they either spend or delete almost ALL of their novians. That's definitely broken.

And we won't even get into how broken the x-axis interaction range is for storage structures in a lair.. practically have to be standing on them. Granted, you can reach them from below for floors down, but that's a glitch that actually works for you since the Z axis is broken.. which also allows you to stand over a structure (on the floor above it) and build it without being next to it.

So then you build a smelting room, and a biped can't use the very special and oh-so interesting looking "dragon forge".. oooohhh ahhhhhh. Ok, so why can a dragon make the same things on a not-so-interesting anvil that they can make on the "dragon forge" but a biped can't make anything on the dragon forge? LAZINESS! Simply change the NAME of the OBJECT from "dragon forge" to "Anvil" and bipeds would be able to use it.. WOW, that was HARD!

And let's not get started back into the fact that an ANVIL doesn't give scale crafting bonuses even though it can be used to make SCALES... again, another laziness issue.. each machine gives ONE set of bonuses apparently and nobody wants to update it to include multiple skillsets bonuses that use that machine.. like a cauldron. Transmutation chambers have one, why can't they be used for .. ooh, let's see.. what can you do in a cauldron? How bout COOK or ALCHEMY? Nope, sorry.. that's a "special" cauldron.. you can only use it to make those things, but not get a bonus for them... what is there some magical aura that makes it only work GOOD for a certain skill vs the others that can use the structure? Broken!

Blacksmith - gets a little exp for processing raw materials and much more for processing blacksmithing items. Armorcrafter - gets a little exp for processing raw materials and much more for making armor. ANY NON-prestige crafting class that has no prerequisite levels up with a small amount of exp for processing raw materials and a much larger amount of exp for actually performing the task they get better at as they level. EXCEPT GATHERER! They learn a little bit from processing raw materials. WHere's the other half? WHere's the LARGER half? There isn't one. Why don't you get exp for performing the task you get better at as you level? There's nothing there. Hence.. broken. A Dev said it's a "secondary class", whatever that is. Make it a prestige class or fix it so that you get exp that's in line with all the other crafting classes. BROKEN!

How about the stackable crystals? If you put them in a socketed item, then take the crystal out and drop it into your inventory, if there's another of the same crystal that it will jump to and stack on top of.. you keep the qualities of that crystal in the socketed item and still have another open socket and can do that as many times as you can find crystals to put in it.. talking claws, weapons, armor and tools with 10 attribute boosters, etc. People are taking advantage of these types of exploits and it's STILL BROKEN.

I could go on and on and on.. but the point is, these are the things that grate on people. Especially when they take the time to point out that they're broken, but nothing gets done besides some LORE gets made up to justify why it's broken.. which is ridiculous.

So.. fix it or it'll end up pushing more people away.. as for me? I tried to make a difference, I tried to think outside the box. I submited tickets 8 months ago that are STILL not taken care of, but that reflect "closed". I owned 6 subscriptions in this game and enjoyed it this time around. But I'm out and it's very doubtful that I"ll be back.

Peace folks.

[Frith-Rae]

I agree with most of your rant but am truly sorry to see you go Mensar.

The only one I've not encountered is the lairshaping quests for new abilities - those have always worked for me so far...so I can't speak to that one.

But the rest - right on. May you find quieter skies that fulfill your hopes elsewhere. Perhaps one day you can revisit - and we'll still be here .

[Takora Drakan]

I hope you find what are you looking for Mensar.

[AmonGwareth]

I felt I had to reply because I wanted to address some of the issues Mensar brought up.

Not to nitpick, but the "remaining" plot issues are the ones that have been there the whole time PLUS the new ones that cropped up just before the auction

You are right, some of the plot bugs are long-standing. I'm sorry you feel they are being ignored, they aren't. A small staff means that even important issues take time. Especially when there are multiple important issues at the same time.

So you build a machine structure (in a lair or plot) and then find out that it only gives certain bonuses to certain races (dragon vs. biped) instead of just giving all bonuses to any skillset that can select it and use it.

We've gone back and forth about this and we as a content team have never really come to a good decision about it. Some of us favor it, some don't.

So you decon it and only get 80% of the materials you used to make it.. what happened to the other 20% did the magical workers that helped you disassemble it decide to make off with some of it?

No, this is the cost of being able to disassemble your structure. Consider it like portal costs, they are the cost of playing the game. Yes, it would be nice to get 100% back. But games need time and money sinks, and this is one.

So you go do lairshaping.. find out you can do lairshaping independently because it gives all the same skill increases and benefits as dragon crafting does.. awesome! NO boring crafting for this dragon since I already have several dragons that can do crafting. But wait.. you can't get quests for the skills you use for lairshaping because nobody coded the trainers to check lairshaping OR crafting levels.. (they are the SAME, they get the SAME bonuses, the SAME skill increases.. working as intended is a COP OUT here).

No, not a cop out. A design decision. You can't do the crafting quests because you don't get crafting abilities as a lairshaper. And you don't get any XP for making the materials and products that the crafting quests ask you to.

So you continue to work on your lair only to realize you can't put structures together like you'd like to because you can't build under the entryway or place higher than T2 halls on the first floor? BROKEN!

Not necessarily. Often this is the result of the terrain intruding upon the first level of your lair. You have 9 more, use them.

So you plan around it and end up with a decent lair and.. woops, you forgot to leave space for something wayyy back up at the top.. where's the UNPLAN button? No button, so you spend half an hour playing the guessing game on which corridor is next for deletion and waiting for each and every one to be queued to actually be erased before you can select the next one... which is even worse if you're actually deconning the lair.

Yes, I agree that the planning screen needs improvement. I haven't seen any threads or posts on suggested improvements to it. Maybe you should post one and get a discussion started about it?

And where do those novians go? Into your vault.. so the first time someone decons a few rooms their vault becomes unusable? Why not make Novians Zero bulk? I mean, what's the point? Having them weigh 12 bulk each just means the vault will never work again until they either spend or delete almost ALL of their novians. That's definitely broken.

Not broken. Broken means it is a bug. When they were created, they were set at 12 bulk. Its an easy change, its just not one that we've really considered before.

And we won't even get into how broken the x-axis interaction range is for storage structures in a lair.. practically have to be standing on them. Granted, you can reach them from below for floors down, but that's a glitch that actually works for you since the Z axis is broken.. which also allows you to stand over a structure (on the floor above it) and build it without being next to it.

Z axis isn't broken. Broken would mean it was there but not working. There is no Z axis in the game to begin with.

So then you build a smelting room, and a biped can't use the very special and oh-so interesting looking "dragon forge".. oooohhh ahhhhhh. Ok, so why can a dragon make the same things on a not-so-interesting anvil that they can make on the "dragon forge" but a biped can't make anything on the dragon forge? LAZINESS! Simply change the NAME of the OBJECT from "dragon forge" to "Anvil" and bipeds would be able to use it.. WOW, that was HARD!

If only it were that easy. In this case, it isn't. Renaming it would not change what it is underneath. But yea, we could modify it so that a biped could use a dragon forge. Though it is a SCALE-FORGE. Not a smelter or anvil.

And let's not get started back into the fact that an ANVIL doesn't give scale crafting bonuses even though it can be used to make SCALES... again, another laziness issue.. each machine gives ONE set of bonuses apparently and nobody wants to update it to include multiple skillsets bonuses that use that machine.. like a cauldron. Transmutation chambers have one, why can't they be used for .. ooh, let's see.. what can you do in a cauldron? How bout COOK or ALCHEMY? Nope, sorry.. that's a "special" cauldron.. you can only use it to make those things, but not get a bonus for them... what is there some magical aura that makes it only work GOOD for a certain skill vs the others that can use the structure? Broken!

Already discussed this above. Its not broken. It was decided to be that way. But again, the content team is divided on the issue.

Blacksmith - gets a little exp for processing raw materials and much more for processing blacksmithing items. Armorcrafter - gets a little exp for processing raw materials and much more for making armor. ANY NON-prestige crafting class that has no prerequisite levels up with a small amount of exp for processing raw materials and a much larger amount of exp for actually performing the task they get better at as they level. EXCEPT GATHERER! They learn a little bit from processing raw materials. WHere's the other half? WHere's the LARGER half? There isn't one. Why don't you get exp for performing the task you get better at as you level? There's nothing there. Hence.. broken. A Dev said it's a "secondary class", whatever that is. Make it a prestige class or fix it so that you get exp that's in line with all the other crafting classes. BROKEN!

Gatherer is not like Blacksmith or any processing class. There are no products to make as a gatherer. It is similar to Miner. They are special classes. What larger half? You get experience for processing the resources you gather. Thats working as designed.

How about the stackable crystals? If you put them in a socketed item, then take the crystal out and drop it into your inventory, if there's another of the same crystal that it will jump to and stack on top of.. you keep the qualities of that crystal in the socketed item and still have another open socket and can do that as many times as you can find crystals to put in it.. talking claws, weapons, armor and tools with 10 attribute boosters, etc. People are taking advantage of these types of exploits and it's STILL BROKEN.

This is a known issue. Yes, we know it is important. Refer back to my statement about small team and many important tasks. For reference, the programmers that work on the client are now the same that work on the simulation, and the database, and the launcher, and every other programming task. See the issue?

I know my answers probably won't make you feel any better about it, but I felt like I needed to address your concerns. I am sorry you are leaving the game, but I hope you will check back with us periodically and give us another chance.

Happy gaming wherever you end up, Mensar.

[Teto Frum]

Sorry packing it in is the conclusion youve come to Mensar. Youve been a very energetic addition to forum and game. I understand where your coming from and share in your frusration. As someone whos spent half of VIs time in game and the other following along from outside, your rant and Amon response cuts right to heart of the matter.

Theres two lines of thought, game improvements vs. new content. The very veteren player base who float the financial boat want new content. The game needs improvements to mechanics and graphics if it is to grow. With a small team Vi has been very honest and as Amons post reads only one can be addressed at a time. So Vi has split ther time on them accomplishing each slower than either camp would like.

I certainly understand their situation, though understanding and being ok with something can be two totally different things. Good luck to you Mensar I hope where ever you end up it provides the same enjoyment you got from Istaria that led you to get 6 accounts, sometimes the fact that these things are supposed to be fun gets lost in all the frustration.

[Hrough]

You know, I don't want to sound hostile...I do agree that many of these things need to be looked at or worked on, but you need to have realistic expectations, especially given the workforce VI currently has.

Anyone who has ever tried programing on a team, for a single client, will realize how complicated something as simple as 'I want a purple color scheme' can become. (True story: Spent 2 hours with our client last week tweaking colors on her project) I can look at what our small team of junior programmers can accomplish within a month, and try to relate it with some stretch to what I imagine VI's current size is, added in the sheer amount of content they need to add and fix, and suddenly I understand 'crap, that's a lot of work.'

They are doing what they can.... A work day is only 8 hours, and 5 days a week, and if they're like any of the programmers I know, they probably put some amount of overtime into it, because they can just taste the one line of code that'll fix the bug that has haunted their dreams for months.

We're all frustrated with the bugs...

I hope you find a game that suits you better. It sounds like you just need an overall break from Istaria if these things are eating at you so badly.

[Velea]

They are doing what they can.... A work day is only 8 hours, and 5 days a week, and if they're like any of the programmers I know, they probably put some amount of overtime into it, because they can just taste the one line of code that'll fix the bug that has haunted their dreams for months.

First, thank you Hrough, for the understanding.

And second, thank you for the chuckle. Were our days only 8 hours long and 5 per week! As of this posting, I've already worked a 12 hour day minus half an hour for dinner with my kids. Now not every day is like that. Some days I really do only work 8. But there isn't a day that has gone by in a long long tmie that I haven't worked at least a few hours on some part of Istaria, and I can say that pattern holds true for the rest of the team as well.

[Hrough]

Haha, I just put the standard hours people are 'used to', because that's what most people will only understand.

I'm in a programming-heavy course, and we stay afterschool nearly 1-4 hours every day. This is on basic assignments like 'here's a card game you have to program, you have two weeks, you can pick one partner, GO'. Those simple card games / hangman whatever, would eat up all of two people's lives. I quickly developed an understanding that programming is not easy, and even 'simple' programs can be messed up by one missed semicolon that you won't find for a week because your compiler refuses to point out that the error is on line 45, not 78.

I actually refused to pick up any hours for my part-time job over christmas break, because I need a rest after what this course has put me through so far. I wonder how anyone does programming for a living without killing anyone.

[Creme]

Well, I agree that many of the items on the list are annoying, but most can be worked around as far as the plot/lair bugs go.

The only thing that is particularly annoying to me now, is that if a player only has a single sub, they are unable to log onto another character to trade the plot/lair to so that it can be unbugged.

This means that the player has to wait until restart after purchasing their plot/lair to be able to do anything with it. I don't think this is particularly fair. Perhaps there needs to be some "priority" CS queue for single accounts so that any plot/lair issues can be addressed within 24 hours, rather than having to wait for restart to take care of it.

I also recently had a problem where completing structures on a lair caused the lair to "break". Trading fixed it; in all but 1 situation. I completed a vault and trading didn't allow the vault to activate (the activate option remained missing).

Restart did fix that however.

As for not being allowed halls in L0, I was able to plan and complete a T6GH on level 0; although IIRC, for the life of me, I was unable to plan a T6 hall on L0.

p.s. the 0 bulk on novians is an excellent suggestion.

p.p.s. Part of me fears that with auctions having come and gone, that the plot/lair issues will drop as a priority as fewer people will be buying/trading plots. There has been little mention recently of fixes in this area.

[Velea]

Is it not at all true that these drop as an issue, Creme. That is what has been causing my 10 to 12 hour days.

[Creme]

Very glad to hear it, although again, as there is less activity in buying/selling now, there are probably fewer incidents.

I also know that you have shown incredible dedication to working all the land issues in Istaria and have spent lots of long hours in trying to make the land a better place and provide happier homes for many.

[Teto Frum]

I disagree 100% Hrough the last thing you need when talking about Istaria is realistic expectations. I think most people would think realistically that game over 5 years old would have behind current day standards of graphics and client, but that game would be basically bug free, this christmas will be my fourth in Istaria and games still has bugs from when i started and is far from bug free. Realistically looking at Istaria I feel being that the cost per month is right in line with more modern flashier games, that it would be maintained and new content added to game at a similar pace, alo that tech support would on par with other equally priced games.

This might shock a few people on here too, but you didnt need to dumb down the work day hours for us, theres a couple proffesions that work overtime occasionally too. To the I understand it why can't you guys understand tone off your post, ive always thought that its the whole MMO making world that doesnt understand it...everyone is in shock when people start bailing on games that are all screwed up, well i might not understand programing but i understand that VI is working hard and doing their best, because thats not good enough for me affter 4 years ingame with the monthly price it carries doesnt mean i don't understand , it means im not ok with it.

[LOVWYRM]

Mensar, don`t get me wrong- I hate to see you leave- but I do not understand!

I think it`s all in the eye of the beholder-
we all had/have this probs. Talking about me and my friends: We solve(d) them, we live with them, we avoid them aso- and still have a lot of fun.
Cause we love the game. Cause we know, that VI does the best they can-
and more!-to keep us satisfied.
And we reward that with our patience, and support it with our subcriptions.

In RL I do not expect the world to turn around me- and like we say here
"life is no musical request programme".

Sure, we give our good money to VI- but do they betray us? Do they not listen to our wishes, demands and needs?
Do they not let us know about the things that are goin`on?

As often said in this forum- Istaria is a very special game, with very special players. Love it - or leave it- maybe it`s that easy.

(*nudges Mensar*- hey- think it over- thought you were one of us )

(@ Creme: It works to trade plot within one sub- if you have a second pc and you are fast)

[Hrough]

Sorry, Teto, it's just been eating at me for nearly a year now.

This might shock a few people on here too, but you didnt need to dumb down the work day hours for us, theres a couple proffesions that work overtime occasionally too.

You're right about that, but a lot of people don't work in those professions. I would have not understood this either if it weren't for this course, as I work a 'simple' restraunt job.

Also, yes the game is five years old, but how many of those years were spent with incompetant devs that caused it to nearly die? If all of those years were spent with actual development going on, I don't think this would be an acceptable state for this game. But VI is currently having to clean up the mess, and build ontop of it.

As for planning halls on level 0, I've been able to plan a few there no problem. I currently have a tier 1 hall commited to be built on level 0/1. I didn't know there was actually a problem with that, but if there was one, I guess it would be because of the way the terrain of some lairs is shaped?

Again, sorry. I really do not wish to argue, so I apologize for my tone. I'm just saying things the way I see it, while trying to respect the opinions of others.

[LOVWYRM]

I again totally agree with you, Hrough!

[Teto Frum]

Firstly Hrough, don't refer to your job as just a "simple" restauant job, it may be that because your going to school and dream of better employment, but for plenty of folks it is there job and all they are going to do. A job is a job, its way to feed your family, to me no one job is more important than another because of this fact.

Your right for a chunk of that 5 years after release Istaria had bad or no development going on. VI did buy and save istaria as far as im concerned, but they bought a mess, they knew they bought a mess, everyone in game knew they bought a mess. Lets be honest though , other than core long term base, who do you think cares about that. Do you think a new player with no knowledge of how great Istaria is, is going to fight with Vista like regulars do, no they'll move on. Do you think someone starting today cares about how hard and long Velea works on game, when they just start and encounter all the bugs Mensars talking about, i dont think they will.

I'm sorry but i find it hard to believe that a new player who just paid for game, was lucky enough to still have XP, is paying his monthly dues, just finished his own 12 hour work day(dreaming of building his lair when he gets home), where his boss demands perfection or else, is going to have more expectations than the core does that hes not going to have to trade his new lair to someone and get it back just to built it.

In your restauant you work in Hrough, how long do you think it would be open if it served meals all night with as many errors as Istaria has, not long id bet. I think there needs to be an understanding that player base has been very understanding. Im not ragging on istaria because i dont like it, i love it never called anywhere home longer, but its got warts that need fixing if it hopes to survive, attracting new players is a near waste of time with all the bugs.

[Teto Frum]

LOL and oh yea i don't want to argue either, and i apologize as well, but whats been eating me is the fact that whenever youve got a dissenting view your immediately jumped on as not understanding the big picture, or just plain anti Istaria

[Takora Drakan]

Pointing bugs and problems out is fine. But ranting and grumping all the time over and over when the bugs are known a) doesn't slove the problem and b) just pisses current players.

Or would you like it when someone rants about your 5 year old teddybear that you still like when you know it has its flaws?

[Teto Frum]

If i had a flawed Teddy bear that i charged a monthly fee to play with and ran a forum encouraging input on, I'd take it for what is, a paying customer passing on their opinion of my Teddy bear, and if i wanted to keep on charging people to play with it id fix it, i wouldnt explain to them i found it in this shape, you should feel lucky i even bother with it the amount of work it is, others like it if you dont go away and take your money with you.

I'm grateful VI bought Istaria and kept it alive, caring whether it gets fixed and lasts another 5, is where im coming from. Takora theres not enough residents like you that think everything is fine, but expecially since i renewed my account, even though ive yet to log in, i dont want to piss the base off, so ill leave it at that and hope more people share your patience than mine and hope Istarias always arround for me to visit

[Takora Drakan]

If you want to say with your post that I am a "yes sayer", you are wrong. I don't say that all is fine, but maybe you have to loose your char for more than a year to understand how grateful I am VI that they saved the Unity players and charged no extra costs for the transfer for it.

The game has it's bugs and problems but the devs are no superheroes that can snip with their hands and fix the game. Patience is needed much for playing the game, and the developing. Most players that don't have the patience will leave anyway, and those "the sky is falling bye bye posts" are nothing more than hot air mostly.

If someone thinks that VI is doing such a terrible job, they should do it better or leave it game be, but ranting all the time about the bugs changes nothing when the devs know the bugs and are working on fixing them.