Nadia Discussion

[Soraii]

really what harm is she doing?
if you don't want to partake of her goods, then don't.
why should those of us who do, for whatever reason, not have her? so what if we are lazy or rich or whatever evil thing we are?
its enough that we got rid of all her kin (after, i might add, i spend a fortune in gp buying forms.......so much for the economic stimulus angle....)

still very totally most emphatically against getting rid of nadia..........

I am completely against getting rid of her on blight for any reason... I use her to test scales before I make them on live... which I mostly farm comps on live

The Blight Nadia helps save me time in getting comps and making a scaleset that I wont end up using >_>

Soraii

[AmonGwareth]

I would suggest leaving nadia until there exists an asynchronous method for ordering comps.

We need a broker, kind of like a consigner but when you want a comp you put the money up and the anyone else can come along and sell the comp to the broker, where the seller gets the money and the component goes into the buyers vault. This would allow a person to offer to purchase a component without the need for both people to be online at the same time.

Theramin

There is a broker, Sir Aidan. The other is gonna have to be done by players as has been discussed (a website or here or something) as there are no plans at this time for reverse-consignment.

[Vortura]

At the moment Nadia is the only gold sink in the game, what else can be implemented to perform this task?

Also, to ease people's pain and anguish, you might try weaning them off her by raising her prices a few times before removing her or turning her into a T6 named mob.

She can't possibly be of any use to anyone if you can't afford her prices.

[Frith-Rae]

really what harm is she doing?
if you don't want to partake of her goods, then don't.
why should those of us who do, for whatever reason, not have her? so what if we are lazy or rich or whatever evil thing we are?
its enough that we got rid of all her kin (after, i might add, i spend a fortune in gp buying forms.......so much for the economic stimulus angle....)

still very totally most emphatically against getting rid of nadia..........

Actually Vel - I agree with this point as well - depending.

I see this as an excuse to get a things done with comps and loot tables that has needed to be done for *years* that, with Nadia in the game, the company can avoid having to deal with and actually fix . Anything not being dropped - oh you can buy it. Don't like the 1/40 drop rate - oh you can buy it (at to me extremely exhorbitant prices)

With murmurs from the devs that perhaps Nadia has served her purpose and is no longer needed - tells me that they perhaps coudl use it as impetus to get in gear to fix these particular problems (and as I said FIRST before removing her).

(note that I"m not implying devs are otherwise sitting around and doing nothing...)

And I see other's point that IF the devs actually FIX what needs to be fixed and make things more relatively "sane" to gather , then Nadia serves a purpose of hurt (to me a way for crafters and adventurers to not need each other as much), rather than help.

If however issues are not addressed - no, Nadia needs to stay in.

She can't possibly be of any use to anyone if you can't afford her prices.

Honestly as it stands now I'd be willing to bet that she's not of use to the *majority* of players due to her current prices. (Without say farming for a week or two for cash instead of components to buy them...)

[Steele]

IFor example, the Mithril golem loot table had a much higher percent chance of dropping ore before dropping tech comps or trophies. Removing the ore increases the chance of the other two. Besides, if you want ore you still get it by gathering from the dead golem itself.

...does this mean we'll be able to harvest dead spiders for silk, if we so desire, instead of getting it piecemeal as loot and having to delete after every other kill?

Harvesting dead spiders to get a cloth equivalent resource would be kinda neat, even if a little far-fetched from a "realist" perspective. As someone who tends to lean a bit toward keeping stuff on the side of realistic, I'd still support such a change since cloth is the only resource that does not have a mob-harvestable node source.

Skinnable animals, metal/stone/gem golems and treants cover the other primary five resources; essence is kinda its own beast, though storm ogres confuddle that a little by dropping normal essence on death.

Oh, here's another suggestion (I'm sure I sent this in as in-game feedback at somepoint, but whatever)... please consider consolidating Storm Ogre jawbones, Thunder Ogre jawbones, Lightning Ogre jawbones and Tempest Ogre jawbones into one dang type of jawbone! Using those weapon techs (I haven't been around much lately, but I think it's 1/2HC V, 1/2HS V, 1HP V) is always inordinately painful because you have to either selectively hunt one of four possible random ogre types in the same spawn area, while dealing with Wind Golem adds... or you have to exterminate everything in the area and pray that when you tally up at the end, the right type of ogre happened to drop the jawbone you need in the quantity you were hoping for.

It was excessively frustrating to need 10 or 12 Storm Ogre jawbones when I finally made my new set of gear, and my guildmates might remember this... Djanee, Sonea, Quo, feel free to let everyone how much I whined... I kept a tally over multiple evenings that reached OVER FIFTY Storm Ogres killed without a single jawbone. It damned-near enraged me when I'd kill a Thunder Ogre add and the stupid thing would drop two of exactly the jawbone I DIDN'T need. Not one jawbone of the type I didn't need; oh no, that wasn't insulting enough. The randomizer had to decide two was the appropriate number.

...and yes, I know the randomizer isn't sentient and wasn't trying to insult me, but this episode was literally 6+ months ago and it still ticks me off thinking about it. No game experience should leave a player that lastingly bitter, under any circumstances.

So yeah... I guess that's my 2cp for now. lol

[AmonGwareth]

...does this mean we'll be able to harvest dead spiders for silk, if we so desire, instead of getting it piecemeal as loot and having to delete after every other kill?

No, you won't. Spiders aren't composed of silk, Golems ARE composed of ore.

I think we'll leave the jawbones as they are. Sorry.

[Steele]

...without even looking at the droprates? Those Ogres do drop unblighted, raw shining essence (I guess someone figured it was close to receiving bottled lightning from them or something); perhaps uncluttering their loot tables a tad would make bring the jawbone droprates into the realm of reasonable?

[AmonGwareth]

Droprates and combining jawbones are very different things. I have no problem looking at the drop rates.

[Steele]

I shoulda been more specific, I guess. Figured fifty kills with no jaws (I swear to whatever and whoever that's no exaggeration Amon!) would have been a hint there could be a seperate issue.

Thanks for adding them to your radar tho; much appreciated.

[Guaran]

Honestly as it stands now I'd be willing to bet that she's not of use to the *majority* of players due to her current prices. (Without say farming for a week or two for cash instead of components to buy them...)

This sounds like an argument for her removal


If they leave her in, simply x6 the prices so that say a t5 comp is 500 to 800s.

Money Sink: check
Nadia left in for those who want her or can afford her: check
Players who use nadia significantly reduced, and actually hunt for most all their own comps, or get them from other players (good argument for removing her): check

I wouldn't do this until the non dropping items actually drop again. (which Amon has said has been taken care of)

[Trust]

Guaran has a good point. There is an old rule in sales; quick service, quality service, and cheap service... pick two of the three. Nadia covers the first two.

[gopher65]

I shoulda been more specific, I guess. Figured fifty kills with no jaws (I swear to whatever and whoever that's no exaggeration Amon!)

Very much so. Those things have terrible drop rates. So much so that I have never successfully completed an item by hunting them.

[Jayne]

Only speaking for my guild, I discourage buying from nadia. If someone needs comps I and others take them and we hunt them. I am actually working on a guild event soon that will eventually get us suppling compa to shard.

[Galilee]

One question on taking resources off loot-tables (while I see it would be good for a raise in comp-chances): this would mean dragons becoming dependant on bipeds for some resources they can get out of loottables themselves now. There are quests (for instance the crafting-quest to attune to trandalar, but there are others) asking for wood and/or fabrics (and wood is also needed for dragons that want to socket things). Now, they can collect fabrics and wood from spiders and treants - what if that possibility goes; would that be acceptable to the average dragon?

[Soraii]

Hrrm Trandolar attunement.... on both of my dragons I found a biped for the raw cloth resources. And as for the boards... I was hard pressed for boards some time back so I created a biped ran it to NT talked to the gatherer trainer, made the boards I needed and consigned them. Logged on Alaysar bought the boards and made the claws.

Granted it was not 2to1 or even near opt.. but a newly created biped can make the boards it doesnt require any work leveling at all.

Soraii

[AmonGwareth]

RE: Ogres

Got them cleaned up. Storm Ogres dropped no loot? huh.

[Guaran]

One question on taking resources off loot-tables (while I see it would be good for a raise in comp-chances): this would mean dragons becoming dependant on bipeds for some resources they can get out of loottables themselves now. There are quests (for instance the crafting-quest to attune to trandalar, but there are others) asking for wood and/or fabrics (and wood is also needed for dragons that want to socket things). Now, they can collect fabrics and wood from spiders and treants - what if that possibility goes; would that be acceptable to the average dragon?

Trandalar's attune quests come in both a crafting flavor and an adventure flavor. The quests for cotton or oak do not need to be done by dragons. Simply do the kill tasks instead. It's less options I suppose, but Trandalar is no panacea for dragon crafting. The kill tasks are more fun anyway.

Not really a big deal imho.

FYI: The Dragon Breath quests state to hunt trandalar for splinters but they actually drop from skeletons in western deadlands, not the northern. The quest text just needs updated.

In any case, Trandalar can always be reached by climbing the Tower of Sorcery, or crossing the ice from Ice Island.

[Aaelefein]

If one looks at these posts a bit deeper, I am finding one common...is suppose pattern between those that are unabashedly against Nadia and those totally for.

Those that play primarily for the hunting and adventuring are against Nadia;
while those that are primarily crafters are for keeping her in-game. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does seem to be the way things are leaning.

As things stand now, primarily hunters can already out-earn by a huge margin those that are primarily crafters.

Excluding comps, a moderately competent hunter can earn more in an hour just selling looted forms, hoard, trophies, etc than any crafter can in the same time period.

So now it seems the 'idea' is...is to improve the economy by removing Nadia, thus making it necessary for people to actualy hunt comps. It's been said many times in this thread...Hunters don't hunt comps because there's not enough coin in it for them. WOW! Using T5 tech comps as an example, so what now? We give those that primarily hunt even more coin...get say 4 comps in an hour for a single tech...and BAM...100-500s?

HOW does that improve the economy? What the heck does the poor crafter do to earn his coin to buy the comps from this 'new' economy? If you are considering going down this road, at least consider removing the cap on the pawn brokers...so now any crafter of any tier has a chance of making coin again vs he he hits the pawnbroker first for the day wins.

Yes...I use Nadia a lot. It certainly isn't because I'm not capable. It has to do with time and frustration. Some comps I gather my own comps, those at least I know I have a chance of getting what I need without spending weeks doing so. Others, which have all been named in this thread...I can earn enough coin in a day or two to buy the rest...faster, easier, and MUCH LESS frustration.

Another question one must ask. What is the purpose of the game now. I thought it was to have fun...or is it to see who has the biggest wallet? Other than comps, which these comp-hunters can get on their own so don't need to buy...what else is money used for except maybe a plot? Oh YEAH...trophies so they can level their uber-classed bipeds. BUt that is an entirely different subject to which I have a beef.

I think I'll stop there...I just hope I've brought up some points for people to ponder.

[Creme]

Well, originally I believe the concept was to have some measure of interdependence between hunters and crafters.

However, there seems to be more full-time crafters, part-time hunters.

Removing Nadia would require crafters to rely on what few hunters remain.

I recall the days when there were adventurers that did not like to craft. There might be a few still around. The question is, what incentive would there be for them to go into the comp-providing business?

Currently trophy sales seems to be where coin can be readily made.

As I mentioned either in this thread, or another, if Nadia is removed, perhaps the mechanisms by which crafters earn coin needs to be reviewed.

It could very well be that this cannot even be evaluated, until such time as she is removed and the results assessed.

[Knossos]

Creme, I hope we do not on Order Shard do such an experiment of removing Nadia at the present time. We have on Order a very small population and to run such live experiments runs high risk of further reducing our numbers. I do a lot of crafting of t5 armor for players on order shard. Those players furnish the t5 tech comps and I can see examining them which ones still carry the Nadia cost. It is not an insignificant percentage which have been purchased from Nadia.

So the alternative is to depend on players to hunt these tech comps - but are there enough comp hunting players on order to fill the gap - and would those players find it fun to humt comps instead of whatever else they are now doing for fun? I believe Aaelefein's post earlier in this thread speaks to this point on Order shard. I expect that the picture on Chaos shard might be quite different.

Knossos