Crazy Gold Burst Thread (you have been warned)

[Galdethriel]

Long agooooo, when the grumpy old dragon elders were young, fat and sparkily, there was (apparently) an ability called Gold Burst.

In recent times, there was a young and foolish dragon spellcaster who, in choosing her path, sacrificed much of the power that Gold Rage provided. Long a dream was the thousand-damaging strikes; no, this caster, and many like her, did not manage such. It is said that there were even some who forsaked their passion of magic, wholly or partially, to access Gold Rage's power.

/smellyandstupidnarratorvoice off

Soooo. :P Today I've been playing my hatchie--first *ever* melee dragon I've had on HZ and that I plan to keep going on. One of the main attractions for pulling a melee was thinking about how great it would be to have Gold Rage. (Galde's Gold Rage burns with the heat of a hundred suns, then splutters and coughs to a puff of smoke as it touches the enemy XD )

I started talking to my friend about an ability I had heard of in the past called Gold Burst, the caster equivalent to Gold Rage. :P

Then he popped up with the idea that perhaps you could choose between questing for Gold Rage and questing for Gold Burst--you could have one OR the other, depending on what you wanna be.

So I think this could work:

Gold Burst--

-same damage output as Gold Rage, except it draws on primal and power instead of t&c and strength
-same hoard cost
-same or slightly longer cast time
-same recycle
-same quest requirements (so, if you had to kill 20 of X for your Gold Rage quest, you'd still have to kill 20 of X for the Gold Burst quest)
-would probably use a casting animation instead of a slashing one

Am I missing anything else? XD

I don't see any balancing issues with this, especially between bipeds and dragons, so I don't think those kinda talks need brought up here. :P Though it would afford casters the same battle potential as melee fighters.

Also, I apologise if this has been brought up before.

And see, I TOLD you my next suggestion would be even more annoying/crazy. Huzzah! XD

~Galde

[Takora Drakan]

Gold burst is still on Blight I saw a few dragons with them. What they told me it is really a hoard burner and extremly powerful, if you spam goldrage you can shot most mobs down in a few seconds from the distance, if you don't run out of hoard while spamming it. It really needs still some polishing and balancing before going live.

[GalemThawn]

Do a search for Gold Burst and you'll find http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=18380 http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=12949
and a few other threads with a lot of different ideas being thrown around.

[Favoran]

I don't know about one or the other. I like to use both fighting styles with Favoran. Though, GR is truly next to useless for casters... A year ago I could get 2k in one GR without breaking a sweat. Yesterday I used it and got not even 1k damage. I made the switch to caster and now it's hurting in some ways... GR isn't worth the hoard anymore for me.

But I woudlnt' want one or the other because then I'd still be in this situation. I started as a melee and made the switch to caster over time. If we had had to choose, I would have chosen GR, not GB, and I would still be super weak as a caster. :/

[Galdethriel]

Maybe there could be some means of replacing one with the other? Or perhaps as an ancient you could get the high-end version of the one you didn't learn. It would at least contribute something towards making Ancients better than Adults.

I don't know if it would make dragons TOO strong if they were to have both. :/

Gold burst is still on Blight I saw a few dragons with them. What they told me it is really a hoard burner and extremly powerful, if you spam goldrage you can shot most mobs down in a few seconds from the distance, if you don't run out of hoard while spamming it. It really needs still some polishing and balancing before going live.

Are they intentionally bringing it back, though, or is that just a remnant of the past? :O

~Galde

[Solitaire]

It was never really in to begin with, only on Blight for testing purposes. I have an old copy there that was given the ability to test and I can confirm that it was a very powerful but hoard burning attack. I won't say more because I don't know where it currently stands, but it is not a remnant and has a future in some form.

[Raptress]

There is a fairly serious problem with having one choose between them to the exclusion of the other, and that is the casters that already have Gold Rage. The solution I see is having them share a cooldown. That way, one can pick the one best for a given situation, or just use one and leave the other off their bar.

There is a problem in giving Gold Burst much of a range, obviously, and that is kiting to a serious degree.

Since this is the most recent thread, I may as well post this here: I would not be dissatisfied with a copy-paste job of Gold Rage as a Primal-fueled version for Gold Burst. It'd be nice to see it as a point-blank AoE though (maybe like one GR swing per mob, though that could be a bit high as I don't know how many mobs casters at high levels handle at one time), since that seems to be the niche that dragon casters fill.

[Deth]

*Emissary Hat on.*

There are on going talks about this. It has not been dropped but balance issues are being worked out. No ETA as normal but it is not forgotten.

*Emissary Hat off.*

[Firebrand]

As a strong supporter of Gold Burst since years, I can't agree more.

Gold Burst--

-same damage output as Gold Rage, except it draws on primal and power instead of t&c and strength
-same hoard cost
-same or slightly longer cast time
-same recycle
-same quest requirements (so, if you had to kill 20 of X for your Gold Rage quest, you'd still have to kill 20 of X for the Gold Burst quest)
-would probably use a casting animation instead of a slashing one

I would add:
- obtainable at level 10, same as Gold Rage: choose your style from the beginning
- timer fully shared with Gold Rage to keep balance

And an idea to avoid kitting with it:
- reduced range: 15m seems enough
- 1 or 2 seconds with speed at 0 for the caster to avoid a "flee then shoot"; it wouldn't change much for casters as you can't really move while casting anyway

[LaughingOtter]

Just to confirm what Deth has said, Gold Burst has never been forgotten and is a constant and recurring subject of discussion on the design team.

The test version on Blight is pretty much identical to the description in the first post. It's also unusable, because it would pretty much allow dragons to solo kite any mob in the game.

We've looked at several different designs for it over the past year, and are looking at a new one now. We want to be sure that we wind up with something that works and that we aren't going to have to nerf in the first month. How we do that is still undecided.

One then we have decided, though, is that Gold Burst is a terrible name, and we really need to come up with a better one.

[Ebonfyre]

Well while you are thinking of renaming abilities i suggest

gold rage-hoard rage
silver strike-hoard strike

Afterall the abilities use hoard and not silver or gold. For gold burst, perhaps calling it hoard burn, or hoard burst.

[Galdethriel]

Just to confirm what Deth has said, Gold Burst has never been forgotten and is a constant and recurring subject of discussion on the design team.

The test version on Blight is pretty much identical to the description in the first post. It's also unusable, because it would pretty much allow dragons to solo kite any mob in the game.

We've looked at several different designs for it over the past year, and are looking at a new one now. We want to be sure that we wind up with something that works and that we aren't going to have to nerf in the first month. How we do that is still undecided.

One then we have decided, though, is that Gold Burst is a terrible name, and we really need to come up with a better one.

Whoo, its great to hear that! 83

Finally, draggie mages will be able to hold their heads high and proud, and waste just as much hoard as warriors! XD

I agree that a shared recycle would probably be a better idea.

~Galde

[Galdethriel]

Afterall the abilities use hoard and not silver or gold.

I don't really think hoard rage or hoard strike or such really have a great enough flourish to be a dragon's most powerful attack. :/ It's like calling... what was that epic spell called... was it Dark Cyclone, or some such? Well, it would be like renaming that "Wind Attack" or something. :O

I always kinda thought that the rage and strike was drawing power directly from a dragon's hoard which consists of gold and silver and gems and whatever nice things they find :P Not sure about the lore behind that though.

~Galde

[Firebrand]

The test version on Blight is pretty much identical to the description in the first post. It's also unusable, because it would pretty much allow dragons to solo kite any mob in the game.

Wouldn't a short range for the ability and a short mobility malus after using it avoid this problem?

[Deth]

I they they are trying to base it of of a primal bolt range and even if it has a short range, any thing beyond melee range, it would still let the dragon kite. Unless the cast time was so crazy that by the time you cast it the second time the mob could catch up with you which we players would not live with i am sure.

[Galdethriel]

Personally, I have no problem with it having exactly the same range as Gold Rage. It would be more fair that way, but in that case, the devs would also have to make sure it had the same wait as Gold Rage. If I'm hunting with my melee friend, he can usually hit an enemy 3 times every time I manage 1 spell. Gold Rage and Gold Burst shouldn't be like that methinks. :P

[Firebrand]

I wouldn't mind to have the same range as Gold Rage if Gold Burst had the same power.

A post casting root with a short range is also a solution. It could even be wrapped with lore:
Primal Burst (if you don't like Gold): "A powerful explosion of Primal efficient at short range (a few meters) which drains your Primal energy and exhausts you a short moment (speed/fly speed at 0 a few seconds)". Or something written better than this, but you get the idea.

To balance, you just have to do some math: select a range, know the average monsters speed then calculate the time they need to come at melee range (a few seconds).
This time can be use to set the post casting root (a root, not a stun... you still can prepare a regular attack). You may add 1 second to be sure that the monster will have enough time to hit. Kite wouldn't be possible this way, or much harder.
Of course, ability range would need to be short to not root the Dragon a long time.

[Takora Drakan]

Gold burst should then have a higher chance to break a root, stun and mezz, it is a devastateing attack after all that hits the monster with all your power.

But keeping it the same range as Gold Rage and make it a single target (with 3 hits like GR) will do the trick also I think. GR is powered by str and T&c and Gold Burst is powered then by power and primal. Shared timer sounds also very good to keep balance.

[AmonGwareth]

*looks around for the dead horse*

The design team has gone round and round on this issue and we continue to argue about it. The issue, to be honest, isn't with the Gold Burst (or whatever we finally call it) stats, but rather with Gold Rage.

[Ebonfyre]

I don't really think hoard rage or hoard strike or such really have a great enough flourish to be a dragon's most powerful attack. :/ It's like calling... what was that epic spell called... was it Dark Cyclone, or some such? Well, it would be like renaming that "Wind Attack" or something. :O

I always kinda thought that the rage and strike was drawing power directly from a dragon's hoard which consists of gold and silver and gems and whatever nice things they find :P Not sure about the lore behind that though.

~Galde

While the picture of a dragons hoard shows gold, lets face it the MAJORITY of a dragons hoard nowadays comes from the hoardables that are dropped. Of that a very small percentage are actually gold. Also I seriously doubt anyone is putting gold bars into their hoard either. If you want the name to sound like something epic call it dragons rage or dragons strike then. Or if you want call if Rage of the Dragon.