Crazy Gold Burst Thread (you have been warned)

[Creme]

I want one of two things:

A) I want the quest line to go to gold rage 10. make the last three quests hard, epic if you will.
Make gold rage 10 similar to gold rage 7 is now. I don't care what hte cost in hoard. I can make due. Maybe make it ancient, only...I know some flks won't like it but... well you get my drift.

B) Change timers slowly of most abilities and tweak them damage-wise to average a similar DPS to right now. If DPS is similar, I don't care about any single ability. I truly don't. That is the goal of this post. That is what many would like to see, I hope.

I agree 100% to point A. I truly, honestly cannot see the need for increasing the damage (even if increasing the delay/recycle) on GR to take it to 10. I think GR as it stands truly can not, and should not do more damage. As it is, I 1 shot almost every mob in game, if it's got a few straggling HP left or one of my GRs misses, then ravage or SS finishes it off.

I mentioned that it came up on the forums that GR might be overpowered. My mostly passionate dragon friend said although he hated to admit it, he felt that was a true statement.

I think if you weaken GR in any way (as everyone has become accustomed to it), there will be no end to the outcry and bad feelings. However, there is absolutely no need to make it do MORE damage. The T&C quests have done that already and my GRs do a couple hundred more damage each hit as it is; so effectively, by putting the T&C quests in game you HAVE already given us Gold Rage 10.

As for point B. My apologies SB, but I don't understand what you are suggesting. In plain terms, you lost me .

[LOVWYRM]

However, there is absolutely no need to make it do MORE damage. The T&C quests have done that already and my GRs do a couple hundred more damage each hit as it is; so effectively, by putting the T&C quests in game you HAVE already given us Gold Rage 10.

As for point B. My apologies SB, but I don't understand what you are suggesting. In plain terms, you lost me .

I agree to that.
(and Silver, pls explain)

[Zexoin]

A) I want the quest line to go to gold rage 10. make the last three quests hard, epic if you will.
Make gold rage 10 similar to gold rage 7 is now. I don't care what hte cost in hoard. I can make due. Maybe make it ancient, only...I know some flks won't like it but... well you get my drift.

Funny, I was chatting with a friend last night and he made the very same suggestion. Which I approve 100%, even though I hunt mostly with my Lunus alt (which is 100% melee and thus relies mostly on GR). GR is almost and instant win button. It doesn't need to be more powerful.

[Drevar]

He means to lower GR damage, but raise the DPS (whether with shorter timers or increased damage) on the other regular attacks so that in the same amount of time, say over a 1 minute timeframe, you do the same DPS as you do now. Basically spread the love around rather than have 95% of the effective damage done every 15 seconds with one ability.

As I suggested earlier, I would refactor the GR line and add 8-10. Make 9 equal to the current 7. 10 would be a true epic, more powerful than current 7 (equal to an 8 on the current line), but with disproportionately higher hoard cost than the advancement of 1-7 (like 4-5k hoard cost).

Those with low hoard would have the choice to go Epic level at the cost of burning big hoard, or stay with the current "modest" burn of 9 (current 7).

Hoard is like a 2nd adventure school for dragons. It is one of the basic reasons for living. Those who do not use it as much as possible are shortchanging themselves.

Drev

[Guaran]

I think I can understand what Ix(Silverblaze) is saying about GR. Currently it does decent dmg.

I think the dev's are toying with the idea of making it more epic, more costly, and longer delay. So that in the end it is less used. Think- Attack only used when battling Fafnir, Daknor, Reklar, Valkor, Gruk.

That's an interesting idea. but if it replaces the current GR it would ultimately be a huge nerf. Hence the suggestion to leave the existing version in, if plans are in place to upgrade it to more epic status use once every 10 minutes kinda thing. Or as they suggested, adjust the damage on the other abilities.

So you should re-work your suggestion to include all those facets. Simply stating GR is powerful enough now is insufficient. They may make it into something epic, but it isnt likely going to be a 15 second recycle anymore if that happens. So factor that in and come up with a combined suggestion encompassing all abilities. Make a suggestion on the other abilities assuming GR is removed.

[AmonGwareth]

Currently it does decent dmg.

First, decent damage? Okay, your definition is WAAAAAY off. It does amazing damage.

I think the dev's are toying with the idea of making it more epic, more costly, and longer delay. So that in the end it is less used. Think- Attack only used when battling Fafnir, Daknor, Reklar, Valkor, Gruk.

Less often does not mean only against mega-bosses. Less often means not every 15 seconds or more often than just about every other ability.

[Guaran]

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[Favoran]

I agree GR should not be more powerful. I love the ability and all, and there's really no reason to alter its strength if you modify the timer.

I've always wondered about that. Why does GR recycle faster than SS? XD

[LOVWYRM]

Can`t we agree on: Leave GR the way it is?
I`m a bit afraid, Amon will get some "too good" ideas here

Could be , I missed the point of this thread, but giving Helians a GB- why should GS of the Lunus be nerfed
The efficiency of both is only max
if you play true Lunus or Helian (TP/scales/x tals)
right?

But it would be interesting for me to know:
how many dragons play lunus/helian/hybrid ?
(I would have made a poll- but I do not know how to )

[Deth]

They are not looking at nerfing it. People want the ability to go up to 10 and they are looking at ways and if their are truly reasons to run it up to 10. Also there is some desire, I think to make other abilities more viable. Do you like being a 1 trick GR pony? With cry's that Hoard is hard to get (not that it matters if it is or not that is for another tread) would it not be nice to have non-hoard abilities to do a little more damage? Even if some of the damage comes from a hoard ability. Is it truely a nerf if damage is just moved from one ability to another?

On a side note as a bad damage tracker, and not being sure how long Windows 7 will let me into the game, it would be nice if someone would do a base line damage list for all the abilities so we all had a base line to work with. That way we are all working with the same numbers as well.

[Galdethriel]

Could be , I missed the point of this thread, but giving Helians a GB- why should GS of the Lunus be nerfed
The efficiency of both is only max
if you play true Lunus or Helian (TP/scales/x tals)
right?

I'm pretty sure this is the case, Lov. :/

My problem with nerfing Gold Rage is that it is, any way you look at it, the only area where a dragon can ever match up to a biped. Dragons can't tank, heal, cast, buff, gift, they can't even evade. They do damage, and Gold Rage is how they do it. Even saying that, it's only when they're really maxed-out, well-equipped melee dragons (which is theoretically cutting out 2/3 of the dragon population that can use it to it's full potential).

By even just lengthening the timer, it's pulling Gold Rage/Burst to be like a biped's ability. Then there is no way a dragon can ever, in any way, shape or form, match up. Bipeds can even run faster than any dragon can fly (there is something fundamentally wrong with that. o.o ).

So, does this mean we'll expect to see more and more abilities that can readily match that of a biped? Will I be able to heal, tank and evade? Will my spiked scales be as powerful as cloak of thorns? Will I be able to fly at past 150 speed? Somehow I think the devs will give me a firm 'No' on that.

So then, what measures will be taken to balance it out if they do decide to nerf Gold Rage?

Making the other abilities slightly more powerful is a nil point. I'd still need to see far more of them for that to be a fix, you know? :/

It's been said once, it's been said again, but Ancient Classes... they would be a nice addition to downsize the gulf. I'll keep that to the appropriate threads, though.

No offence intended to any mainly-Biped players, but I do think there's an issue and it's being sidestepped around quite a bit. :/

~Galde

[LOVWYRM]

Thank you Deth and Galde- I see clearer now
I think somewhere in this thread I lost connection^^
And Galde- as usual I agree with you

[Drevar]

Gald, you lost the discussion as soon as you said the word "biped". :/
If you can't tank, heal, cast or buff then you are doing something majorly wrong.

Drev

[LaughingOtter]

We're talking about dragons here, not bipeds. Please keep the thread on topic and free of the biped vs. dragon arguments.

[Favoran]

But it would be interesting for me to know:
how many dragons play lunus/helian/hybrid ?

My main is a Lunus-turned-spellcaster, with TPs spread awkwardly between TaC, Primal, and Power. Plus combat scales and xtals for both sides. I would sure like a Gold Rage-esque attack that was tailored towards more balanced players... of course, I'm a spellcaster at heart, so I'd be happy with just GB.

[Dragonboy]

He means to lower GR damage, but raise the DPS (whether with shorter timers or increased damage) on the other regular attacks so that in the same amount of time, say over a 1 minute timeframe, you do the same DPS as you do now. Basically spread the love around rather than have 95% of the effective damage done every 15 seconds with one ability.

In theory that is cool, but against some mobs beetles for example after a few seconds "Hardened Scales" activates. Gold Rage as it is now is the difference between a fast fight or a long boring fight. Sure its almost a 1 hit kill button, but hey have you seen our size? Big mussles to power that strike.
Personally I think no new GR is needed. For the spellcasting dragons among us a GB IS needed. Although I do hope it is an ability like Dragons Reach and not a spell you can scribe.

[Galdethriel]

Gald, you lost the discussion as soon as you said the word "biped". :/

We're talking about dragons here, not bipeds. Please keep the thread on topic and free of the biped vs. dragon arguments.

Okay, okay, but look at this:

We will do whatever it takes to make it balanced and interesting.

Dragons and bipeds right there.

The miff isn't with dragon warriors versus dragon casters, how could it be? Dragon warriors are known to have more killing power because they have Gold Rage: Gold Burst would be giving casters an equivalent ability so they can match up. Link the two so it's one or the other, and of course warriors will do diddly-squat with Gold Burst because of their low Primal score, and you have a balance. Choose one or the other: the one you're good at, or the one you're rubbish at.

So then, saying that, it has to be a dragon-biped 'issue' Amon brought up: it's the only one that actually makes sense.

If you can't tank, heal, cast or buff then you are doing something majorly wrong.

My point is the little guys can do it about a jillion times better. -.- When I say that, I'm implying that I should be able to like a biped can. If the devs want bipeds to be able to perform just as well as dragons, does that mean dragons will perform just as well as bipeds? --that was my point.

~Galde

[Creme]

Okay, okay, but look at this:

We will do whatever it takes to make it balanced and interesting.

Dragons and bipeds right there.

~Galde

I think you're missing the point. Balance does not necessarily mean balance between bipeds and dragons. Balance means simply that: is the class balanced for the environment?

[Galdethriel]

If that's the case, I could probably name a few classes that could do with a nerf. >.>;

I won't though, because I don't want any classes to be nerfed

And I hate that everyone jumps to my throat the moment I say 'biped'. Always assume it's dragon VERSUS biped as opposed to the 'dragon compared with biped' as actually intended. >.>;

~Galde

[Zexoin]

People, don't forget that GR VII is a lvl 70 ability. Most of you are playing lvl 100 (or close) character ; indeed, it is a good ability that doesn't require much balencing (except maybe the timer which is a bit too short) at lvl 100. Which is why, in my opinion, extending the quests to GR X, with GR X equivalent to GR VII, so the power of that attack increases gradualy, is the best option.

In addition, if the power of GR VII (or X, depends if the quests are extended or not) is reduced, the other abilities, like it was suggested earlier, would need to have their damage output increased aswell. Or make totally new abilities, with new debuffs for the mob or penalties for the player. Something that would actually need some thinking and tactic ; anything to make a fight more interesting than just a click-win button.