New player with a suggestion

[momodig]

I'm new.... so just take my suggestion with a grain of salt. I hope I don't get flamed... but before I make the suggestion, I want to say, I'm enjoying this game very much -- wish I had found this game a lot earlier.

Anyway onto my suggestion.

I was talking with a few players.... and they stated that the economy was poor. I first hand cannot say it is, because I've just started... but why not have it so equipment (armor, swords, ect) have a durability (health). That way there can be a steady demand for crafters? It's a beautiful crafting system, why not use it to the full potential. Allow players to repair items, but the max durability gets lower each time, eventually getting to zero... then the player would need to purchase a replacement.... this would keep the economy flowing. Again, I'm sure the Devs have though of this, and they have their reasons for not implementing item wear/tear.

[velveeta]

its been discussed but its been a while.....
i am of 2 minds about this.....it has never made sense not to have a durability on weapons, tools, and armour to me (assuming for discussion's sake that it is even possible, i seem to remember that it may not be...), especially since we can make those items anyway - maybe even a new skewl [handyman? ], or attach it to tinkerer.........
however, that said - wow's durability system is outrageous. coming up against a big mob or boss, and you end up dying when your stuff loses too much durability.

IF it is possible, i would only be for a really good durability on stuff - wow's version of normal wear and tear is a little too tough for my taste.

[momodig]

I never played WOW.

I guess if one is worried, carry a back-up weapon? Anyway it's just a suggestion... still having a blast with the game either way.

[Wirevix]

I wouldn't really mind having to repair things, but I disagree with the idea of an item ever hitting a 0 durability. Some equipment, such as my Simulated Tempered Chest Scale, could not just be purchased again--you can only make one of them per character, and so if that one was destroyed, you just lost a one-of-a-kind (per character) item.

[Shian]

Decay, while it may seem like a good idea, is really more of a hinderance to gameplay than it is a help.

When I was in SWG, it was a pain to carry around two sets of armor, two weapons, two sets of clothing etc. in case one broke. You had less room for loot.

Now, imagine putting something like that in this late in the game. Players that have played for 5 years already have a full vault and home. Causing them to now make space for double thier gear. Double all crafting gear, all tools, all armors. Try to fit that somewhere in your vault or home now.

That being said, we do have decay in the game. All blighted items need a repair kit.

[Vaz]

The crafting system and economy will always be broken to some extent without durability. But for reasons given above, it can't be added to Istaria.

[StalePopcorn]

Are those reasons really enough to not introduce something like that? Like V said, it doesn't have to be onerous i.e. 10 swings with the sword and it is broken. It could just apply a minor penalty (5%? 10%? 15%?) and make it so any <insert school> trainer could repair for a set fee, allowing players to under-cut the Empire price. That way you wouldn't need to carry two sets of kit around with you, your existing kit just wouldn't work as well.

That way if you connect at strange times when not many people are on, or are in a "quiet" area, then you can still get items repaired at the (more expensive) rate.

I would like this system if:
a) you had to get items repaired by the school that can create them (weapons by blacksmith/weaponsmith, etc)
b) unique/attuned items didn't need to be repaired

Would need UI changes at least. The skill used to create the item could be used to repair the item as well. Perhaps you could purchase "repair kits" as well?

[lino]

I have played games with and without decay and I really don't see any good side to decay. It is simple a time (run back to the right vendor/machine/whatever) and mony sink.
I don't see how a mandatory time sink could make this game more attractive to anyone, so you'd need in-field-repairs which leads us to some kind of repair kits (like dye kits). Those surely would be traded alot in the beginning, but sooner or later most old players would probably have a silo full off them while new players would either get the craft school(s) to make them or use coin to buy them - and that coin has to come from somewhere, so new players will save on other things like potions, food, construction or portal fees. Armorers and weaponsmiths would see an improvement, alchemists, confectioners and builders would sell less.
Improving the economy is probably best done by getting more new players and for that you need to add more "exciting" elements to the game, not time and money sinks.

[Dragonboy]

In my honest opinion.
Some if not most people already have to spend weeks gathering all the technique components needed to finish their armor / scale sets. Only to have them seriously damaged by a lucky blow from an enemy.
Then all it comes down to that if:
1. No repair is possible you spend all your ingame time gathering components to re-craft your stuff. This would cause massive annoyance and people leaving I guess especially now that Nadia has been removed.
2. Repair is only possible at an NPC it might be a nice money sink, but it would only ruin the economy further since most players have to run to and from the repair man to spend their coin on repairs.
3. Repair with repair kits or player with sufficient skill would be the best thing, maybe in combination with the repair NPC (who gives quests in exchange for attuned repair kits after completion).

Also what is important is how the durability is implemented:
1. Full strength until a separate “Item health” bar is depleted.
2. Item primary bonus decreases at the same rate as the separate “Item health” bar.
3. All items bonus stats decrease at the same rate as the separate “Item health” bar (with for example sockets being unusable from 50%).

Another thing that fills my mind when I think about the subject is what will happen to the item once it has been completely destroyed (or damaged so much it is unusable until repaired).
1. Will you be able to repair it completely.
2.Will it receive a permanent penalty on all bonus stats including sockets.
In case of a permanent penalty…
a. Will there be a max of penalties after which no further penalties are added to the item.
b. Will the item be permanently destroyed after for example 5 permanent penalties.

Those are some things that need to be considered IF such a thing should be implemented.

My personal preference would be (if decay was to be implemented):
1. Damaged items remain at full strength until “destroyed”.
2. Damaged items repaired without reduced stats penalty or reduced “health bar” by repairkit/player or NPC.
3. Destroyed items receive a permanent reduced stats of 10% per penalty for 5 times as wel as reduced “health bar” until finally destroyed completely. (Just mention a “0/5 before destruction” in the info screen).

Don’t flame me for mentioning that items are allowed to be destroyed since it has a durability or health bar which you can see declining so if you repair early you have no problems.

[Sigi]

I think having an "economy" is highly overrated and not really necessary for a good playing experience. Besides it will probably develop like Lino describes (#8).
So why waste precious dev time to put a nuisance in game?

[StalePopcorn]

Lino - the money sink I think is good, but the time sink I can see, as you point out, being a pain. To be honest, I haven't played many games with item decay, so don't have much experience there. Does sound like it could be quite annoying though, particularly for existing players that aren't used to it.

Drago - more good points Sounds like it would be quite painful to implement, and not something that could be "bolted on". I was imagining something simple that could be done to implement item decay/repair, but sounds like it would be way more pain than benefit.

[Greenclaw1]

Maybe add new types of weapons or armour as rare or semi rare drop on boss mobs for example that can't be worn until a crafter enhances it and becomes an uber item towards a certain damage type that has a decay system attached to it until destroyed ? The dev team could always add things to stimulate more of an economy with crafters rather than tampering with the current item database with item decay.

[momodig]

Anyhow, again I just want to enforce... it's a wonderful crafting system, why not make a execellent economy..

"I think having an "economy" is highly overrated and not really necessary for a good playing experience."

That point there just make me cringe slightly sorry. No economy... the only thing left that doesn't leave it a single player game, is all the others around you. I think an economy is very important... and if crafting was fully used to it's ability that alone would attract people. Some people enjoy crafting, looting, then haggling with real characters for prices...

Here a crafter can craft a longsword +4 (say that was the best in the game). After every level 100 character had sword, that crafter is pretty much useless... but if you had repair or replace damage weapons, the market and demand for a crafter would be very much alive.

Again great game, I'm in know way shooting it down.

Again I really appreciate you folk letting a noob bring up a topic like this without getting flamed.

[Takora Drakan]

There is item decay in Vanguard, and I it was nothing more than a serious annoyance to players and crafters. Because the economy not really benefits from it, and I doubt that the Istarian economy would. Running to a merchant to fix your epic things is just silly.

[AmonGwareth]

This topic has been hashed and rehashed a hundred times. I encourage players to use search to view some old discussions on it.

Do a search for "item decay" and you'll find LOTS Of threads on the economy, some of which even has our responses.

There are many positives and negatives about item decay, but it is not a system that could easily be implemented in Istaria and even if it was it might not be well-liked by some because it is not just change, but BIG change.

One thing you might also consider as part of any decay system is having items that are teched become attuned on equip. This way there isn't the passing down of items anymore. That would probably stimulate an economy even more than item decay in the short term.

[StalePopcorn]

<snip>

One thing you might also consider as part of any decay system is having items that are teched become attuned on equip. This way there isn't the passing down of items anymore. That would probably stimulate an economy even more than item decay in the short term.

Hmmmmm now there's an evil thought... So as soon as a crafter techs/blights something *whammo* the item is attuned on next usage and can only be deconned/sold to PBs (PB=PawnBroker)? Would certainly stop hand-me-downs immediately and make sure people have to keep sourcing equipment as they level up. Could be annoying for guildies who try and keep kit for lower-level guildies, but it sure would provide some economy stimulus.

I really don't see a bad sad to this suggestion... constant requirement for new/better kit, remove the "second-hand" market altogether which would get more people wanting equipment.

If this was instituted though a system to "place orders" would be a God-send. Lots more requirement for crafting would require lots more requests and money changing hands. I always wondered if this *had* to be in-game. Could a VI-controlled auction website system be out of the question? "auctions.istaria.com" that could take orders, Escrow payment, enable chat between players, and most importantly link to in-game inventories and cash! Writing this in ASP.NET with a couple of webservices connecting to back-end systems would be a world easier than attempting to do this with the Istaria client! The Devs have enough to do already, and we want the whip cracked to deliver content

Web services are already used extensively by the Istaria Launcher, so the infrastructure is there to expose additional functionality...

1. View existing item listings
2. Create/update/delete item listings
3. Submit items for payment (from your vault, they are temporarily removed from your vault)
4. Cancel items for payment (changed your mind, got it wrong, etc - they are moved back to your vault)
4. Approve payment (money paid to crafter, items appear in your vault)
5. Reject payment (with comment as to why)

An "Auction Consigner" could be an in-game biote to handle transactions and hold items. This would be a hidden connie that no-one could actually see/use, but would then fit with the item mechanics of the game i.e. buying and selling, returning items to vault, etc.

[Creme]

I really don't see a bad sad to this suggestion... constant requirement for new/better kit, remove the "second-hand" market altogether which would get more people wanting equipment.

I see several bad sides to this.

1. Stack space. Players would either have to delete/pawn their lower end items, or use up valuable vault stack and/or inventory. If they wanted to keep on hand different sets for leveling up different classes (AND cargo gear as well), I can see that our stack space requirements would increase dramatically. We would basically be eliminating the usefulness of plot storage structures (houses, guildhouses) as a structure to hold spare sets of gear.

2. Teching lower tier items. This would fall off as players wouldn't feel it was worth it to tech lower tier goods if it winds up becoming force attuned.

That's all I can think of now, but I'm sure others can come up with more.

[StalePopcorn]

I see several bad sides to this.

1. Stack space. Players would either have to delete/pawn their lower end items, or use up valuable vault stack and/or inventory. If they wanted to keep on hand different sets for leveling up different classes (AND cargo gear as well), I can see that our stack space requirements would increase dramatically. We would basically be eliminating the usefulness of plot storage structures (houses, guildhouses) as a structure to hold spare sets of gear.

I think people already struggle with storage anyway. Spare sets of gear are kept when people multi-class, and usually you upgrade your gear as you level up in that school. It is common for people to have one full set of gear per school.

I, for example, keep a Spiritist/Cleric/Reaver set (though Cleric/Reaver share) at the highest level I can wear, plus multiple sets of craft armour depending on what I am grinding at that time. I don't see the difference that keeping attuned/non-attuned items would bring. If it makes people spring-clean their storage, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Less load on the databases in the back-end

Can you give me an example where storing attuned kit would be different to non-attuned? got a dreadful cold at the moment, not thinking things through clearly

2. Teching lower tier items. This would fall off as players wouldn't feel it was worth it to tech lower tier goods if it winds up becoming force attuned.

That's all I can think of now, but I'm sure others can come up with more.

Teching lower-tier items is barely worth it anyway, considering the advantages you get with T1/T2 teched kit. IMHO it's not until T3 that the effects are "worth it", with T2 being of marginal usefulness. Your mileage may vary, and it may be more important to newer players who are just starting up. Regardless, if people want T1/T2 teched gear, then that can help boost the economy for "new" players as well. I am not on at peak times, so may not be seeing many requests for T1/T2 kit at those times.

Selling second-hand goods isn't really a big revenue generator. More cash is made (at the moment) by selling resources like harvested goodies and consumables, rather than selling an old set of armour that someone has no more use for.

[Shian]

Selling second-hand goods isn't really a big revenue generator. More cash is made (at the moment) by selling resources like harvested goodies and consumables, rather than selling an old set of armour that someone has no more use for.

QFE. I have three extra sets of T5 scales that no one wants to buy because either 1. they''d want to make it themselves or 2. they'd rather have slightly different techs. Even hand-me-downs get replaced by "better" scales even if that means the difference between putting TNC or health on combat scales.

[Sigi]

Can you give me an example where storing attuned kit would be different to non-attuned? got a dreadful cold at the moment, not thinking things through clearly



You can't store attuned things at your plot, you have to keep it in your backpack or in your vault.