Constant Nerfing

[Zexoin]

I'm sure reducing the max death point length to 24 hours would fix that problem

[Steelclaw]

Thanks, Amon.

Your response suggests that the reduction in efficacy to Primal Rebirth is an undesired one made to accommodate a restriction in the server. That response also suggests that the reduction is temporary and will be removed once that restriction has been lifted.

That's perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

[Dakoren Ironhand]

I'm sure reducing the max death point length to 24 hours would fix that problem

Good point!

[Pharaxes]

I'm not as long here as many others and usually I'm never on blight. Still I want to write down some thoughts.

Maybe I have missunderstand that, but it seems to me that the two types of fighters - spellcasters and meleefighters - have less differences with the time, like less differences between Helians and Lunus' in abilities and such.

Having Primal Rebirth not remove a full DP anymore seems to me like something to make dragons less strong as in let the bipeds raise their power some. Recent changes makes me believe, that players should be encouraged not to play dragons anymore.

Until I read this thread I didn't knew about the Lasting Embers-thing but I think now I really can put it away. Maybe we just have to wait for a crystal from a blighted enemy that gives us a better option in crystals. Or let us stack some crystals that aren't stackable atm.

And when you lower the time on the superior rez I think biped-players will complain about that as well.

[lightning claw]

Ok time to reply,

To be 100% honest i agree with this topic and lets go one step farther, the New quest is mostly requires bipeds stuff . Take a look at the supply quest there are only 2 things in that hole quest a dragon can make. (Blast V and a Mirth marble armor chest scale) yet its supply's for the empire, so are the deves implying that dragons are not part of the empire ?

Dragons should not be Half as dependent as they are on the naka-duskael as we are Dragons. We are the first defenders of this rock, bipeds came after the dragon's where all ready old . For Drulkar sakes we need a biped to get one of our Dragon ability's not to mention the quests are kinda aimed toured the lesser races.

yes the devs do aid dragons every now and again as pointed out by Xoshara,

but as a Proud lunus making things 100% slash resistant and then not having an Expert blighted lesser type claw form in the game so we can make claws of Descent conversion is a bit cruel. Bipeds can change there damage type at a wim if something dose not go there way. Dragons although Vastly superior in Meelay are now being confronted with a dwelling usefulness in the world.

to Rebalanced this Growing issue the devs must do 1 of 2 things
1. Create Damage conversion crystals.
2. give us a expert lesser gem blighted claw form ,


There is a third but that's way to much to ask of them at this point after all lunus i may be but dumb i am not Coughs( Give dragons elemental schools )Cough *clears thought

[Zexoin]

Let's beat the dead horse a little more :'D

[AmonGwareth]

There is a third but that's way to much to ask of them at this point after all lunus i may be but dumb i am not Coughs( Give dragons elemental schools )Cough *clears thought

*cough* No *cough*

[lightning claw]

*cough* No *cough*

*gives hachie eyes at Amon *
awwwwwwww why not
Joking

[Akuluxtraxas]

The claw form would please me immensely. I can say this we will be extremely biped reliant for many new areas of content..even drain bolt HEAVILY requires biped only materials and items.

The slash immunity is really only an issue because of two major flaws in the reasoning. First all our melee attacks are slash naturally. and 2 we cannot easily swap to other damage types without losing a majority of our damage unless we loot very rare drops that not only take away use of weapon crystals (a HUGE loss) but also may have other debillitating stats such as -Str or some such. These claws are RARE and getting one with very good mods and conversion is a tiny chance.

A formula would ease the rarity issue but not the crystal issue. im sorry but until you give dragons actual spell casting prowess that matches the mobs difficulty we either MUST give up our crystals and/or resort to spells or be made viable by bipeds.

Its not so easy to just change your damage/try something else for a class that has very limited versatility.

My biped can do it easy..in fact i can do it without ever swapping to schools i dont like. I give up nothing and i have tools to adjust and work around anything you can create. no dragon can do that as effectively.

Primal spells have always been poor in damage,had long recycles and without any tools like multicast,perfect spell, snares and stuns we cannot effectively immobilize and control mobs ability to reach us.

Bipeds are insanely powerful because they have so many tools that empower them and create the ability to dictate a mobs abilities to engage. Its clear Dragons wont get such tools so immunities are crippling to us. If it was as easy as swap to another damage type and roll nobody would care but losing 80% or more of our damage is not exactly a feasible method of combat.

Its obvious your targeting Gold rage. Its as plain as day that its been a target for a while but if it was removed things would go south real fast.

So now its just uimmunity tactics to nullify its power. If Dragons had been balanced and scaled well from the past this wouldnt exist as an issue but to just say try something else is not only pretty hard to do but shows the general attitude towards it as very poor.

give me tools to use other damage types and adjust to mobs and id love the opportunity. Tell me to just deal with it without those tools makes me question the road this game is going

[Silverblaze]

I don't like to post anymore.

I say things I regret or things that are rude, instead I'll just be honest.

/rant on

STOP MAKING THESE THINGS BIPEDS VERSUS DRAGONS!

I keep hearing from dragons: bipeds are over pwoered, and from bipeds...dragons are over powered...no...neitehr are...

Work together...thats the name of the game in a Massively Multiple Online Role Playing Game.

they are about equal, yeah dragons do it all in about one school with a lot of quests, there are things bipeds are better at and things dragons are better at.

The game has two very uinque facets. You can go enjoy the other.

These nerfs aren't bad most aren't nerfs.

I highly support a blighted claw form, let that be known before I continue chastising the ranters.

If the devs wanted to target gold rage they could have nerfed it real bad anytime they wanted. Challenge does not equal nerf.

Dragons needing bipeds for things...this is no different than asking a blacksmith to make alchemy craft materials in a generic quest. No different at all. A biped without alchemist can't make suspensions any better than a dragon.

It isn't really targeting dragons, it's making people work together.

If all quests were soloable, it wouldnt be an MMO.

I love my dragon I really do. I love my bipeds too, enjoy both very rich parts of Istaria.

That quest having just gotten the requisition form myself also asks for things bipeds cannot make.

Last I checked even in cannon and lore dragons (including Lunus) work together to stop the Withered Aegis. They all joined the Empire. This means they all agreed to work together right?

This should/might even help answer the problems roleplayers have with the reliance on bipeds for some quests.

Breath of Flame Burst still allows area DoT's...I'd prefer it work for all breaths too, but....I don't really use any breath but BOFB anyhow.

/rant off

Good to see the devs intend on returning Primal Rebirth to it's former glory. YAY!

I'll go back to my hole now. I've no doubt offended some people and as always I'll apologize...I meant no harm only to state my opinions in a factual manner.

Please give that post some thought before flaming or throwing rocks, slurs or other insults, back because I've made you angry or opposed you.

But by all means respond I love to hear everyones thoguhts

Debating is such fun.

[Galdethriel]

Maybe I have missunderstand that, but it seems to me that the two types of fighters - spellcasters and meleefighters - have less differences with the time, like less differences between Helians and Lunus' in abilities and such.

Well I think the idea behind it was that it's more sort of a philosophy rather than a class. If you think about it, the old Lunus = melee and Helian = mage notion is a bit daft anyway.

'Hey, you want to guide bipeds! And you prefer to fight with your claws? Preposterous! You're completely contradicting yourself, you idiot!' (Because liking bipeds and fighting with claws are clearly opposites XD )

Not making fun of anyone, just poking fun at the idea. ^.^

Recent changes makes me believe, that players should be encouraged not to play dragons anymore.

Well, there are good changes too you know, and the primal change is, as Amon said, temporary. :P But dragons are in a situation where they can't really win (at the moment): bipeds are strong because they can multiclass, but in order to make dragons different their multiclassing was taken away... dragons are still very, very good as a singular class, the problem is that with dragons there are really only 3 options: mage, warrior, or mage-warrior. D: What we really need is more content that allows us to individualise... their must be another way to shape your dragon to a class while not actually multiclassing. But those things've been brought up before and I don't think anyone would appreciate it if I just brought it up again. XD

In fact, I've probably got a bit of a scolding due. *listens* XD

And when you lower the time on the superior rez I think biped-players will complain about that as well.

Maybe. Just let them know that it's only temporary.

I'm just repeating myself.. but I still feel that the rezzes are unfairly proportioned. Get at level 90+ after an epic quest, with a large hoard cost and an hour recycle. Sure, it removes a death point, but do does a much, much more easily attained biped superior rez. Considering that it's the only rez dragons can or will ever be able to get, I think that's a fair bit disbalanced. Some areas of this game are insistant that dragons cannot be useful. They just can't. Why? I don't know. It's a 'just because' thing. More and more biped-requiring things are piled on, but dragons are never needed because obviously they must all suck and be absolutely useless-- WAIT, save for gold rage and donkeydom. And now that Gold rage is taking a hit, I guess it's just donkey-dragons that remain useful to any aspect of the game.

I keep blabbering on and on about it, but it's been said before a bazillion times, and not a single good answer has been offered so far as I've seen.

My biped character Yanuru, though I do like her, let's be honest...exists to do the things I can't do with my dragon Galde. There is no better purpose: I want to be useful, I want to help. Since Galde will never be able to actually do anything...

[Pharaxes]

I dunno about the biped-quests, but is there any that requires them to let a dragon make anything?

Would be unfair if bipeds could make anything on their own but not we.

[peladon]

[quote=Silverblaze;224291]
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I highly support a blighted claw form, let that be known before I continue chastising the ranters.
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[quote]

Elder and wise. My words are... but let that be as it must.

Old I am. There are those older, aye. And there are many that find my nature, aye and my word also... no delight.

And that is their right, and that is no thing any need care of save... save those that choose.

But there is a tale told in a tide long past, in a place of Mirrors, and it was the first tale told in that place where many tales had been told before. And mayhap I shall offer it, and if no ear hears it... why that is the nature of many tales. And that is also a choosing. And I will tell it shorter than it is told in another place, that I offend as little as possible.

It seems.... long and long ago this was.... there was a gnome. And the gnome... well, it was a healer, of sorts at least....

And oft and many would it heal, of those that had no coin. And those that had coin, those that be rich among the healers, they would decaim him fool and unwise, that the poor would come to value healing less. And thus... they refused him entry to the places that healing be learned. And, lacking such knowing, there were many that it could not heal. And some... and some of those, they died.

And of a time and a time... the healer gnome did come to see too many die. And it came to fear, for it hath knowing that in time, it would come to some ill or some wound or simply some age... and it would pass.

And fearing this, and being of those that seek knowing, it did take it to strange places.... and it sought strange knowing. And in those places, far in the howling ice and the burning fire, did Mardrin come to a place. And in that place did lurk a cunning artificer. And this artificer had a companion. And the artificer's companion was not as others, for it was all of metal. And the metal, it walked! And not only walked, for it would hew wood and it would draw water and even, of a fashion, it would talk! And thus, it seemed, it had a form of living to it.

And Mardrin was intrigued by this. And for many tides it did seek to stay with the artificer. And when it did leave that place... behind it walked a companion. And that companion felt no cold nor heeded any wound, and it seemed, in some fashion, bound to Mardrin.

And Mardrin came again to the places of people.

And it set itself forth again as a healer. And many and many came to its healing, for it took no coin, and none it turned away.

Though some still... some yet came not back. and the people held naught against it, for the mightiest healers may not heal all.

And of a time, it seemed to those of the healers that Mardrin might take all their custom and all their coin might never come. And they gathered those of the night, that have no respect for Law and set them to a task. And taking that task, those of the night came to Mardrin's place of being and they entered, that Mardrin might not leave whole.

And they came not forth.

And Mardrin spoke no word to those that keep the Law, but the ones of the night he never spoke of either. And the people were pleased, that those with coin were discomfited, for they had often said that those with coin had no need or fear of the Law save to hold those without in check.

And thus it was.

And for many tides this carried on. Many and many and many....... indeed, so many, that there were none who did not remember Mardrin being there when they were young, aye, and their granfers speaking of him being there also.

And this was a strange thing.

And there be one among those that wondered, and that one was a young healer. Its name be lost, for it was not one of great note, though it sought to be so. And it did come to think that Mardrin had strange gifts or powers or potions that had mastered life itself. And it decided that it would have those potions for itself.'

And thus it set to disguise itself as one of those poor and it took him to a place of those that be diseased, for it thought itself brave indeed. And it set him there till it was taken with a palsy most dire and then it did take him to the place of Mardrin and sought healing, claiming no coin to its name and a feeble mother to care for.

And Mardrin did take him to its place of healing.

And there, it seemed, did Mardrin have those that sought healing, and among them were a number of those that haunted the streets, but were not even of an age that would seek schooling were their fate better.

And the young healer was amazed that Mardrin did waste his time and talent on such ones.

And Mardrin did bid each one there to quaff a sweet tasting potion it offered, to prepare for that which must be. And all drank. But the young healer did pour secretly the potion to a bottle it had brought with it, to examine later. And as those others drank, so did they come to a more quiet state. and they sat, as though waiting.

And Mardrin did take him and set him before the metal companion. And he did call a strange calling. And a thing did come.

For a strange smoke issued from the metal companion, and it fell to the ground. And the smoke set if forth. and it seemed to take the form of an old wizened figure.

And Maldrin did speak to the figure and it did say ' It be time and thy time be done'.

And like a flash of fire, the smoke figure did gther itself and it did pour over the young healer. And the young healer did find itself not able to move but a single muscle.

And Maldrin did speak and it did say:

' Ye sought to learn that I know. Let it be so.'

And Maldrin did take upon it the armour of the metal thing, and it did stand full caparisoned. And the healer moved not a muscle, for it could not. And the metal thing that was Maldrin did stand forth. And it did come to...........'

It did come to the childer.

And it took the first to it, and it did......

It did take the... the youngling.... and it did embrace it most close.'

And it did embrace it ever closer.... and closer.................... and full soon, the blood burst forth. And it burst.... and it fell upon the metal thing... and it painted it full red... and then... the red was gone. And the metal seemed to drink it full. And the metal thing did tke the next child.

And as each was... embraced.

The blood was taken and the metal was red and the red was gone.

And when all the childer were.... were...... when the thing was done..... It did take it to the grown one that stood there. And looking, the young healer did know that one, fot it was a mighty guild leader of the city.

And the metal thing did take the guild leader by the hand, and a thing did come.

For the lines of age did pass, and the muscles jaded with age did seem to take new strength and the hair of the guild master did tke darker hue.

And the guild leader did take him to a mirror, and it did look, and it did let fall a large pouch that spilled gold.

And it did leave.

And the metal one did stand. And it did speak. And it said:

' This be a thing. If there be no life, then my companion will pass. And if it passes, then there is no power to it.

And thus it must hold life.

While I am in it... then there is life. But when I am not... there must be life.

And ye do live.

And yet... ye do live in that feeble frame.

NO MORE.'

And the healer felt the smoke thing gather the healer's spirit. And it did lift the spirit from the healer's frame... and it did set it about the healer's spirit and carry it to the metal thing.

And into the metal thing it did take the healer. And there already the healer did find Mardrin. And Mardrin was strong.........

And the healer was cast to slumber.

And then...... The healer woke.

And it woke, and felt itself free. And it sought to turn and run for the door. And as it raised its foot.........

It clanked.

And as it raised its arm.....

The sound of metal grating came to ears that felt most strange.

And it heard a laugh.

And it heard Mardrin. And Mardrin said:

" If the metal does not drink, ye die.
If ye obey me not, ye die."

And the healer..... the city grieved. That the healer never recovered from its illness. And the city was most pleased at it's properity. For it had far fewer of those that scavenge the streets than others about it.

And all were happy ever after. Most all... most....'

And this be the tale, or a part of the tale, of Mardrin.

And the tale was done. For a tale it was, and only a tale. Only a tale...................

And why do I speak these words here? For it be a tale of many things. Of a city that found greater might, greater healing, greater... good. And for sure, what little price there was? That mayhap some few... some very few... took them to some other place? Were not... not seen... again? And what if it were _not_ so? What if.. and surely small.. some small ill was needed for that good?

There is the Blight. And not all times is it green and sere. And not all times is in this Deadland or that. But if it must be fought... then surely it is enough to fight it in others, aye? Not our own great selves. And if we must taste some small part of ill to fight it better? Surely that is....

What it is.

I knew a one once. And he kept a great weapon to his hand. Not to use.. for he would never use it. It bore a demon, do ye see.. and ever its black voice whispered to be fed. And he was a great one, set guardian of a mighty city, to defend it. And he would never use it. Never and never and never and never... save at great peril.

And one day, a Foe came upon the city. And he was called, and he took his blade, and a rage came upon him. And when the rage was passed, he took him home. And he went to set the blade aside. And where it hung upon his wall, there were his wife and his childer, and many were their wounds, and much was the blood, and they were... were gone.

And the blade whispered... ' The Foe will come again...'.

And he hung the blade upon the wall. And the dark ones laughed long, and they laughed loud.

It is the Blight. And it is... a choosing.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save The Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Akuluxtraxas]

The issue with forced grouping is just this..the forced grouping is ONE way.

Dragons cannot kill the slash immune mods like bioscholars without blighted claws. any biped easily can. Its not supposed to be dragon vs biped but you cannot say reliance and working together are the objective when only one side is forced into this role.

no biped ever loses 80% damage due to a single immunity if they are paralell strength to an ancient (heavy multiclassed in simple terms) I have no issue with them being able to solo and do it all until folks say **** like its made to enhance grouping and push it. its BS. want to encourage grouping? GIVE IT REWARDS. make it WORTH it. grouping has been so severaly penalized for so long mostly due to abusive mass farming and overpowered abilities.

and btw im one who LOVES to group i raid in WoW to get group content because Istaria has none that gives any feasible reward which makes most prefer soloing.

What i dont like is being told x is to encourage grouping when it only plays on the one side. you can say what you want but bipeds do not need to group unless they want too and Dragons with some changes cannot fight these without either a claw that converts or biped assistance.

in every other game there is interdependence but in a balanced form. there is no balance in this game and absolutly no interdependence on that even scale. the game has clearly went in the biped direction and i support both sides. I dont play my biped much but that doesnt mean i dont support them in changes and content.

My complaint is with such immunities a class with minimal versatility must rely on everyone else to carry them. this is against the lore for one and second is bound to cause bitterness. this game has always been popular because of Dragons.. not bipeds and anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves. I dont expect multiclassing but **** dont make it so i cant fight my own battles.

Folks have always been a bit edgy on the one way dependence and this content greatly increases that dependence. my biggest question is why? is this some scheme to try converting dragons over? cause if so it will fail miserably. Is it to avoid fixing dragons and working on them they way it should have been done long ago? Or is it simply back to Gold rage..an ability that is highly known to be disliked at the dev level and actually Silverblaze no developrers cant just nerf things however they want without repercussions. They can physically do it yes but money is the fuel for the ship and that money comes from us dragons more than anything in Istaria.

Nobody is asking for anything to be nerfed so i dont believe its a dragon vs biped but when your comparing dependence it is kind of neccesary to look at both sides. Right now this game is in a time that means a lot. with Vista and the dungeon and huge changes it is a time many players may try this again. players will choose their way to play and its important to remember you wont change others thoughts often. Point in creating interdependence is good. creating one sided dependence has never been a wise strategy.

I just think its pretty low to cripple a class this way..a way we cannot adjust to without taking significant steps or needing others when we in turn cannot contribute in return. I think that this forced one way dependence is a nasty flaw in development in horizons and my rants may effect nothing and get ignored by some and read by others but at least i know i was honest and said what i feel for better or worse. Take it for what its worth which is always in the eye of the beholder

[Silverblaze]

I hear value in your words.

I do however have two counter arguements to debate.

1. Reklar: Bipeds cannot kill him without dragons, period.

2. I can kill a bioscholar without a damage transferring weapon/spell while using my dragon only and no biped buffs or potions.

Is it easy? Nope. Its likely the hardest thing in game for me. Perhaps a bit much? Maybe.

I'll note if I get adds while doing it it may not be possible. I am certain with no damage channging spell or weapon and no bufffs beyond my own coudl I handle two of them.

A single bioscholar is indeed possible.

I am in one way slightly galled that people would "force" a lack of change or change on behalf of the developers (by threatenin to quit)...on the other hand I am pleased we have enough people who like the game to make a stand.

I do think only the vocal minority uses these forums however and would like to encourage many more to join and talk about this sort of thing.

Also I'll agree with Steelclaw and a few other posters: the fashion in which people ask about changes or ask for changes/fixes/nerfs/boons to a class...needs to be well thought out and structured.

I won't say anyone whines. Thats rude. I will say thee are better ways to express ones self so as not to wind up in the rants section. (be taken more seriously in other words.)

I've said most of what I can say on the matter.

[Silverblaze]

one final matter

I managed to hurt the bioscholar with slash just fine....dwarven toughness makes all melee damage = to 0.

Dispell it or mezz it till it wears off.

[Shian]

But must it be that our kind must themselves step into the shadows to balance their very nature? For the Blight is a thing we seek to remove from the very land, and yet it seems the Blight is a thing to be preserved to retain the effectiveness of which ye speak.
Must it be that our kind must seek and find these things ye speak of ere they may stand shoulder and wing, foot and claw... such poor, poor claws... with those others that defend the land?

Yes. This is a great irony that befalls us all. If one does not keep the blight at bay, if one allows the anchors to live long enough, the resources get blighted.

What comes from those blighted resources? The Essence of Blight. From that, Ambrosia. A powerful food that outshines the effieciency of any food the gifted can craft. What a fun irony.

[Takora Drakan]

1. Reklar: Bipeds cannot kill him without dragons, period.

Wrong. When Reklar came first out and the chamber with the dragon that had the primal boon spell wasnt finished, people attacked and killed him anyway. It was a battle over several hours (people dealed only 1-2 on him), but they kept throwing themselves against reklar regardless of the dps. In the end Reklar was slain without the Primal Boon. So Reklar can be slayed without dragons, but it would be very tedious.

[LOVWYRM]

Maybe its just evolution

some creatures have developed immunity against our weapons-thats the way evolution works
we are old- very old-
the bipeds are younger races
maybe, they are able to accomodate themselfes to the changing winds and worlds- better than we can

maybe GR is simply old-fashioned
maybe our magic is antiquated
maybe our moral and philosophy too
maybe we are a fading species

[lightning claw]

maybe we are a fading species

Over my dead Vengeance chest scale