Dralnok's Doom suggestions

[Creme]

The items I've found that weren't tradeable were the Myloc trophies, Ganesh's Journal Pages and the Brachina Beetle Gland.

Any others are likely quest items or quest rewards.

Anything you apply a tech kit to now becomes attuned. This includes the new dragon techs.

For example: Dragons can get the fishing tech kit; what are they going to do with an attuned fishing pole? However, there might be a level 100 gatherer that's under level 90 adventurer that would be happy to purchase said fishing pole. As it stands, any dragon that gets this tech can't trade it (which is fine); however they can't trade the pole after they apply the technique to it.

Now in the case of the dragon techs (rending, etc.--I can't remember the exact names of them). Say a dragon makes a t2 kit (this is great, btw) and bestows it upon a guildmate dragon. Said dragon outgrows this...what does he do? He can't pass it on to another guild dragon so he's stuck with it or he has to decon it, hoard it (haven't checked to see if it's hoardable), or delete it. He can't trade it, he can't stick it on a connie for another dragon to possibly purchase--it's mostly a useless item now.

Now take a level 100 dragon. He wants to make 3 different configurations of scales using the same kit. Now he's got 3 different variations of the same scale all attuned, meaning it's now inventory/vault only. Add that to his collection of masks/costumes(not attuned, but usually vaulted)/his attuned fishing pole/novians/slice of Millie's pie/emblems---and we have EVEN MORE emblems now with all the different titles...the list of items that can no longer be offloaded to his plot/lair storage just gets bigger and bigger and is whittling away at his personal stack limit.

[AmonGwareth]

Anything you apply a tech kit to now becomes attuned. This includes the new dragon techs.

For example: Dragons can get the fishing tech kit; what are they going to do with an attuned fishing pole? However, there might be a level 100 gatherer that's under level 90 adventurer that would be happy to purchase said fishing pole. As it stands, any dragon that gets this tech can't trade it (which is fine); however they can't trade the pole after they apply the technique to it.

Its a quest reward. The player that wants that tech can go do the quest themselves. As for Dragons, it has a sizeable coin and hoard value if you wish to sell or hoard it.

Now in the case of the dragon techs (rending, etc.--I can't remember the exact names of them). Say a dragon makes a t2 kit (this is great, btw) and bestows it upon a guildmate dragon. Said dragon outgrows this...what does he do? He can't pass it on to another guild dragon so he's stuck with it or he has to decon it, hoard it (haven't checked to see if it's hoardable), or delete it. He can't trade it, he can't stick it on a connie for another dragon to possibly purchase--it's mostly a useless item now.

When he outgrows it he can sell it to a pawnbroker or he can delete it. And if someone else wants a scale with that tech then they can buy one for themselves.

EDIT: My apologies, I misspoke. The player can delete the item since attuned items cannot be sold to vendors.

Now take a level 100 dragon. He wants to make 3 different configurations of scales using the same kit. Now he's got 3 different variations of the same scale all attuned, meaning it's now inventory/vault only. Add that to his collection of masks/costumes(not attuned, but usually vaulted)/his attuned fishing pole/novians/slice of Millie's pie/emblems---and we have EVEN MORE emblems now with all the different titles...the list of items that can no longer be offloaded to his plot/lair storage just gets bigger and bigger and is whittling away at his personal stack limit.

Yea, lots of tough decisions now huh? You're going to have to decide what you want to store the most and maybe make room by getting rid of other things.

[Deth]

Now in the case of the dragon techs (rending, etc.--I can't remember the exact names of them). Say a dragon makes a t2 kit (this is great, btw) and bestows it upon a guildmate dragon. Said dragon outgrows this...what does he do? He can't pass it on to another guild dragon so he's stuck with it or he has to decon it, hoard it (haven't checked to see if it's hoardable), or delete it. He can't trade it, he can't stick it on a connie for another dragon to possibly purchase--it's mostly a useless item now.

This is to help the economy I would assume. Which there are a lot of people on one side or the other off. This is better I say then Item wear.

[starlight]

A attuned tech item cant be sold so really i see no point in having the items attuned in the first place same for the trophies if the quest i remember right the ones already in inventory don't count anyway towards a newly taken quest so what the point of having attuned hoardables that are just going to be deleted by a biped that loots them unless they already HAVE the quest to start with. So really i see no logic behind this matter in any way aside from just more junk for bipeds who are not on that specific quest to delete said items since they cant be sold so they are truelly worthless

[Knossos]

I believe there are quests pre Dralnok's Doom that require dropped items which only drop if the player has the quest - can't the new quests be similarly configured?

Knossos

[C`gan]

So, what's being stated is that some of the new forms and techs are attuned upon loot, the products they make are attuned upon creation and/or use, and this is working as intended?

Just wanting to make sure I'm following along correctly.

[Xarog]

Yea, lots of tough decisions now huh? You're going to have to decide what you want to store the most and maybe make room by getting rid of other things.

My space right now is precious enough as it is. Why would I want to be annoyed with new crud I now have to make space for, when it isn't especially useful to me, nor valuable to anyone else?

Doesn't it strike you as a little counter-productive?

[AmonGwareth]

My space right now is precious enough as it is. Why would I want to be annoyed with new crud I now have to make space for, when it isn't especially useful to me, nor valuable to anyone else?

Doesn't it strike you as a little counter-productive?

Nope, if it isn't useful to you then toss it out. But it might be useful to someone else and they will get to make a choice to make space for it or not. Its all about choices and what to keep or what not to keep.

[Romirez]

Nope, if it isn't useful to you then toss it out. But it might be useful to someone else and they will get to make a choice to make space for it or not. Its all about choices and what to keep or what not to keep.

that is not a very solid argument. you basically are saying it's fine when dragons get junk they don't need, but when bipeds need them, and don't get them, they cannot buy it from the dragons. the Istarian economy needs all the help it can get, and this kind of help isn't....helping.

[AmonGwareth]

Disagree all you like. The system is staying as it is.

[Guaran]

So, what's being stated is that some of the new forms and techs are attuned upon loot, the products they make are attuned upon creation and/or use, and this is working as intended?

Just wanting to make sure I'm following along correctly.

None of the dragon techs are attuned upon loot... You can craft them and give away/sell the drag on tech as well. Once it is applied to an item, that item is attuned to the user. Once they outgrow or no longer need it they can just hoard or delete it. Not really getting the basis of this argument, other than perhaps the quest which currently give the reward for the fishing tech, come in an alternate version which would apply to tool claws for dragons. + ingenuity maybe, since that skill is I believe what dragons fish with.

[Xarog]

Nope, if it isn't useful to you then toss it out. But it might be useful to someone else and they will get to make a choice to make space for it or not. Its all about choices and what to keep or what not to keep.

I think, ideally, that updates should be as useful to as many players as possible. For those who can't currently use an item, it should be possible to trade/give the item to someone who can.

In my case, I have about 5 gatherer levels on my biped. I also have the fishing tech. There's no way that I could use the tech meaningfully right now. So if I want to ever use a t5 fishing rod with a nice fishing tech, I have to store the item in my vault for the foreseeable future. That's one less stack space that I have to work with. So instead of the fishing tech being a nice new addition to the game, I become annoyed because now there's one extra thing I can't really afford to delete.

Ideally, I should be able to trade the tech away to someone who can use it now, with the prospect of buying it again at a later stage when I actually can make use of it. Ideally, I should be able to do the quest again with my dragon, and then transfer the item to my biped.

I don't understand why this principle isn't applied to updates. I get the feeling that the devs are afraid that these new additions to the game will be somehow exploited or something. That concern is valid (if it is indeed a concern), but imo that's not reason enough to place restrictions on the few things players still want to trade for.

And since it's a thread about suggestions for the new dungeon : can Delgarath please get a Vault NPC so we can access our vaults without having to port elsewhere?

(And as a total side-note on the vault stacks issue : It would be much easier for everyone if there were new NPCs which could *buy* any form or tech at a set rate (say, 500c per tier), and then hold that form or tech perpetually until someone else buys it (at, say, 1s per tier). That way, players could sell off all their forms and techs to NPCs which would hold several forms as one stack, making the load on the shard easier. It would also make it much much easier for players to find techs without having to deal with consigners and hoping that someone has decided to float the form they want on a connie for a week. The NPC would basically function as a hybrid vielo/connie and I can't think of a single reason that anyone would complain about its presence.)

[AmonGwareth]

In my case, I have about 5 gatherer levels on my biped. I also have the fishing tech. There's no way that I could use the tech meaningfully right now. So if I want to ever use a t5 fishing rod with a nice fishing tech, I have to store the item in my vault for the foreseeable future. That's one less stack space that I have to work with. So instead of the fishing tech being a nice new addition to the game, I become annoyed because now there's one extra thing I can't really afford to delete.

Ideally, I should be able to trade the tech away to someone who can use it now, with the prospect of buying it again at a later stage when I actually can make use of it. Ideally, I should be able to do the quest again with my dragon, and then transfer the item to my biped.

It is a quest reward. You did the quest and got the item as a reward. Why would it be fair for you to do the quest and be able to give the item away? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. If someone else wants that fishing tech they can do the quest.

I don't understand why this principle isn't applied to updates. I get the feeling that the devs are afraid that these new additions to the game will be somehow exploited or something. That concern is valid (if it is indeed a concern), but imo that's not reason enough to place restrictions on the few things players still want to trade for.

Any item that is quested for is going to be attuned. That is how we are approaching things. And teched items are going to become attuned when equipped, that is also the way things are going.

And since it's a thread about suggestions for the new dungeon : can Delgarath please get a Vault NPC so we can access our vaults without having to port elsewhere?

Nope, sorry. Delgarath is not a full imperial town, but a simple outpost. I am sure somebody could be persuaded to build a vault in a nearby town such as Morning Light or Mithril's Anvil.

(And as a total side-note on the vault stacks issue : It would be much easier for everyone if there were new NPCs which could *buy* any form or tech at a set rate (say, 500c per tier), and then hold that form or tech perpetually until someone else buys it (at, say, 1s per tier). That way, players could sell off all their forms and techs to NPCs which would hold several forms as one stack, making the load on the shard easier. It would also make it much much easier for players to find techs without having to deal with consigners and hoping that someone has decided to float the form they want on a connie for a week. The NPC would basically function as a hybrid vielo/connie and I can't think of a single reason that anyone would complain about its presence.)

A NPC who holds items indefinitely. That sounds like vault storage to me. And would most certainly be abused. Sorry, no can do.

[Akrion]

Just for the sake of putting it out there, I'm going to add my voice to the 'I disagree with many of these changes' pool of people.

Edit: Though I disagree more with this "It doesn't matter if you think otherwise is better, it's going to happen anyway" attitude becasue that's exactly what destroyed SWG. I sure hope I don't lose yet /another/ amazing RP community, as they're getting very difficult to find in the MMO world nowadays.

[Hraefn]

Any item that is quested for is going to be attuned. That is how we are approaching things. And teched items are going to become attuned when equipped, that is also the way things are going.

I apologize in advance, but the bit in bold text makes me a little sick.

That will ruin the old tradition of handing down scales that made the community all the nicer.

It also seems to make plots utterly useless. Anything that's attuned can't be kept anywhere other than a character's vault/inventory. With as many scale sets I have, I can only imagine what an older biped character will do with to solve the problems that attuning teched items will cause. I've only a single biped character and I can nearly fill a t6 lair hall (with a stack of 360) with her teched items.

/whine

[Raptress]

And teched items are going to become attuned when equipped, that is also the way things are going.

So.. is this going to affect every teched item there is or only ones that use new techs, like the recently released tech kits? This is a statement I feel seriously needs clarification of the crystal variety.

And if it is all teched items.. you're likely going to have a lot of protest, and I don't see it as a terribly positive step forward, considering the community as it is now.

[AmonGwareth]

New techs. Tech kits primarily. For example, the ones you get in Dralnok's Doom.

[Raptress]

New techs. Tech kits primarily. For example, the ones you get in Dralnok's Doom.

Alright. Heh. You scared a few of us real good right there~. xD

[Xarog]

It is a quest reward. You did the quest and got the item as a reward. Why would it be fair for you to do the quest and be able to give the item away? Sorry, that makes no sense to me. If someone else wants that fishing tech they can do the quest.

It's my quest reward. I did the quest, so why shouldn't I be able to do whatever I want with the reward?

Quests and rewards for them are a staple of fiction going back hundreds of years. It would be a bit pointless for a king to offer a king's ransom to the knight who saved his daughter from a dragon IF that knight couldn't actually spend his newfound riches.

And in the case of it being a special item - well if I think that the tech should be bequeathed to a friend who makes all my food for me, well why shouldn't I be afforded that opportunity?

Any item that is quested for is going to be attuned. That is how we are approaching things. And teched items are going to become attuned when equipped, that is also the way things are going.

Then you are going in a direction which makes the game less appealing to me.

I didn't do the quest for the ingame, reward, btw. If I knew what the reward was, and that I'd have to deal with a new item in my vault, I would have waited on the quest until such a time as I could make use of the item. As a player, I want to be able to enjoy the game without feeling like I'm constantly forced to make decisions which force some kind of trade-off.

Nope, sorry. Delgarath is not a full imperial town, but a simple outpost. I am sure somebody could be persuaded to build a vault in a nearby town such as Morning Light or Mithril's Anvil.

I very much doubt it. It's much much easier and closer to port out of Delgarath than it is to run to either of those settlements.

If you really want to call it an "outpost", fine. But the new client is extremely laggy and it makes going places a frustrating experience. I'm not expecting miracles, but surely it's worth it to give players a bit of a break if it doesn't fundamentally change the way the game works? Surely there's a case to be made for making Delgarath a less laggy experience for everyone?

A NPC who holds items indefinitely. That sounds like vault storage to me. And would most certainly be abused. Sorry, no can do.

It's more like a vielo whom the players supply. Prices would be fixed and supply would come solely from the players.

As it is, I delete all formulas I cannot instantly scribe precisely because I don't have space to store them. I know other people might be looking for them, but honestly it's too much of a hassle to go looking for them. And I'm quite sure that there are many other players in a similar situation. So even though there is a demand for an item, no trading is occurring because of the way storage works.

Players would only sell things they are prepared to lose because the NPC would be public (like the vault NPCs or pawnbrokers in racial towns).

And since the primary reason for limiting stacks (as far as I am aware) in vaults is due to database constraints, such a change would actually make the database more effecient since it would encourage players to pool ALL the formulas they have onto ONE stack per formula shard-wide. And please note that I suggested that it only apply to formulas (and tech formulas, come to think of it), both these items are useless in bulk - a player can only use one copy per character. Thus, it's really not open to abuse.

Is it really that much to ask that the game promote an environment which encourages everyone to support and assist each other?

[Ry]

For the quests that give attuned items that can only be used by certain schools or races(dragon/biped), would it be possible to show what the reward is before accepting the quest. That way if for example you were a dragon you would probably decide not to do the quest that gives a fishing pole tech. Likewise if you were not ready to use such a tech as a biped you might decide to do the quest at a later date.