Crafting Mastery Quests

[AmonGwareth]

We've been discussing this internally for a while now and I wanted to get player comments as well. The proposal we're considering:

1. Removing Dragon Crafting Mastery Quests (and passive abilities)
2. Increasing Dragon Crafting Skills by +1 per level each to compensate

The benefits to this are:

1. Fewer grinding quests. Since these "quests" really don't contain much if any lore or story, they are simply pure grind.

2. Helps clean the database up a little on our end (removal of 8 passive abilities on every dragon).

What do folks think about this?

[velveeta]

well, if the only bennie to doing the passive quests is to get a +1 in whatever skill, i see no problem with this.
(i am assuming this is the case, otherwise the great and mighty amon would have mentioned it!! )

[Loc]

I don't see a problem as long as the points match up. The only other problem is I've already done them ;-)

[Aywren]

I haven't gotten into the dragon mastery quests for crafting yet, so I don't know what it all entails. However, anything that can simplify and streamline the character development process and database (as long as it's compensated in another way) is a good thing to me. Sometimes less is more.

I'll hold my tongue beyond those comments to let more experienced Dragons do the talking, however!

[StalePopcorn]

Anything that reduces grind is "a good thing" IMHO

Though my hatchie has done hardly any so can't really comment from experience of the craft master quests... but seems to make sense if draggies don't miss out on skill increases.

[StalePopcorn]

I don't see a problem as long as the points match up. The only other problem is I've already done them ;-)

(OT) chalk that one up to experience Loc - like "Salt Rock is Not a Bonus"!

Does that mean Ingenuity for draggies crafters will be 11 points per level instead of 10?

[Raptress]

Sounds like a fine idea to me, just so long as we're not losing any points (I don't think we are, but I'm tired so I don't trust myself x3). The only quests I'll miss are those from the essence trainers, they were actually quite amusing sometimes. I wouldn't mind seeing the characters/dialogue of the two essence-related trainers reused in some way. Am I correct in assuming that the Dimensional Pocket quests are not included in this change?

[velveeta]

i wouldn't count dim pocket as a passive skill, rapt, so my thoughts are no....and those quests are usually a grinding thing - mostly delivery service, if i remember them correctly....

[rizo/nawkia]

Ill agree with this 100%

[awdz]

If I understand this right, potential downsides include:
- for those who like to be led through crafting levels by being told what to craft, now they'll have to figure out what to craft, and
- it will take more crafting to get the same experience without the quest bonuses.

With hatchling Awdzy as my alt, I don't have any issue with this but I could see how others might. I have not heard any naysayers, though.

[LOVWYRM]

I liked those quests, and found them to be good training - as far as I remember^^

But if it helps database- well-do what there is to be done

[AguaRush]

I think i would have to vote no with this. my reasons

1 ) when i did the quests they helped me A LOT not only just getting xp but with finding resorces and how to make materials.

2) they are really doing no harm and are very helpful.. they give a path to go on.

3 ) this would remove so many quests!!

[Ahael]

I'm a bit torn on this one... In general, reducing grind is good. However, maybe dragon trainers could instruct players a bit more, to guide players, if these quests are removed?

[Gimbold]

What do folks think about this?

My thoughts are,
if it's not broke don't fix it!

there is enough to fix without causing more problems

[Holth]

I am all for cleaning up the database. That said, I would like to add my 2 coppers here. Dragons are different than bipeds in so many ways. Crafting, for most dragons, is an afterthought or no thought at all. A large percentage of folks that play dragons have no idea that crafting levels will give them points to their basic stats (strength, power, focus, dexterity) that they cannot get by just adventure levels. They get their crafting to 25 or 30 so they can do RoP and never take it further. Then (ususlly sometime after they make lvl 100 adventurer) they find out that they could be so much stronger an adventurer if they had progressed their crafting as well. And they are upset.

So, please, please, give the dragon crafters a reason to craft. If you take out the mastery quests, put in something that will give them the knowledge that crafting is useful. Or put in something they can build/make that gives dragons an incentive to craft.

Thanks,
Holth, Ancient of Order

[StalePopcorn]

Could the quests stay, with perhaps some sort of item/bonus instead? Appropriate crystal for crafting? Other? I agree with the point of not reducing quests (the more the merrier for those that like doing them) and this would still help remove the abilities.

[Tcei]

As long as we're getting the points we need to be where we should I vote yes.

The amount of exp you get off these after say lvl 20ish is laughable, completing all the quest nets you maybe 1/2-3/4 a lvl. And in the time it takes to get all the quest done you prolly can get twice the exp grinding.

Really the only things I'll miss are the fight between the ess trainers and the fact that it was a break from the endless, go to node X, then Shop Y, then silo Z, once full procede to Shop Q. Repeat 20mil times -_-. I'd love to see some craft quest put in that actualy gave good exp for the time you spent doing them.

[velveeta]

remember, folks, that amon sez the passive skill quests!! that still leaves the other crafting quests, which mostly call for the same resources that the passives do........
there will still be craft quests to do, just not that many......

and are you saying that peeps are now so unfriendly that no one will offer a hatchie the location of some resource nodes????? i find that hard to believe!!

still in favor of this, as long as the bennies equal out!

[Raptress]

...Dragons are different than bipeds in so many ways. Crafting, for most dragons, is an afterthought or no thought at all. A large percentage of folks that play dragons have no idea that crafting levels will give them points to their basic stats (strength, power, focus, dexterity) that they cannot get by just adventure levels. ... So, please, please, give the dragon crafters a reason to craft. If you take out the mastery quests, put in something that will give them the knowledge that crafting is useful. Or put in something they can build/make that gives dragons an incentive to craft.

I'm a bit confused about these points. Even besides the fact that I wouldn't consider the masteries an incentive to craft (for me, they started becoming more annoyance than anything after maybe 50), what incentive is it that dragons lack and bipeds have? Dragons already have the same incentive to craft as bipeds do, don't they? The ability to make one's own gear, spells, and housing?

If anything, bipeds have even less incentive than dragons to craft, because dragons have a requirement for RoP. Also, the raising of stats only occurs if the stat gained from the craft school is higher than the adventure school's gain, so if the dragon in question is already 100 DRAG, they aren't gaining any stats from raising DCRA to 100. That's different for bipeds, who have craft schools that offer 9 or 10 points in a stat, but DCRA is just 5 across the board.

Anyway, back to the topic..

The only thing these quests may have offered other than the passive skill boost and some modicum of experience that is more or less negligible since the quests only occurred every ten levels, is the knowledge of where resources are. However the only reason that happens is because the trainer makes you go out and look for the stuff. Most likely, the player will be asking other players where the resources are for the quest anyway. Also, in my experience, what the trainers ask for is almost never what you should actually be crafting to level at the level the quests are given.

Players in Istaria learn early on that asking other players is a primary source of information. This generally starts happening at level 1 DCRA, where I still see players ask how they use their crafting abilities despite the Skalkaar tutorial. They get helped, often by multiple people, and they learn to ask when they need information. Players also generally found out about the crafting masteries themselves by asking other players.

So, in reality, the trainers aren't doing much training anyway. It's the asking of other players that does. Whether or not you have a quest asking for 100 slate slabs, you're probably still going to find it when you ask about how to raise your craft level faster when it slows down around 20-25 and you're still doing sandstone.

As for repurposing the trainers and changing their rewards, this might be an idea. Not every ten levels though, and certainly not if the trainers are just going to keep the droll dialogue that most of them have. The reason they exist right now is to offer dragons a way to get that +10 skill per level. If that's just put into the levelling process anyway, there's no need for them to exist. Maybe giving each one a quest at DCRA 100 might be plausible, quests that ask for T6 materials (these are "masteries", yes?), are all moderately difficult, and if you complete them all, you get an emblem ("Master Dragon Crafter"?)

In short, I'm still for the proposition made in the first post and if the trainers are going to be doing anything, I'd rather see them have proper quests.

[Ahael]

As for repurposing the trainers and changing their rewards, this might be an idea. ... Maybe giving each one a quest at DCRA 100 might be plausible, quests that ask for T6 materials (these are "masteries", yes?), are all moderately difficult, and if you complete them all, you get an emblem ("Master Dragon Crafter"?)

In short, I'm still for the proposition made in the first post and if the trainers are going to be doing anything, I'd rather see them have proper quests.

I was thinking something like that too, after I made my 1st post about this...

Trainers should offer, well, training and master quests are a terrific idea IMHO. And, much like I said earlier, dragon trainers should instruct players a bit more, to guide players, in addition to the quests. Then again, this all is more work for the devs...