Thoughts RE: Furries

[Fridlekh]

Humans immediately place things they see (including other people) into various categories based on stereotypical precepts. Humans have also used animals as de-facto examples of stereotypes for at least as long as there has been written language.

Who hasn't been asked as a child: "If you could be any animal, what animal would you be, and why?" Apart from the interesting bit that you almost never hear a child say "I'd like to be a human, because they have the ability to use tools, create new things, and have developed ways of storing knowledge about how to survive separate from genes." Is the other interesting bit that indicates that, at least as children, we all would like to be more animal than human ... able to swim better, see better, run faster, fly, etc.

This, I think, is the very heart of the matter. The symbolism of animals and their stereotypical properties are pervasive in nearly every culture on the planet. Used as examples for how to live (or not to live), used to evoke response in advertisements, used in entertainment and religion... probably the only thing more ingrained into our collective consciousness than our place in and relationship with the rest of the animals on our world, is our preoccupation with procreation.

Being a family friendly forum, I'll not ponder publicly on the predictable pre-disposition of people's propensity for producing ... less socially accepted forms of art.

[velveeta]

well, i tend to focus on the worst parts of every situation - so when you say furries, i tend to think of the sexual aspect of the word.
(sidetrack: a very interesting discussion of a similiar conflict with word interpretation - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Astriall...The-****-Thing)

it is one thing to rationalize nature by using nature. it is another thing to pervert animal nature for human animal very non-survival-related desires.

yeap i love my cats. yeap i appreciate thier connection to the ancient egyptian nature goddess bast (and i appreciate the irony that she is the goddess of fun and sex as well). if you ask me now, even at my advanced age, what animal i want to be, it certainly wouldn't be human (a rich old lady's pampered black cat with green eyes, sleeping on silk and eating from cut xstal, with a maid and a butler and a trust fund.....).

does not mean the thought of doing human things with my felines ever crosses my mind....which is good for them, cause there are many very human things i would dearly love to do to a few peeps....

once again, if i have misread the intent of this post, i hardily apologise....

[Fridlekh]

I see a pretty big difference between being attracted to animals and being attracted to humanoids. Unless you're in the camp that says that drive should only ever be expressed in the action of procreation, then the core of the issue with the morality of attraction is sentience; whether or not consent is possible by virtue of intelligence and understanding of the situation. Not that any of that really matters, since it's all imaginary anyway. Or if not strictly imaginary, completely hypothetical. [alien life, bio-engineering, what have you]

Aside from that, the furry fandom is no more focused on sexuality than any other subset of society (not to say that it doesn't exist) and the biggest problem with the fandom is that it's too inclusive. Most of the members of the fandom are more of less normal people you never hear about because they don't jump in front of the tabloid press to brag about what a freak they are.

[walkerglassmire]

Most of the members of the fandom are more of less normal people you never hear about because they don't jump in front of the tabloid press to brag about what a freak they are.

And this to me, boils down to another "issue" that goes along with this. That people fear that which they do not understand. People don't understand how some people could like anthromorphs. Even like them in a non-family friendly board way. And because they do not understand them, they must be freaks, sickos or whatever other label you want to give them, not fellow human beings that happen to have a different opinion about things. You should have seen the hullabaloo on the news here a few months back when the Furry Convention came to town. It was like all the news outlets became tabloid rags, looking for the seedy underbelly of the convention, doing non-family friendly board things. (Thus I avoid using specific words here, that the news happily spewed forth, and splashed across the screen for everyone to see).

Now, this might just be an American thing, but, I have a sneaking suspicion that this level of intolerance (for lack of a better word) is worldwide, and not just directed at the mostly harmless fur lovers (because, we're ALL Mostly Harmless, even the "normal" ones).

Now, I will caveat this with, I'm not a furry myself, but at the same time, I completely respect their opinion, and, so long as they do not try to force it upon me, more power to them.

[Dhalin]

The Fur Fandom tends to attract a lot of... people who have been rejected by more "normal" areas of society.

The reason being, is that people who are in the Fur Fandom tend to realize that they are usually looked at as being "freaks", and they know that they usually have to hide what they are, and tell only their closest friends. Society in general seems to hate the Fur Fandom even worse than they hate homosexuals.

Given that information, people in the Fandom are usually more accepting of people who aren't accepted elsewhere, and people with mental disorders are very common in the Fandom, which might or might not taint its "image" to the rest of society.

As to the sexuality in the Fandom, I think that many furries are... shall we say... a lot less inhibited than most people. Outside of the fandom, in "Normal" society, people discuss their sexual activity and display such wants and needs a lot less. They have many inhibitions, and sex is almost treated as this dark, evil thing that must be done in total secrecy and to merely mention it in public, especially near any pre-18 child, is horribly wrong.

In the Fandom, however, people tend to be Much more open about their sexuality, preferences, etc. In a large portion of the Fandom, people engage in different types of fantasies with each other (many of which involve sexual artwork, stories, roleplay, Second Life, etc) openly (well, openly within the Fandom).

Whether or not it is "wrong" for them to do so, is really not our say.

What goes on outside of our own knowledge is really none of our business, unless it somehow affects us. Two "furries" roleplaying, sharing artwork, etc, isn't hurting us until we "accidentally" see it happening.

I tend to take a 'whatever they want to do, that's their decision' approach and just shrug it off. We might find it weird, strange, we might not understand it, but hey... its their choice.

[Umbriel]

Being a 'fur' myself i have to say that while yes the sexual aspect is very much what the public sees, it is definitely not exclusively what being a fur is about. i think everyone has dreams of being something theyre not, human or otherwise, furs just take a different approach. i cant state specifically what the differences are between furs and non-furs, but theyre pretty much like any other random group, like the sci-fi/geek group with some of us getting dressed up, and others preferring not to. furs just happen to be vilified because by and large, joe public doesnt understand.

ive been to a couple of the New Zealand furry gatherings, everyone is nice, bar a few of the younger ones, and everyone does their best to make it a good time. when we have minors joining us we do our best to watch out for them. i was sad not to make this years con, there were quite a few minors and several of them brought chaperones. i also missed out on archery and the high wire course. of course it wasnt all that important given me and hubby (who i met through the fandom) were staying at home to look after our baby boy. if we can afford it, next year we'll all go, me, hubby and bubby. there are several furs who are part of our family and i dont think thatll ever change.

oh, and when hubby was a kid and his kindy teacher asked him what he wanted to be, he replied "An apple tree"

[awdz]

For those (like me) who had not really heard the term before...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=furries

[Raeshlavik]

I've sort of orbited around the event horizon of furry fandom for years, and back in the late 80's/early 90's the whole thing was fairly innocuous. It was later on, I'd say 1997-ish, that it started to get out of control...

My introduction to 'furry' was via my SCA and RenFaire hobbies back about 1989 - Well, I say hobby, but not many hobbies include two week long stints of living in a pavilion (two story tent) in a field in Pennsylvania... I mean, "furry" gets a bad rap for its 'adult' content, but few have ever experienced the 'after party' at a RenFaire.

Anyways, several rather well known 'furry' artists were also big in the SCA, and I ran a bit of a side project of promoting SCA artisans on the RenFaire circuit, so I started carrying some 'furry' art, PG fantasy themed stuff mind you, and getting to know the fandom.

The stuff sold like hotcackes. Before the stigma of 'furry' happened it was amazing how many people connected with some sort of inner-animal. I started handling commission orders for a few artists where people wanted something custom, and to make this easier I had to log on to "FurryMuck" which was basically the fandom equivalent of the telephone...

It was on FurryMuck that I ran into a good friend of mine, who was also promoting artists, but he was doing it at various scifi conventions. We sort of teamed up and I ended up going to my first 'furry' convention in 1996.

The fandom-specific conventions are a bit weird for me, so I only went to a few; ConFurence a few times, Conifur Northwest twice, and Anthrocon a couple of times.

But, history aside, there was a distinct change in the players between the 20th and 21st centuries... In the 90's the fandom was mostly about comics and art - sure, a lot of it was 'adult', but not horribly shocking. From about 1997-on it just kept getting more and more 'fringe' - I got out of the pool as it were in 2001, mostly because everyone I knew from 'the before times' had also moved on.

From my perspective the whole "rise and fall of furry" was brought on by the acceptance of the fandom in general. The old-guard as it were tended to be folks who we're 'okay' with just about anything as long as it didn't hurt anyone. And the fandom itself, being what it was, was very accepting of anyone who didn't point and laugh.

Over time the acceptance and low bar of entry of the fandom allowed it to become an umbrella for a lot of other activities - that and the typical human preoccupation with procreation as mentioned above, and this eventually led to it's death... In my opinion at any rate.

But, overall there isn't anything 'wrong' with furry, no more so than trekkies or comic book fans. The issue most folks have, I would assume, center squarely on the vilification the media has done on its quest for sensational news.

[Fridlekh]

For those (like me) who had not really heard the term before...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=furries

Urban dictionary? well, at least it's not Something Awful or Encyclopedia Dramatica. Something slightly more in-depth with references and stuff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_Fandom

[awdz]

Urban dictionary? well, at least it's not Something Awful or Encyclopedia Dramatica. Something slightly more in-depth with references and stuff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_Fandom

Thank you for clarifying. I kind of scratched my head on reading that, thinking the Muppets really should have been cited as an early example (Sesame Street's Kermit the Frog, Big Bird, etc.), but I guess since the Muppets are not limited to animals they cover too broad a scope to be just furries. Same with Winnie the Pooh stuff too, eh?

Does having had an extensive stuffed animal collection as a girl, complete with pretending they had grand adventures while talking and socializing between species, mean I have a furry heart?

[Sounjah]

Does having had an extensive stuffed animal collection as a girl, complete with pretending they had grand adventures while talking and socializing between species, mean I have a furry heart?

Nope, I think that would be normal and healthy

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Alot of people are prob not even aware but discovery channel does have a program out that explains humans connection with nature.

They do a good job explaining various things, From people feeling they are x animal trapped in a human body(they even interview the leopord man ) to furries. Very interesting vid and VERY educating to those who dont understand. I just do not remember the title of the vid, it just happened to air one night and me and my family watched it.