Dragon Ability feedback

[Silverblaze]

I knew there would be a cloak nerf when I read this.

Spiked Scales has just become much more valuable and useful.

Dunno whether to cheer or cry...


Also I recall an ability called Allowance of Power. I would encourage devs to use this again if a new dragon ability is in the works at all.

[dorrin]

first off, in response to what creme just said... i heard about the CoT nerf last night but don't read the forums much anymore. i read that line earlier today and instantly thought of the CoT nerf as well.

ON TOPIC:

staggering howl - used at the end of a fight to speed up a kill only. i know what this does, but it kindof contradicts what you want for spiked scales.. the less often a mob hits you, the less damage it takes.

gale .. hardly use. even with decent primal it's not worth it.

i would like to see (as others have said) a reduced timer, and i'm willing to see reduced damage if need-be to make that happen.

here's a big question i have... is snarl going to do anything now that our evasion has been reduced?

(the rest here is mostly off topic)

from page 1, i think ... please don't alter the tail whip animation.. i was just remarking last night to someone how cool it still is after 6 years. it may be misleading and it may seem long, but i HAVE seen the animation interrupted by other abilities (usually a claw swipe animation).

about breath of fire .. it WAS AoE until several months BEFORE the ancient rite .. probably early 2005.. though i think that it probably wasn't until breath of fire III as mentioned. there was a big outcry when that happened. ("so let me get this straight.. you're taking away our AoE breath to give us one we can't get 'til ancient and making it cost hoard?") of course they added how much damage it does, but not the accuracy...

it's sad to see how few people know what menacing presence does.. and several of the other abilities. come on people, read the descriptions.

am i the only one that does great damage with breath of fire? maybe it's because i've been fighting tier 4 lately (for comps) .. i dunno.

accurate breath quests to 100 instead of only 40 - this really needs to happen. how many years have people been asking for certain quests to actually have their series completed to 100? don't get me wrong, i'm thankful for the ones that have (especially craft).

regarding dragon's reach vs. ranged bolt - reach is instant cast... that alone makes it more useful to me for pulling. often i'm trying to sneak in between wandering mobs to pull a single out. i can't do that if i have to wait for the bolt to cast.

to raeshlavik ... are you saying you've had no str scales for crafting before now? really looks like you could use some crafting advice if so.

[Silverblaze]

ON TOPIC:

staggering howl - used at the end of a fight to speed up a kill only. i know what this does, but it kindof contradicts what you want for spiked scales.. the less often a mob hits you, the less damage it takes.

here's a big question i have... is snarl going to do anything now that our evasion has been reduced?

(it's sad to see how few people know what menacing presence does.. and several of the other abilities. come on people, read the descriptions.

am i the only one that does great damage with breath of fire?

accurate breath quests to 100 instead of only 40 - this really needs to happen. how many years have people been asking for certain quests to actually have their series completed to 100? don't get me wrong, i'm thankful for the ones that have (especially craft).

Staggering Howl: I still think it's a good ability for prolonged fights.

Snarl: Good Question!

Menacing Presence: I know, I love the ability.

Breath of Fire: I do good damage.

More Quests to 100 from 40!? I concur whole heartedly!

I will say one thing however. We already get 10 Breath Skill a level. We get breath accuracy from hoard or so everyone has always said. (Is it damage only?) Power effects the breath skill. Not sure we need more skill to hit with breath. Won't complain, but I don't miss all that often.

[walkerglassmire]

I will say one thing however. We already get 10 Breath Skill a level. We get breath accuracy from hoard or so everyone has always said. (Is it damage only?) Power effects the breath skill. Not sure we need more skill to hit with breath. Won't complain, but I don't miss all that often.

In all honesty, I haven't built Breath Weapon scales, nor do I have any points into Power, but at the same time, I've had Ice Breath since it was released to both factions. I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever hit with it. Lightning Breath since I became an adult (has been a while now) I can probably count on both hands the number of times that's ever hit. I stopped bothering a LONG time ago, cuz they NEVER hit. I haven't played round much with Acid yet, having spent most of my hunting time lately hunting things immune/almost immune to nature damage, or atleast the type that Acid Breath does. My standard Breath o Fire III hits often enough to use, though the damage is so-so. I DO like Burst o Fire, or whatever it's called. That one seems to do really decent damage and normally lands on everyone on the mob I let it loose on.

All in all, more Breath Accuracy would be REALLY nice.

[Dragonboy]

I am just an ordinary ancient dragon with TnC maxed, and strenght vs Primal at about 70/30 so that I can atleast cast my teched spells at 1070 current for Quikeningbreeze...

I don't have a problem about BoI or BoL hitting, so I suggest you check out your setup and try them again. Before I received BoFB I used BoL and BoI all the time due to their damage over a larger area, only use BoF in fights against single mobs.

[Litarath]

In all honesty, I haven't built Breath Weapon scales, nor do I have any points into Power *snip*. My standard Breath o Fire III hits often enough to use, though the damage is so-so. *snip*

Breath Weapon scales are quite nifty, actually; I have a hatchie who was built to have her breath weapon be her most powerful weapon, its amazing

All in all, more Breath Accuracy would be REALLY nice.

Completely agreed, but why not add the skill too? so we can customize it better.

To Amon, since this topic is about dragon skills/abilities, I'd also like to redirect your attention to this topic too....

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...=Dragon+Breath

This would be a very nice addition to have

[peladon]

.
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You either have to have massive primal or it's useless.
.
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Not many draggis have a stupidly high enough primal for it to stick.

Heh... it is well to know that a Fool may be stupid as well as lacking wisdom... .


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save The Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Morphaz Bladewing]

On Galewind:

Why not make it the spellcaster equivalent to silver strike? Give it hoard cost, some decent damage output and base it on primal in a way a melee dragon would not get much out of it (maybe TPs spent in primal?), adjust the recycle and while you're at it, a gold rage equivalent for spellcasters as well.

[Freelancer]

Hey Amon,

I agree with most of the sentiments in this thread and would like to add an ability (of sorts) to the list. Lasting Embers.

Lvl 50 quest that takes a good time to do and you get a crystal that is... well... useless. I understand the change (not that I liked it) that happened to make the crystal work for only BoF and Flame burst but that change made the crystal even more useless. I only used the crystal because I didn't have a better one and when I got one out it went. I don't think that any lvl 50+ dragon with half decent crystals is going to use this regularly. Now it just sits in my vault taking up stack space. To improve this I think that it needs to made into a passive ability.

[Shian]

Can't remember if this was mentioned or not, the stun that tail whip grants only lasts for one or two seconds, not six as the ability tells and may or may not break on damage. I can't get it to stick long enough to find out.

[Dhalin]

Can't remember if this was mentioned or not, the stun that tail whip grants only lasts for one or two seconds, not six as the ability tells and may or may not break on damage. I can't get it to stick long enough to find out.

I don't recall reading the tooltip lately, but I Do remember noticing it wearing off after a second or two myself.. thought that kinda strange.

[Morphaz Bladewing]

Strangely, many stuns work like that. Even stuns mobs use. Sometimes I get hit by lightning clouds or shocking blasts that read "10 seconds" on the tooltip but it only lasts five or six. Not that I mind it in that case...

[Dragonboy]

Hey Amon,

I agree with most of the sentiments in this thread and would like to add an ability (of sorts) to the list. Lasting Embers.

Lvl 50 quest that takes a good time to do and you get a crystal that is... well... useless. I understand the change (not that I liked it) that happened to make the crystal work for only BoF and Flame burst but that change made the crystal even more useless. I only used the crystal because I didn't have a better one and when I got one out it went. I don't think that any lvl 50+ dragon with half decent crystals is going to use this regularly. Now it just sits in my vault taking up stack space. To improve this I think that it needs to made into a passive ability.

I must really disagree with you here. I have been lvl 100 for a long time and during the entire time I have had that crystal in my scales and plan to keep it there for as long as it remains ingame. While I think that the Lasting Embers nerf was logical considering flame damage after using an ice damaging attack is strange and it indeed made the crystals less usefull.

I just think that it is a shame that the only true dragon crystal is actually barely usefull compared to the level 100 crystals that anyone can farm from certain mobs and I would love to have a quest which will make the crystal a passive ability upon completion.

[Frith-Rae]

Ok I've got my two cents on this - being back in game yesterday for the first time in awhile and actually fighting something..

Honestly I just feel ALL the dragon abilities are on too long of a cooldown. Bite, Tailwhip, Galewind - these are all on 1-2 minute cooldowns. Everything is on at least a one minute cooldown.

This is just wayyyy too long. Sorry I don't gold rage everything, I don't even silver strike most things - I'm too old school when hoard was impossible to get and ticked down over time that I HATE using hoard to take down mobs (gold shield isn't even on my taskbar) I shouldn't HAVE a problem with (i.e. I'm level 90 - I shoudln't have to use those two attacks for anything say below 80 to kill them in a reasonable amount of time.)

But I certainly have a problem with using the rest of my abilities in 15 seconds, the mob is still up, and then standing there and wacking them with "white damage" and going to get some dinner and coming back and still wacking away and nothing is done with its timer yet :/. So then it comes to "well I might as well use GR/SS because nothign else is done with its timer! and I dont' want to sit here killing this thing for 5 minutes!"

After playing through all the other MMOs in the last year, this is really dated. Global Cooldowns of a few seconds are fine (as in all other games). And ultraawesome abilities (Such as GR as apparenlty people who hunt more than me are saying) are fine on a 1-3 minute cooldown.

But to have basic attacks on a 1-2 minute cooldown is just awful. And extreme. Combat shoudln't be slowed down just because I kill ONE thing and then have to sit for a few minutes before I can attack anything again - waiting for my basic attacks to not be on cooldown. Its not because I need health (yesterday I was fighting level 50 gold golems...), or to recharge anything - its simply because my bite has 30 seconds to go? Crazy obnoxious. Boring. Snoresville.

I guess maybe 7-8 years ago this wasn't so obnoxiou cuz I didn't know better. But now I do. The rest of the world has moved on. I have tons of fun fighting in other games because I can move from mob to mob and only have to rest if I need health, or mana, or whatever. Not because I am waiting for my attack I learned at level 5 to get off its 1 minute timer...

On top of this as others have noted, the effects outside of pure damage on things like tailwhip only last a few seconds. So why do we have to wait a full minute (or 2 or 5) to use it again?

Fights should take longer because they are harder (i.e. the level is higher, the mob is named, whatever). Not because I'm standing there waiting on cooldowns on BASIC abilities to go away from a single fight on something 40 levels below me (or 10, or even no levels below me). Artificial extending of combat is FTL.

So to nerf anything - nerf the stupid ability cooldowns. 15-20 seconds would be much more reasonable, tolerable, and still be on a much longer cooldown than any other basic ability in any other MMO in existance at the moment :/.

Now you can keep a couple minutes on GR, or SS (silver or spiked) and even the breaths (for all the uselessness they usually are) if you want to make breath seem "special" (though I"m in agreement with others this really should be something we can use every fight as you know we're dragons..or last I heard..).

But the rest really should be able to be used more than once in a fight - or even in consecutive fights without having to sit and wait for the cooldown to expire.

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Ok I've got my two cents on this - being back in game yesterday for the first time in awhile and actually fighting something..

Honestly I just feel ALL the dragon abilities are on too long of a cooldown. Bite, Tailwhip, Galewind - these are all on 1-2 minute cooldowns. Everything is on at least a one minute cooldown.

This is just wayyyy too long. Sorry I don't gold rage everything, I don't even silver strike most things - I'm too old school when hoard was impossible to get and ticked down over time that I HATE using hoard to take down mobs (gold shield isn't even on my taskbar) I shouldn't HAVE a problem with (i.e. I'm level 90 - I shoudln't have to use those two attacks for anything say below 80 to kill them in a reasonable amount of time.)

But I certainly have a problem with using the rest of my abilities in 15 seconds, the mob is still up, and then standing there and wacking them with "white damage" and going to get some dinner and coming back and still wacking away and nothing is done with its timer yet :/. So then it comes to "well I might as well use GR/SS because nothign else is done with its timer! and I dont' want to sit here killing this thing for 5 minutes!"

After playing through all the other MMOs in the last year, this is really dated. Global Cooldowns of a few seconds are fine (as in all other games). And ultraawesome abilities (Such as GR as apparenlty people who hunt more than me are saying) are fine on a 1-3 minute cooldown.

But to have basic attacks on a 1-2 minute cooldown is just awful. And extreme. Combat shoudln't be slowed down just because I kill ONE thing and then have to sit for a few minutes before I can attack anything again - waiting for my basic attacks to not be on cooldown. Its not because I need health (yesterday I was fighting level 50 gold golems...), or to recharge anything - its simply because my bite has 30 seconds to go? Crazy obnoxious. Boring. Snoresville.

I guess maybe 7-8 years ago this wasn't so obnoxiou cuz I didn't know better. But now I do. The rest of the world has moved on. I have tons of fun fighting in other games because I can move from mob to mob and only have to rest if I need health, or mana, or whatever. Not because I am waiting for my attack I learned at level 5 to get off its 1 minute timer...

On top of this as others have noted, the effects outside of pure damage on things like tailwhip only last a few seconds. So why do we have to wait a full minute (or 2 or 5) to use it again?

Fights should take longer because they are harder (i.e. the level is higher, the mob is named, whatever). Not because I'm standing there waiting on cooldowns on BASIC abilities to go away from a single fight on something 40 levels below me (or 10, or even no levels below me). Artificial extending of combat is FTL.

So to nerf anything - nerf the stupid ability cooldowns. 15-20 seconds would be much more reasonable, tolerable, and still be on a much longer cooldown than any other basic ability in any other MMO in existance at the moment :/.

Now you can keep a couple minutes on GR, or SS (silver or spiked) and even the breaths (for all the uselessness they usually are) if you want to make breath seem "special" (though I"m in agreement with others this really should be something we can use every fight as you know we're dragons..or last I heard..).

But the rest really should be able to be used more than once in a fight - or even in consecutive fights without having to sit and wait for the cooldown to expire.

looking for change to suit your own playstyle is not a good thing. Mobs vomit hoardable items. you have gold rage and silver strike that can be used often and 4 spells to cast.
the ideal is to used them all, after all they are given to you. It just sounds bad that you would like to see changes because you do not use key abilities do to your on phobia.

While i do agree some cooldowns should be shorter, it should reflect the ideal, the usage of all your skills. Not by your decision to not use skills.

There is another thing you have to put into consideration, equipment, spells and teches that can reduce delay. All that has to be taken into consideration.

Already on the servers we have seen some changes to skills. If the devs are planning to reduce cooldowns they have alot of math to deal with , gear and combinations to deal with.

[Frith-Rae]

Ok, even if I used all the cooldowns I'd still be waiting 1-2 minutes between each fight. Because I choose not to use gold rage or silver stike every time, then I'm LENGTHENING the fights - and I still am sitting around doing nothing waiting for abilities to refresh, or just hitting the mob that's still alive with spam regular attack and waiting...

Just commenting that the cooldowns on the melee-fight abilities (bite, tailwhip, ravage, etc) seem pretty excessive relative to their power. Unless by mechanic we're suppose to just sit on auto attack and use nothing else to fight because they are all so "special" as abilities?

Plese, tell me - I am certainly not up to date on gear - dragon scales that can be teched that reduce the cooldowns of our MELEE attacks (not spells). Please, I will go out and get those, I had no idea...

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Ok, even if I used all the cooldowns I'd still be waiting 1-2 minutes between each fight. Because I choose not to use gold rage or silver stike every time, then I'm LENGTHENING the fights - and I still am sitting around doing nothing waiting for abilities to refresh, or just hitting the mob that's still alive with spam regular attack and waiting...

Just commenting that the cooldowns on the melee-fight abilities (bite, tailwhip, ravage, etc) seem pretty excessive relative to their power. Unless by mechanic we're suppose to just sit on auto attack and use nothing else to fight because they are all so "special" as abilities?

Plese, tell me - I am certainly not up to date on gear - dragon scales that can be teched that reduce the cooldowns of our MELEE attacks (not spells). Please, I will go out and get those, I had no idea...

you find those later on, but biped buffs like gift of aclarity lowers cooldowns.
also there are new dragon teches that up your dmg and makes notonly your normal swings hit harder but boost the dmg of a skill. I would adbise you get the wing tech for piercing winds, maybe the chance to hit tech for your wep at your tier. Lots of new things out there that boost your dmg output. not only these will quicken fights, using a combo of a few skills can kill a mob while leaving other skills to use on other mobs,

Like i said I do agree for a cooldown on said skills you mentioned. but a few things must be taken into consideration to do so.
Dragons fully teched (at any tier with the teches) can dish to much dmg. Bipeds need to specialize in tons of schools to start rivaling that dmg.

[Dragonboy]

you find those later on, but biped buffs like gift of aclarity lowers cooldowns.
[...]
Like i said I do agree for a cooldown on said skills you mentioned. but a few things must be taken into consideration to do so.
Dragons fully teched (at any tier with the teches) can dish to much dmg. Bipeds need to specialize in tons of schools to start rivaling that dmg.

Isn't it so that Gift of Alacrity only allows you to attack again faster and does not reduce the cool down timers on abilities. I do know that it makes our regular slash attack gets done more often.

Not wanting to actually go into this whole Dragon vs. Biped thing again, but what kind of damage would you like dragons the size of a 20 ton truck do? A feather tickling attack?
I would really love to see this against an equal leveled monster instead of all present abilities instead of slashing your opponent we tickle them to death…
Rvlion -> [Insert any monster] : Feather Attack [ 10 Mind ]

The cool downs of all abilites for an end-game dragon (read end-game being lvl 100 with all quests finished!!) except Silver Strike, Gold Rage and the Breath attacks are just way to long and if anyone doesn’t agree they are just wrong or not end-game yet.
My lvl 32 hatchling Gold Rage is on a 40s timer instead of the lvl 100 ancients 15s.
Ravage compared to Gold Rage does by far not enough damage, but is still on a 2:00 minute timer and no tech kit will ever change that 7-8 times Gold Rage means a lot more damage then ravage could ever do even with a tech kit. Unless the tech kit actually reduces the count down and increases damage dramaticly.

It is true that with hoard dropping plenty I find myself using Gold Rage against lower level mobs just to be finished faster, but if Ravage or Galewind can do that job for me and be cooled down faster then this would become my primary choice.

The cool down timers across the board need to be adjusted badly, same damage, just increased timer for Gold Rage (1-2 minutes instead of 15s for an end-game dragon) and dramaticly reduced timers for Ravage, Bite, Galewind, Drain Strike, Staggering Howl, [insert any that I seem to have forgotten from the top of my mind].
While the timers of at least Gold Rage should go up when you get an improved version instead of down all other abilities should go down or staying the same at a reduced time.

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Isn't it so that Gift of Alacrity only allows you to attack again faster and does not reduce the cool down timers on abilities. I do know that it makes our regular slash attack gets done more often.

Not wanting to actually go into this whole Dragon vs. Biped thing again, but what kind of damage would you like dragons the size of a 20 ton truck do? A feather tickling attack?
I would really love to see this against an equal leveled monster instead of all present abilities instead of slashing your opponent we tickle them to death…
Rvlion -> [Insert any monster] : Feather Attack [ 10 Mind ]

The cool downs of all abilites for an end-game dragon (read end-game being lvl 100 with all quests finished!!) except Silver Strike, Gold Rage and the Breath attacks are just way to long and if anyone doesn’t agree they are just wrong or not end-game yet.
My lvl 32 hatchling Gold Rage is on a 40s timer instead of the lvl 100 ancients 15s.
Ravage compared to Gold Rage does by far not enough damage, but is still on a 2:00 minute timer and no tech kit will ever change that 7-8 times Gold Rage means a lot more damage then ravage could ever do even with a tech kit. Unless the tech kit actually reduces the count down and increases damage dramaticly.

It is true that with hoard dropping plenty I find myself using Gold Rage against lower level mobs just to be finished faster, but if Ravage or Galewind can do that job for me and be cooled down faster then this would become my primary choice.

The cool down timers across the board need to be adjusted badly, same damage, just increased timer for Gold Rage (1-2 minutes instead of 15s for an end-game dragon) and dramaticly reduced timers for Ravage, Bite, Galewind, Drain Strike, Staggering Howl, [insert any that I seem to have forgotten from the top of my mind].
While the timers of at least Gold Rage should go up when you get an improved version instead of down all other abilities should go down or staying the same at a reduced time.

Acually was stand corrected aclarity reduces the time it takes to cast the spell. As for your dragon not hitting hard. This is somthing I guess I will have to point out.

to keep the D v B short. Dragons can solo to 100, Bipeds Cannot solo and adventure class to 100 without touching the others. Dragons get armor per lvl, Bipeds do not. roll one

Ill mention some Dragon teches that are AVAL for every tier.
Piercing winds. Increaes your dmg and your wing attack skill (2 min timer) supposed to reduce at lvl 100 the skill by 25% you can get two and they stack. Since lvl 10 my new dragon has had the t1 version which adds +5 to their attack , delay ajusted. One t1 scale raises your attack by alot. (am awayre that piercings wind time reduce off the skill is not funtional)

Just not the attack of that said skill raises the damage of the skill. it raises your base dmg, thus affecting all your skills. At lvl 100 you can get +50 dmg delay ajusted. This is almost as having another wep on your char.

There are other teches that reduce timers of other skills also.

all the skills add +dmg which affects all skills, if you get one on wep, head and both wings you can get up to +75 damage delayed ajusted. That is the Max dmg od a demon claw. so if you have such wep you have a chance of dishing 140 dmg delayed ajusted.

your gold rages go from 800 a hit to up to 1600 dmg per hit. about double. your white attack dmg is up. drain strike hits for 900 to 1200 healing you ALOT (timer is good as is.) all other skills hit harder, the wind attack with 2 teched scales hits for 700+ and when timer fixed it should be reduced to be used every min.

Point here is, all these teches are aval in every tier greatly increasing a dragons damage output (melee) per tier. reducing greatly their timers will have a huge overall effect on their dmg.

Like i said yes some skills should be looked at, but there are plenty of things that need to be well checked before deciding by how much time they reduce time.

finally ill tell you an idea position that makes dragons dps unrivaled even by uberpeds. There is a rare wep from the dryad event that has a chance to cause the target to recieve 200% dmg of incomming fire attacks, add a fire buff to a dragon with a demon claw. There is a window of oportunity that both of the demon claw and 200% proc at the same time (multiple dragons with demon claw raise that chance of happeneing.) Afully teched dragon save wep (60 dmg ajusted) have hit for 4500 to 5500 per gold strike doing up to 17k dmg if not more with one skill.

the only thing im mentioning here that is considered *endgame* is the demon claw. which is not as good as a teched lvl 100 reg wep only having that 3% to reduce an enemys armor to 0. This is only useful for big boss fights like the myloc queen , gigaroth ect. Reg mobs and named just dont stand a chance to a well equipped dragon.

So seek on your lvl 30+ dragon the teches you can use, not hard to find someone it chaos who can make you them if you dont have them, or make them yourself from your reg dragon.

many people underestimate the true bonus dragons got when these teches where introduced. Because they are aval to every tier, just need to find someone to make them to your aval tier (piercing winds can be teched at craft 100 and thats expert, there is one more). Dragons are strong . not no pansys as your trying to portray them. In my eyes they are where they are supposed to be.

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Rechecked . seems only pircing winds is supposed to reduce timers, the other ones only enhance Bite , ravage, ect.