Dragon Ability feedback

[Dhalin]

do not nerf gold rage.
It makes no sense for me.
As a hybride I`m not overpowered with that.
Helians aren`t either.

Pure Lunus might make much damage with that- but they have to do without other abilities or spells.

The problem therein, as another Caster-based dragon in the thread has said, that even with low T&C and high Primal, is that Gold Rage -still- outdamages most of the things spellcasting dragons can do. That's just plain silly to have a spellcasting dragon's main damage ability be melee-based. The main issue, is that you just miss more often; Gold Raging as a spellcaster is like gambling. Sometimes you hit for great damage, sometimes you don't. When you do hit, though, you still do more damage with your claws than your spells, and that's just silly.

The entire be-all and end-all of a dragon is just that: Gold Rage.

Wanna kill something? Gold Rage it.
In danger of dying? Gold Rage it.

All other skills are used while Gold Rage is on cooldown, as filler.

It is like this:

If Gold Rage is Available: Gold Rage.
If Gold Rage is not Available: Silver Strike, Ravage, Bite, etc.

The only reason I ever used anything *other* than Gold Rage, is for hoard conservation. But with people who have money and/or people who can farm t5 for hoardables, this is not a problem. They throw gold rages like it is candy, to the point that GR might as well not even *have* a hoard cost.

I would like to have some use for my other abilities, even the melee ones.

Bite, for instance, does very little damage for it being a Damage-Dealing ability. Tail Whip does low damage, but that's fine as the damage is a side-effect. Its main use is for a Stun and that's fine. Bite, however, is 100% damage. No Stun, no Debuffs (Except a Damage-over-Time), nothing.

I know you don't want Gold Rage nerfed, but sadly I think it is necessary if we are going to have any sort of variety in our gameplay. Sure, you can decide to Tail Whip and Breath of Fire something to death, but it takes 10x as long, and does not make you viable in endgame content.

But the other person who said "need to give dragons time to get used to the new abilities" does make a point.. but if we buff the other abilities and don't nerf Gold Rage, then we'd have literal gods walking Istaria until this "getting used to" period is done.

Edit: Here's another way of looking at it... what if all bipeds got a racial that cost coin, that did huge melee damage that out-damaged all other abilities?

Wouldn't it seem silly to you that Warriors and other melee classes would be waaay overpowered, and then Mages are scratching their heads wondering why their staff is doing more damage than the most mighty fireballs they can conjure? Wouldn't that seem a bit silly to you?

That's exactly what dragons are going through right now with Gold Rage.

[velveeta]

wow i totally sign what dhal just posted....
i never realized it, but his description is exactly like how mw fights.......

gold rage is the mostest kewl beans in awesome sauce - prolly shouldn't be touched, unless it is with a lesser cooldown....

i don't even worry about the slight hoard cost of gold rage - i can always get hoard from somewhere to pay for it - i would be lost without it....

personally i like the draggy abilities - but they are the only ones i know so i am not sure if i might like others better or worse - so not really sure how much insight i can be about possible changes or improvements....

[LOVWYRM]

Dhalin- I hear what you are saying.

But I`ve never seen it that way,
cause I use ALL my abilities and all my triple teched spells to fight.
I have additional wingscales to power my casting, different scale sets and claws. I can change with a click.
I never run out of weapons- and to be honest- I do not care about cool downs.

But I really love my gold rage. You can`t convince me that it would be of any good if its nerfed;-).
Noone is forced to play a caster only.
As I said before: There are so many ways to tune a dragon.

How about that: when you decide which path to go (RoP)you get Gold Rage as a Lunus and an äquivalent ability if you are Helian. Which then is faction only.

[Shian]

Why are we asking for nerfs?

-If a player is spamming Gold Rage and this one ability is the be-all, this tells you there is a problem with THE OTHER ABILITIES.

Why do people use Gold Rage? It's powerful and the other abilities (*coughs* SPELLS!) just don't do anything worthwhile.

Remember that our max level is 100. Our enemies have no such max number. I believe Gold Rage was the answer to that, it gives us half a chance at beating the very high level rating enemies.

[AmonGwareth]

Don't worry, Shian, I did not open this thread to ask for reasons to nerf things. All I asked about was little-used Dragon abilities. That others side-tracked on Breaths (that I have completely ignored posts about) and Gold Rage or Primal Rebirth is their own choice. I hadn't planned and won't be touching those.

I did, however, make some small changes to Menacing Presence, Snarl, Determination, and Mighty Roar.

[LOVWYRM]

Thank you very much, Amon

And sry for derailing now and then

[Dhalin]

Why are we asking for nerfs?

-If a player is spamming Gold Rage and this one ability is the be-all, this tells you there is a problem with THE OTHER ABILITIES.

Why do people use Gold Rage? It's powerful and the other abilities (*coughs* SPELLS!) just don't do anything worthwhile.

Remember that our max level is 100. Our enemies have no such max number. I believe Gold Rage was the answer to that, it gives us half a chance at beating the very high level rating enemies.

The problem, Shian, is that if we buff the other abilities to be good, we will _still_ have Gold Rage... and I'm afraid that could make dragons a little Too Powerful.

I mentioned the nerf to Gold Rage, because well... yes, I'd love those "lesser-used" abilities to have more use in the game world, but... seriously, do you expect to get your cake and eat it too?

If Amon feels Gold Rage doesn't need touched and the abilities can be buffed, that's all fine and dandy too, tho where he said he "Ignored" posts was kinda bleh, but oh well.

I think more than just myself agreed that the reason why everything else is "meh" is because dragons have this one ability that is just so powerful, the rest of it has to be barely-there.

But we'll see what Changes he has in mind....

[cauri_order]

Shian, if they end up buffing the other abilities, what need do we have for an overpowered gold rage?

I personally dislike dragon combat. It really is gold rage, gold rage, gold rage. That's not very fun. Sure, it's nice to see a mob die to one attack, but after years of doing so, it gets a tad stale.

To another poster - why more abilities for caster dragons? Perhaps it doesn't need to be abilities. Dragon casters need some more oomph and have needed it since the game launched.

There's just no way with the current game mechanics for a caster dragon to compete with a melee dragon. *cough* gold rage *cough*

The introduction of the epic spell Drulkar's Wrath is a nice addition, but on a 10 minute cooldown. Why bother whan i can do similiar or greater damage eveyr 15 seconds?

[rizo/nawkia]

gold burst? or just get rid of GR alll together.

[Shian]

Nvm .

[Creme]

I love dragon fear...it usually lands on same tier mobs, and very occasionally lands on higher tier mobs (which I think is balanced as really....that dragons get a mez at all is rather spectacular, plus it's got a nice duration on it).

Snarl: I use it; I haven't paid attention to how frequently it lands though.

Menacing Presence: I use it. I do wonder if multiple dragons use it; how does it get resolved?

Spiked Scales: I use it, it's great, it's got a nice recycle and I wouldn't change it. Minimal downtime, which I think is more than fair.

Staggering Howl: I use it, it's duration is 2x the recycle so it's quite handy. It's kinda like a dispirit foe w/out the range. I think to make it more helpful, add some range to it and let it be used as an extra puller.

Tail Whip: I use it, lands frequently enough to be helpful and not consistently enough to always get you out of tight spots (seems to always miss on Mani, but wolves are very dodgy).

Dragon reach: I'm fine with the recycle on it. Why should we have ability pullers *always* available? IMO that's what teched spells are for and I use ranged teched winds and prime bolt until my reach recycles.

Galewind I think could be beefier, it's primal based and has a relatively long recycle for the amount of damage.

[Shur]

then we'd have literal gods walking Istaria

Well, according to the game lore i read in all those ability quests, RoP, and ARoP.... yeah, kinda.

[Raeshlavik]

To another poster - why more abilities for caster dragons? Perhaps it doesn't need to be abilities. Dragon casters need some more oomph and have needed it since the game launched.

There's just no way with the current game mechanics for a caster dragon to compete with a melee dragon. *cough* gold rage *cough*

The introduction of the epic spell Drulkar's Wrath is a nice addition, but on a 10 minute cooldown. Why bother whan i can do similiar or greater damage eveyr 15 seconds?

Unfortunately, it's more than just combat - we get the short end of the stick with crafting too...

To be a 'good' caster, I have all of my points in Power, Primal, and T&C, in that order... Last night I hit 65 crafter, so tonight I went to make myself a new tool claw to celebrate - a really nice level 60 cobalt one with a socket in it!

Unfortunately the level 60 tool claw requires 600 mining or quarrying to equip, and completely buffed with every strength enhancing spell I have, at level 65, the best I can hit is 594. I'm currently making myself some strength scales so I can equip a level 60 tool.

[BrightCat]

I use all of the abilities when fighting. I like to throw everything I've got at enemies including the kitchen sink. However, I do agree that Galewind takes a bit too long to recycle. It doesn't do great amounts of damage so I think that it could be used more often.

Menacing presence I never really use at all unless I need to pull large amounts of enemies at once, but then again I just run through the mob more often. I think that if Menacing Presence's AoE was greater and the range longer I'd use it more.

Staggering Howl I do like, when I pay attention it does indeed make a difference (though I dunno if it's a big difference).

Snarl I always use both as a puller and debuffer (it makes me feel better knowing I can debuff an enemy effective or not >_<).

I don't use Dragon Fear very often at all. I guess situations rarely call for it.

I think that's about it.

[Fyrethorne]

Don't worry, Shian, I did not open this thread to ask for reasons to nerf things. All I asked about was little-used Dragon abilities. That others side-tracked on Breaths (that I have completely ignored posts about) and Gold Rage or Primal Rebirth is their own choice. I hadn't planned and won't be touching those.

I did, however, make some small changes to Menacing Presence, Snarl, Determination, and Mighty Roar.

Mighty Roar? What is that? Am I missing an ability, or is there a new one coming out? Hope I'm not getting excited for nothing......

[BrightCat]

Mighty Roar? What is that? Am I missing an ability, or is there a new one coming out? Hope I'm not getting excited for nothing......

I think he meant Primal Roar.

[Guaran]

Mighty Roar? What is that? Am I missing an ability, or is there a new one coming out? Hope I'm not getting excited for nothing......

Mighty Roar was an old buff we got, that was replaced with Determination and Primal Roar years ago. The dragon mobs still use it however.

[Nyoko]

As a 'caster' dragon I do use a lot of the not very often used abilities, and truthfully, I rarely if ever notice a difference. Its rare that I really hunt in a large group so I almost never use menacing presence. Snarl I definitely use, though its rare that I see the real difference, and staggering howl I also use, but usually all I see is the damage done, compared to the delay and it half the time doesn't hit.

Unfortunately I also have to fall into the gold rage rut, because I have almost everything in primal, power, and focus, and still barely damage the mobs, and hit almost half the time. If anything, can something be done about the spells? I don't know how many people use them alot, but I can say I have noticed that some of them I have started moving away from, because I end up dying as a caster more then anything. And I rarely see any real damage with gale wind.

[Creme]

Str does NOT add dmg to your attacks, it does however increase your Tooth and Claw which add damage to your attacks. It takes tons to make a difference and infact fully str scaled armored dragons will deal maybe 40 to 50 more dmg per goldrage hit (tested) then an armored or health scaled dragon..

Seriously? This is news to me.

I must have been playing a different game all these years.

[Creme]

I agree with most of what has been said here.
Spiked scales sucks hard when i can stand in bristugo for 30 seconds and have cloak of thorns, which does more damage and lasts 15 times as long.

I knew there would be a cloak nerf when I read this.

Spiked Scales has just become much more valuable and useful.