power-leveling- what is it?

[LOVWYRM]

To be honest- I`m not sure about it.

I`ll appreciate your input- your opinions and experiences.

PLS NOTE: We are NOT going to talk about exploits here.
AND PLEASE NO RANTS, NO ACCUSATIONS, NO FLAMING.

Is powerleveling illegal or just political incorrect?
What is acceptable and useful? Where does it begin where does it end?
Why does it bother you -or not bother you at all?

I`m aware that this is a hot topic, and that there will be total contrary
opinions.
So again: Pls lets have an educated and fair discussion/exchange of views
Thank you

[Dhalin]

Powerleveling: The act of using a high-level character to greatly speed up a character's leveling beyond that what the character is normally capable of.

This varies game-by-game; it would need to be explained with each unique game in mind.

In Istaria, the types of PLing that do Not involve glitches, bugs, or exploits include having a higher level biped casting buffs on a lowbie that they don't normally have access to, sticking around and throwing heals on a lowbie so that they needn't waste time doing so themselves, especially if the high level character is keeping the lowbie alive through things that would normally have killed them easily. High-level characters collecting trophies can also be done, though I'd think that'd be a bit slower. Also, the high-level characters can kill things that yield exp to the lowbie even if they are in the same group. They tried to remove this entirely, but some situations still exist.

In other games:

FFXI: Using a high-level character capable of healing, to keep a person alive while they kill things they couldn't normally kill. This can be done with single people or whole groups.

WoW: Using a high-level character to run a lower-level character through a dungeon. Kills will still yield exp, and there's a sort of glitch or bug that involves the person disbanding and landing the killing blow or something to get full exp. I don't know the details how that works exactly. I do know, though, that a few dungeons/levels yield extremely high XP over time, Scarlet Monastery comes to mind. I remember taking two Level 40 characters into SM, with one Level 80. Level 80 cleared the whole dungeon in about 10-15 minutes, which yielded 60-75% of a level on both lowbies. It normally takes 1.5-2 hours to get that much exp by the game's usual leveling method, solo questing.

[Kerech]

My own personal feelings: Powerleveling is not illegal, and as long as you are not killstealing or taking spawns from other players, it's not politically incorrect.

Everyone chooses to play a game their own way. If they want to skip content, either to catch up with friends, or to skip low levels and get to higher level content, that is up to them. As long as they don't interfere with other players' enjoyment of the game, what is the harm?

I usually play 2-3 accounts in any MMO that I am subscribed to, and I have powerleveled alt characters at times, but I've never interfered with anyone else's hunting and I only do it with alt characters to skip through content that I've already done repeatedly.

[Phillip]

It's when a high level player helps a noob level up. It's a very common in every MMO out there. Some get offendeded, some don't, some make stuff up to glorify. Developers tend to frown because they want the player to experience their work, even if that player has ready gone through the leveling process a few times, like leveling alts in other games, etc.

Personally I have no issues with it.

[StalePopcorn]

Hmmm... tricky question... completely depends on how players power-level...

As long as it is (a) within the confines of the Istaria EULA (which everyone must accept before playing) and (b) doesn't reduce other players enjoyment of the game 9which is in the EULA anyway, but I think it's the most important part), then that's fine with me. If people want to power-level in 2 weeks to Ancient just so they can "finish" the game, then they are sorely missing out IMHO

I've been on since just after launch, and my "mightiest" toon is 60 RVR / 60 CLR / 58 SPR, with 100 GTH / 100 JWL and a tiny bit of other schools. I'm in no hurry, and I like to take my time playing games. I'm one of those players that just *has* to finish every quest there is, because they are there So I don't power level, because I don't need to. I'll just wander along at my own pace and enjoy the journey.

If I wanted to catch the bullet-train, I'd play other games instead

[StalePopcorn]

It's when a high level player helps a noob level. It's a very common occurence in every MMO out there. Some get offendeded, some don't, some make stuff up to glorify. Developers tend to frown because they want the player to experience their work, even if that player has ready gone through the leveling process a few times, like leveling alts in other games, etc.

Yes, I agree with that.

I don't think Devs mind all that much, as long as it doesn't ruin other peoples fun. Having no PvP helps enormously I think, as there isn't that "my toon is mightier than yours, so I shall smite thee! PS i'm l33t!!!". So there is no real reason to power-level just so you can beat up on other critters. The only reason to power-level IMHO is either to "finish" the game (though what MMORPG is every completed?), or group up for high-level content. Other than that, what's the point of PLing?

[Dhalin]

PLing is generally frowned upon, because it shortens the amount of time the player plays the game.

They're not in this for charity.

The reason grind exists in an MMORPG, is to keep players, playing. Many newer games try to disguise grind, by giving you lots of different things to do, but it is still grind, but with some flavoring on top.

PLing defeats that whole purpose. Also, players who have had things handed to them, usually get bored easier as well. Hard to believe, I know... but when you're handed a max-level character in a few hours' work (instead of a few weeks'), you tend to be happy... for a few hours. Then when one realizes how much work is involved in making one's character better, now that one in "Endgame", one tends to get discouraged, and quit out of boredom. Ones who have shown dedication, and put the time in to do it the "right" way, however, tend to be used to the grind, and tend to be unwilling to so easily give up on something they worked so hard to achieve.

Also, it cheapens the experience for everyone else. If a thousand people had to claw their way up to Lv100, getting one level every 5 hours, and then suddenly, there's this new wave of people who got to Lv100 in under 30 hours playtime, the other people tend to go "blah..." because things they worked hard to achieve, are now being handed out like candy. Their sense of achievement goes out the window.

[Dhalin]

The only reason to power-level IMHO is either to "finish" the game (though what MMORPG is every completed?), or group up for high-level content.

IMO, the reason people want to PL is to skip the boring part and get to the "meat". They don't want to kill Level 1 bugs, they want to kill Level 100 epic dangerous mobs. They forget, though, that the trip from 1 to 100 is about learning the world, learning the game, learning how to play their character, getting to know people, etc.

They forget or don't realize that the trip to 100 gets them used to the grind that they will find at Endgame. They just want to be "cool like everyone else". They don't want to be this wimp that can barely handle a single-digit leveled mob; they want to be the epic guy slaying the huge monster.

Edit: I will admit, though, that a very grindy game like Istaria makes PLing a lot more Tempting. Not trying to offend or diss the game or its developers, I am only analyzing this from a psychological standpoint. Nobody likes to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and that is what this game is all about, especially the crafting side. Adventuring side has seen a lot of buffs, ones I am *eager* to try. Even though I have a Lv40 biped, I'm eagerly awaiting to try out the new T2 content, as it will be *different* than picking a camp and killing the same thing repeatedly. It will not be optimal XP/hr, but it will be more enjoyable and fun.

IMO, the game developers have been making leaps and bounds of improvement.

[Dragonboy]

I personally experienced the power-leveling thing back on Wind and Unity, when I was dragged as hatchling to 1 of the Satyr islands and were told to sit on the side with some other hatchlings and low level bipeds, while the high level players killed loads of Tarantulas and other mobs that walked near the portal pad.

I made an excuse that I had to leave and left, for me it just didn’t feel right somehow and barely got 25% of a level out of it… A black day in my Istaria carreer.

Personally I think that the gaining of the experience by means of powerleveling should be illegal.

While the player decides for himself if he want to powerlevel himself he has absolutely no idea how the play the character he has just received on a silver platter and dies after trying to kill only 1 mob, while other players can probably take more at the same time.
Due to the nature of the players low experience I have heard stories in the past of them being extremely annoying in groups in a fashion that other players count on them, but fail dramatically and probably got flamed for it.

[Sigi]

With Sigi I did it almost all on my own. It took me 5 years to get to my first lvl 100. Now I "use" her sometimes for leveling my other chars.
f
I don't mind if people do powerleveling, like Kerech said Powerleveling is not illegal, and as long as you are not killstealing or taking spawns from other players, it's not politically incorrect.
But:
I do mind if those people who ran through the content start whining that they are bored and have nothing to do. I really resent those. And I don't think you should take those people serious.

[LungTien Temeraire]

Personnally, I don't like the idea to sit somewhere and yawn while high-level players are killing strong mobs, and get exp without do nothing...
I don't see any issue, to help, some times, a low-level player to kill some mobs he could kill alone, just healing him and being sure he doesn't die (for components, for a quest...), if he asks for that

[velveeta]

vel and to great extent, mourn, both benefited from powerleveling.
both are still here, and have no intention of going anywhere soon.

obviously, i approve of powerleveling IN ISTARIA. i think it makes the game a little easier for players, in that they see what they need to do to get to an uber level.

however - istaria is a somewhat different animal from most mmo's in that you can multiskewl.....i am somewhat less sanguine about powerleveling in most other mmo's simply because you only get one real shot at leveling your alt.

with istaria, you can powerlevel your first skewl, and solo the rest with more knowledge and skillsets than in most other games.

would i take powerleveling when offered, you bet. would i try to help powerlevel someone who asked, yeaper. would i continue to powerlevel someone who is obviously just in it for the quick uber, not at all. the problem with powerleveling is, of course, that some day you will have to face the mobs on your own - and you better know how to fight on your own.
as sigi sez, if you powerlevel and then beatch about how you are bored, you shouldn't have powered - do it the 'right' way if you are truly interested in the game, not in being an uber character....

[Shian]

PLing defeats that whole purpose. Also, players who have had things handed to them, usually get bored easier as well. Hard to believe, I know... but when you're handed a max-level character in a few hours' work (instead of a few weeks'), you tend to be happy... for a few hours. Then when one realizes how much work is involved in making one's character better, now that one in "Endgame", one tends to get discouraged, and quit out of boredom.

I disagree to an extent. I agree on your whole point, that of the max in a few hours a boring. However I really think I would not be here if someone hadn't helped me along the way. Teens in Istaria are rough. One or two level's worth of free handouts rekindles the drive to continue the grind rather than just give up because it's too long a road for the next two levels to get back to 'exciting and new' again.

There ARE spots in levels that are either lacking in decent hunt areas or you're right below the next tier of gear and you're struggling to kill things that should be tackled when the next gear is hit, making the struggle all the more difficult.

A good example is when a (dragon) player reaches a benchmark. 60, 80. Yes, you can now wear new scales and stand up to the level mobs you are supposed to be hunting, but in last tier's gear it's very difficult.

When I had a new hatchling, I found the "Find X creature" on the top of AI nearly impossible due to the adds. When two adult dragons came in and whomped out the quest, I found the next time the trainer sent me up there. it was much easier to focus on the 'it can be done' rather than despair in the previous failed quest and I did the next part on my own.

Same for crafting levels. After three levels out there by yourself, one gives pause to wonder why one is doing such an arduous task. Someone else helping along the way a level or two gives back the focus. At least, it did for me anyways.

Also, it cheapens the experience for everyone else. If a thousand people had to claw their way up to Lv100, getting one level every 5 hours, and then suddenly, there's this new wave of people who got to Lv100 in under 30 hours playtime, the other people tend to go "blah..." because things they worked hard to achieve, are now being handed out like candy. Their sense of achievement goes out the window.

Yes, but does this same reasoning apply to the nth alt? Do these rules remain the same if the PL is only done on alts and not just mains?

Everyone chooses to play a game their own way. If they want to skip content, either to catch up with friends, or to skip low levels and get to higher level content, that is up to them. As long as they don't interfere with other players' enjoyment of the game, what is the harm?

This. The people that got me to join WoW were level 80 already.

[Thicklesip]

Going with the definition of powerleveling as cutting corners (usually with the aid of another) to progress faster:

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it as long as you're sticking to the terms and spirit of the TOS (no bugs, no exploits, no griefing anyone else in the process). That said, motivations and history are extremely important.

-Are you skipping hours of "kill X" because you've already done that exact thing three times before? Fine by me.

-Are you doing it to catch up and play with your friends later on? I find that more of a gray area, with the caveat that many people who try this don't seem to understand that mmo grinds get worse later on, and if they can't bear to do it now they'll probably catch up to their friends and be extremely demoralized. (Not everyone, but if I had a buck for every time I saw someone beg their friends to carry them to the end, get there and go "why aren't you guys still dropping everything to come play with me??" before quitting in a huff I could feed a couple small nations.)

-Are you doing it to skip all the "boring" kill-100-beetles so you can get to the level cap and do stuff there? If this is your first time through, you're probably shooting yourself in the foot, both because 1. MMOs tend to use the trek to the end to teach you how to play and 2. for a lot of games, including Istaria, the end is kill-100-beetles.


I will also freely admit I have precious little sympathy for anyone who thinks that, since they did it the hard way to start, people getting the same thing as handouts later is a travesty. MMOs are tied to the concept that what is fresh and new now will be replaced with something else later, which will also someday be replaced. "I did it the hard way" should be enough, if you really want bragging rights.

I know games have a nasty habit of offering tangible rewards for what used to just be something you could use to one-up your friends in conversation, and people get cranky when they feel like their "reward" is "taken away" by other people later accomplishing the same thing once the bar has been lowered. But that's not how it works. Nobody can ever undo the fact that you did it when it was more difficult any more than you can halt the march of the game forward into time.

[Phillip]

Not speaking or anyone else but I'm not bothered when other folks get PL'd. Such envy that supposely ruin one's game is weak. People may want to level fast to join up with their already high level friends or not caring too much to stop and smell the roses...that's entirely up to them. How they feel thereafter is not for me to assume.

For most MMOs nowadays, the endgame is about instance raids or PvP over and again. That pretty much it. It's just not profound. That's the reason why people leave to go elsewhere - to find the same thing and rinse repeat.

Istaria don't really have an endgame, which is the reason why some folks stayed on for so long. To me, I still haven't been to most places in this game and I have been around.

Personally, I don't know a single player that quit Istaria for the lack of endgame challenge. I can say that if PLing didn't exist substancially here, many would have left because Istaria is a lot about grind. Crafting especially. With help from a 100 miner/gatherer one could level plenty schools in quicktime, and this helps a lot of folks from getting burned out.

I actually thought what it would be like if VI does some marketing, in which a subscriber (new or current) can pay a one time only promotion of $25 and get 100 levels free - choiced biped schools only (maybe 50 levels for dragon?). New players don't feel so gimped - some older players get there quicker - Lots of level 100 noobs running about looking for gear and the learning curve is still very steep. This don't bother me any. A one schooler don't amount to much at high end and I rather have more players around. Vi makes some mulah, maybe buy some art and stuff.

[Nambroth]

I've only known about two types of 'powerleveling' for adventure in Istaria. The first being someone new or on their 'first' time through the game of a higher level helping someone of a lower level to gain experience via means others have described above (healing, grouping to share experience, or a combo of the two). This I have no problem with it as long as it does not effect anyone else, I think that sometimes maybe the new player could miss out on content if they are being excessively power leveled, but for a level or two... I'm not sure it's hurting anything at all.
The other type of powerleveling I've personally seen is the above scenario, but with an experienced player's alt. I have seen this done NOT to 'finish the game' but to either increase the level or ascend the player in the case of dragons, for RolePlay reasons. In this case I don't see any problem with it at all.

Quite honestly if it keeps someone's interest in the game, does not effect other players, and gets people to group up to hunt, if anything it sounds like the players might have a fun time doing it.

[Dhalin]

Shian:

There are extremes and middle-grounds in every debate.

Yes, it is good to get SOME help, but it is detrimental to get everything handed to you.
Yes, it is good to do SOME grinding yourself, but too much is too much.

It is all about finding the happy middle-ground, and I agree: The teens ARE very rough. I had a very hard time getting my first school (blacksmithing) past the late-teens. Bronze stuff was taking way too long to level and Iron stuff was too hard to gather. Oddly enough, I didn't have that trouble in the transitions through the other tiers, and sailed through to 100, and now the other schools, if done in the right order, won't be as hard.

I dunno why, but T1 > T2 is the hardest transition around. T2 > T3 doesn't seem anywhere near as hard.

As far as cheapening the experience... leveling Alts or other schools is fine; they "earned" that right. They already have a max-level character/school. I'm talking about someone who JUST joined last week, running around with a Lv80+ character... it tends to grate on my nerves a little. *shrugs* But then that's just me.

But if someone who has been a year+ in the game, levels an alt and gets said alt up quickly... that doesn't bother me really.

[LOVWYRM]

It seems I only have seen people pvl their own alts.
Do you think we have lots of those beginners here, who expect us to pvl them?

I remember when Lovwyrm and Flameus where young(^^) and all our guildies were having fun on Elnath. We had tough rules in our guild- and who wants to be called a leecher (though we did not know what that means then- it sounded like a curse^^) we just were lonely little dragons (at that time we could not affort a second comp- so we even could not play together).
Not that our guildies have not been helpful and wonderful- they all were!!
But its something else to have to stay at home alone, and see what is happening outside. One day our guild-uber decided to take us with him to Elnath- not only once- often-and we were the happiest dragons in Horizons.
We learned a lot- which was useful for the future- and the game was fun instead of scourge again^^ It took us 2 years to become ancient- though we got some levels with that hunts.

Later when we started again on chaos- not knowing if we shall ever get our Unity chars back- we had a crisis about lvl 70.
Good souls gave us that 5 level we needed to be fresh again,
and the last levels to 100 we made in blights with full groups.
Besides is was fun- it was the base of long term friendship with those who helped us. With most (even from Unity) we are still friends ingame and irl.

[Riaken]

I said in another post how i would throw CoT on my gf's toon to help her lvl. But I realized she gained help with levels another way from me. I made her a lvl 91 cloth suit with +20 armor and Crush ward/Resistances on it. Granted she had a craft that was lvl 100 and an AU of 910.
Gave her a bunch of lvl 100 xstals for her tool and bought her pots for crush Resistance. She had Ethereal Paroxysm and druid AoE spells teched and showed her a spot in the Bitter Pickle to lvl. Level a mage to 91 and you can do same thing with Ice/Flame/Energy bomb.
She now has a rating of 126 in a matter of 2 weeks. She got 6 classes to lvl 60-70. My point is that no one wants to wack a mob one on one and wait for full health to do it again. I had to at launch when I made a Cleric, it was grueling. I was in love with the game then and would do anything to get farther in it.
Now adays people don't have the time to play catch up with rating 200 plus peeps. There was a bug with the chests in Stormy March and I watched alot of people I never seen b4, probally new to game, level their toons off of lvl 90 chests.
Those I just talked about exploited a flaw in game, or took advantage of an opportunity. I took an advantage of an opportunity at the Bitter Pickle by making a suit resistant to the damage of the ghosts at the BP.
It's a thin line bending the rules in mmo's and breaking them, but it's **** fun when you get away with it.

[Sunuke]

I personally think there are 2 types of power leveling.

1. Using a high level player to either get throphies or to kill mobs way over your capabilieties. For example 550 trophies per level range or standing around in a dungpile in DD watching someone else kill the maggots

2. Getting xp by using the legal possibilities in a game in such way you gain xp very fast. For example As lvl 20 with a rating of 40 killing lvl 40 monsters.

Of course, these are just some adventure options.

In craft there also are plenty of ways to powelevel.

Grind your way up on miner and use the processed resources to level a school without making items that are used in that school.
For example making tools for fitter.

Another option would be having a high level character dig up alot of resources and then process these eventhough there will be alot of waste.

I think that either of these ways of leveling are fine to use. Personally I think that the people who have issues with this way of leveling generally can't stand the fast progress because they do not have the capabilities or are too selfrighious to let someone else enjoy the game in their own way.

Of course in this case there are many other options.