Interdependance. Your doing it wrong.

[Knossos]

Seems to me that changing one of those craft quests to crystals would add a possibility to biped need dragon side of the discussion, and if cotton is the one replaced, it also would remove a dragon needs biped one.

Knossos

[awdz]

here's a thought... i really detest the fact that although my gnome can make draconic celebration cake, she cannot eat it even after it is sliced up - but other bipeds (saris, sslik) can. since it's got a tough meat core, it would make sense to me that it would take a strong dragon claw to slice it up (i.e., only dragons - not sslik or saris, nor dragons who are too low level - can break the cake into slices) but then anyone could consume the slice and get the glow.

that would interject the need for a dragon in order to use the item and make it friendlier for all at the same time. that sort of thing is something i would consider a step in the direction of better interdependency.

requiring limited populations to seek out items without having them able to contribute back at similar levels is too one-sided. having specialty items that exclude portions of the population when said populations can freely exchange nearly everything else (e.g., chocolate mice for saris & sslik but not other bipeds) without the balance of putting in other items for the other portions of the population can cause feelings of exclusion and frustration as well.

mostly i think there's been an outstanding job done with the overall game design, which is why some of these littler things stand out. i would kind of like to see dragons running around to help bipeds a little more, much like they did with the plague. most people love to be helpful; bipeds can help dragons a lot, how about letting dragons help bipeds more?

[Dhalin]

The Rune Stylus requirement was removed from the Khutit Form quest?

That's cool, that does make things better, now...

Now if only dragons could roast their own food.. lol. (joking.. well, half joking)

[Nambroth]

Now that I think about it, I've got no problem making a Dragon-version of the Militia quest. *adds it to the task list*

That's really cool of you to do. Thank you.

[Takora Drakan]

Nice to see that the rune stylus was finally removed, now only to remove/change the

Glass vials (AROP Ink Quest)
Mithril Rune Stylus (AROP Ink Quest)

required for those quests. Without them a dragon can not get ancient. Unless that was also changed and not written in the patch notes. Simply change it that a dragon has to bring a scalepack and a dragon claw, or something that a dragon can craft.

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Nice to see that the rune stylus was finally removed, now only to remove/change the

Glass vials (AROP Ink Quest)
Mithril Rune Stylus (AROP Ink Quest)

required for those quests. Without them a dragon can not get ancient. Unless that was also changed and not written in the patch notes. Simply change it that a dragon has to bring a scalepack and a dragon claw, or something that a dragon can craft.

I would not go that far on to asking so many changes to old quests. One thing is for sure. By lore, dragons are rediscovering (lairshaping and ancient) their old ways. Even at the imperial outpost it is mentioned of a discovery of a cave where very important history for dragons has been discovered.

Due to all the redicovery it is understandable that dragons may need to find other methods to achive what they once used to do.

Please keep in mind the reason I made this thread was for more quests (i did mention not the exclusives) that BOTH bipeds and Dragons can do that require the community to participate (like the militia quest i mentioned) to be equal for both dragons and bipeds to help eachother. thus the list having MORE dragon items that bipeds cannot make (adding more armor scales, claws or even xtals on the list)

The main point of the thread is just that. have dragons given a chance to be asked for to get quest done as they seek bipeds to get quests done to make it mutual.

[LOVWYRM]

Again, I totally agree Zanukk.

Amon, I see the good will- but making a militia- questline for dragons
does not solve the prob we are talking about in this thread.
And thus I do not support this idea. But thy anyway for listening and thinking for solutions together with us.

( "then don`t do them" Are you sure you could bare the sad look on our dragon faces, cause we cant`t get a mighty ability like hero`s resolve- which was ment for all races- only because we cant deliver some !"§$ mithril platemails, greaves, boots and mauls??
you can`t- I`m sure )

[Shian]

I find it kind of saddening that the rune stylus is removed. By lore, it had a reason to exist: To ruin the biped tool instead of the dragon's claw.

The soft spot with it has always been not just the fact that dragons depend on it for their growth, but there was never a reciprocal for it. That is, bipeds have no great need for a dragon's work in kind.

We were spoon fed the idea that the need for the stylus was "Interdependence" yet no fact or evidence of that existed, creating a great rift.
It still dosen't and now the instead of trying to heal the "dragon vs. biped" by actually incorporating interdependence as we were originally told, it is simply removed. Would it not be easier to just add in a few things instead of take away?

During Drulkar's Wrath, an NPC asks for violet lattice to become a filter for a primary buffer... something. My dragon didn't understand what it was talking about, so she quit listening :P That was a great idea! Can't players use dragon resources to build some little thingamajig?

I still fully support the OP and the original idea of interdependence where we need to rely on each other instead of this one way street.

[Veruliyam]

The attunement to Aroah's Leap requires either cotton or the slaying of Blizzard.

Blizzard?!?! A rating 65 ice golem for a tier III?!?!?

I'm a bit flummoxed that characters of level 40-59 need to hunt a rating 65 critter.

[Tcei]

I agree with many things that have been said in this thread, I'd love to see bi-peds depend on dragons for items in quest as much as we dragons depend on bi-peds for items in our quest.

I also agree that simply removing quest that require a bi-peds help doesnt solve the issue; especially not when you (the devs) have been mentioning over and over how you want there to be interdependence between the dragons and the peds.

[Guaran]

... Now lets go to a newer quest. One recently plopped out to keep all those high lvl chars busy for a while..... Hmm one in delgarath. the chain for the unsung hero quest. You might know the one. The one many dragons are stuck on because your given a list of things the militia needs.

Now this is what gripes me, is to have a list that is 90% biped 10% dragon. infact i can safely say 99% biped 1% dragon.

in or around 10 biped armor pieces needed. 2 biped weps needed. 1 dragon spell that can be made by spellcrafters any ways. 1 dragon scale , 20 chicken supreme foods and 20 scones..

To be fair, the entrance to Dralnok's Doom was 100% lairshaping. So the ped's couldn't get in until we (Dragon's) finished it. Lots of t5/t6 in it as well.

I am glad to see that RoP had the minor change so that biped dependence was removed. Shian mentioned it had a lore reason (not mess up your talon), but I think that could be easily solved by using a crystal instead of the stylus. Find 1 focused radiant azulyte, or the violet, etc. Same idea could apply to the ARoP and the Mithril Rnue Stylus used there.

[Shian]

To be fair, the entrance to Dralnok's Doom was 100% lairshaping. So the ped's couldn't get in until we (Dragon's) finished it. Lots of t5/t6 in it as well.

Moot point as we needed the bipeds to process the resources better than 5:1. DD was actually a good example of interdependence. Everyone pitched in gathering. Bipeds processed base at 3:1, dragons processed the lairshaping materials at opt. On my team, we had 4 bipeds reach 100 in crafting and two dragons. At least, that's what I saw. Not sure what the other teams had going on.

[Vahrokh]

Either way, yeah.. The "interdependence" is a bit out of whack, but.. bipeds have the harder game to play. Being a (melee) dragon is essentially "easy mode". So, the game's just off balance between bipeds and dragons as a whole, and I'm not sure we'll ever see that fixed.

This one sided-ness is since game release, when Gold Rage (aka a very, very debatable I win button design choice) was not even planned to exist.

Know what? The only way to keep up when hoard was self-consuming was to get a smith or a leatherworker produce stuff for you for several hours a day (!).
A part in the ARoP (not sure it's changed now) was biped-crafted.
In ROP, sure, you could ignore Kuthit form... and get ZERO parties willing to take you with them, back in the day.

Now, it's true you don't need to grow adult nor ancient but then it's not *needed* to feel interested to still play the game if you are castrated in your early growth forever.
Hatchies cannot even do the most basic thing: fly. Without it, it's like playing an AFK mode (such is the interactivity of playing pre-adult dragon) biped that cannot even show some gear.

its the fact, that I have absolutely nothing to give in return

We used to be much required when Zymosis happened.

The biped revolt made so that it was the last time dragons had something "to give".

I still recall the accusations to us to be "plotting" not to cure them, to gloat while they were dying and so on...

Due to all the redicovery it is understandable that dragons may need to find other methods to achive what they once used to do.

This is what I love of Dragon Age (and Baldur's gate etc.) so much: you get role play choices.

What if I happen to be Lunus? And HATE to consort with bipeds? For sure, in our draconic knowledge maybe we lack the latest shiz about Drulkar, but we are not so imbecile not to figure out about how to create a stylus.

[Takora Drakan]

I would not go that far on to asking so many changes to old quests. One thing is for sure. By lore, dragons are rediscovering (lairshaping and ancient) their old ways. Even at the imperial outpost it is mentioned of a discovery of a cave where very important history for dragons has been discovered.

So messing with a quest that was introduced after the ROP, which was introduced about after a few months after the launch is okay, but not with a quest that is not as long as this ingame? Your point is quite moot there with the "old quests".

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

So messing with a quest that was introduced after the ROP, which was introduced about after a few months after the launch is okay, but not with a quest that is not as long as this ingame? Your point is quite moot there with the "old quests".

By what i get, your lunus, rp as a lunus, detest bipeds. Fine and all i rp as one also but lets reason here.

The Khutit quest. was offered by a dragon that required a stylus. ok that was taken out and it quite makes sence as it served no purpose for the quest.

Now the AROP. Look where your aiming at.

*spoilers*

a dragon tries to create the rune to get into the rift but fails. Mostly due to the fact that dragons are rediscovering their old ways. That said dragon sends you off to meet a detestable fiend.

it is the fiend who asks you for the vial and the same fiend asks you for the stylus. Now what would that said biped need a dragon claw to create a rune for.? It does not follow the lore given to us.

that part of the quest is one of the most iconic and memerable. why change it. because if they decide to change it then that means they need to eliminate that npc giving the quest and make a new npc and create a new line of the quest.

I find it funny you bring that up but completely omit the part where you need to go to the tower of healing and ask a biped to purify your soul. of course you have to wait 5 min and dont need nothing made.


end spoiler*

Why did i post this thread in the first place ? I belive i made myself clear in various post that my rant was not AIMED at quests that are for only one side. bipeds or dragons. My rant was to be aimed at the SHARED quests that both bipeds and dragons do thus the militia quests serve as a perfect example.

All im ranting about is that dragons and bipeds get = dibs on to contribue to the community via those quests. the list of the 3rd unsung hero quest was the example i used that half of those items should have been made that bipeds make the other half that dragons make , thus both contribue to the community in whole and does make interdependence where it should be.

As from this point on can the devs think about that when they create new quests in the future. Sorry but i love the arop as it is, it needs no changes.

[LOVWYRM]

I agree again, Zanukk.

^^and btw: A dragon who never met that !"§$% elf..
well,its a test if the ancient- to -come- is able to control its temper
We can be proud, that Akhanis is still alife.
Self control is dragon`s first name^^

[Dracaena]

I agree again, Zanukk.

^^and btw: A dragon who never met that !"§$% elf..
well,its a test if the ancient- to -come- is able to control its temper
We can be proud, that Akhanis is still alife.
Self control is dragon`s first name^^

*hands Lovwyrm new glasses* It's a fiend, you can tell by the blue.

*flies off before Lovwyrm has time to react*



Dracaena

[LOVWYRM]

yes yes- make jokes about handicapped dragons^^

*feels around for her guide-dog*^^

[Takora Drakan]

Stop molesting me Lov. :P

xD

[LOVWYRM]

*sigh* miss you much, Goldie!