Adventure Dragon Build

[skott_karlsson]

Hello,
I have returned and made a dragon. I've decided with my play style an Adventure type of dragon would suit me well and I need some help in building a good melee type of dragon. I've been reading through the threads and there is not much info that is more up to date so I thought I would ask here.

At this point my dragon is Lvl Adv13 and Dcra8 and has not spent training points yet. I'm currently running him through Gerix's Adventure Quests in Kion. I've read that there are many ways to spec a dragon depending on one's preference. For low level dragons I've seen some suggest half points in TnC and half in Strength and some suggest something more mixed like spread through Str, Primal, TnC, and Health. I even saw one post recommending two points in Primal for every level. I even spoke to one player in game who has his specced as a dragon tank.

At this point I think I want a well rounded melee dragon. Obviously any dragon will have spells thrown in as well but I'm not sure which is the best way to spec him. He needs to be able to dish out some damage as well as take damage.

I'm hoping current dragon players will give me some pointers and possibly share their dragon builds as well and talk how well they work for what they use them for. I imagine other new dragon players would find this thread useful too.

P.S. Thanks in advance for any help/advice

[Chasing]

http://www.crimson-dawn.org/index.php?p=30

Some info buried in the above link.

[Guaran]

Max out the tooth&claw training points, then split the rest 1/3 into primal, 2/3 into evasion. Primal is good for the self buffs and heals, and for primal attack spell + debuff spells, which improves the melee damage. Makes a good strong survivable dragon. You can always adjust the points around later.

[skott_karlsson]

My dragon is level 20/15 now and I thought I'd add some thoughts about building a Adv dragon. I'm in no way an expert. Just a newb providing some feedback to my own post in case other newbies care to read it. I'm always open to discussion by more learned playmates as well so feel to add or chime in if you wish.

TnC, Str, and Primal seem to be the big three as far as where to put points in the beginning levels. This through my experiences so far and talking to other players. How much in each is a bit harder to nail down.

Primal: One thing people keep telling me is that for the RoP I need to have 200 base primal. I placed 75 into my dragon so far and that's been enough to meet the minimum for RoP.

Also I'm told for crafting levels many are suggesting 2 points of primal for every level you are. This will help in dragon crafting (you must have 20dcra for RoP). It makes it easier to craft the spellshards you will need to make to get your dcra up. It will also give you the points needed for making dragon scales for your level as you gain the abilities.


Str and TnC are extremely helpful for melee. These are the ones where it will help you in melee and dishing out damage. Dex helps too but its not quite as helpful. Dex is what improves the chance to land a hit. I haven't done anything with dex and my draggy has done pretty good so far considering how weak dragon hatchlings are in this game.

Two points into Primal and remaining points divided into TnC and Str per level is probably a pretty good way to build a dragon in the early levels. After doing that anything leftover put into Dex and maybe either evasion or possibly health if you feel you need it.

Buffs: These are extremely important for a dragon. You can get buffs by automatically gaining a certain level and you can also get them through Dragon Adv quests. In no particular order; True Grit, Determination, Dragon's Gift, Promote Vitality, Primal Attack, and Arcane Refusal. Get these six buffs as quickly as you can and keep them actively going at all times when adventuring as they will make killing a mob much easier. Remember dragon hatchlings are weak compared to the mobs in this game and you need every bit of help as you can get.

[Guaran]

..Also I'm told for crafting levels many are suggesting 2 points of primal for every level you are. This will help in dragon crafting (you must have 20dcra for RoP). It makes it easier to craft the spellshards you will need to make to get your dcra up. It will also give you the points needed for making dragon scales for your level as you gain the abilities.

Primal skill has no direct impact on crafting. The only reason I can think someone would recommend this in regards to crafting is to be able to use the spells which are self buffs, as soon as the level requirement permits. Example: Promote Vitality II requires level 29, 290 base primal skill. However this recommendation is based on old information, and is pretty much no longer needed. Dragons now get 9 primal/level, vs the 7 or 8 skill /level it used to be. Coupled with the primal mastery quests you can do every 10 levels (which apply to base), it comes out to 10 primal skill/level which matches both Promote Vitality and Promote Intellects requirements. Basicallly put 30 tps ( 10 skill worth ) into primal, and you are set on being able to use the self buffs as soon as your level allows. Or wait till level 30, do the primal mastery quest for that level, and you are set. The 10 skill via training points gets you these buffs 1 level sooner. Putting 2 tp's per level isn't really a good recommendation as far as crafting goes.

Two points into Primal and remaining points divided into TnC and Str per level is probably a pretty good way to build a dragon in the early levels. After doing that anything leftover put into Dex and maybe either evasion or possibly health if you feel you need it.

This is still a good balance, so you can use the debuffs on mobs which make your attacks more effective. Just not needed for crafting as you were told.

Buffs: These are extremely important for a dragon. You can get buffs by automatically gaining a certain level and you can also get them through Dragon Adv quests. In no particular order; True Grit, Determination, Dragon's Gift, Promote Vitality, Primal Attack, and Arcane Refusal. Get these six buffs as quickly as you can and keep them actively going at all times when adventuring as they will make killing a mob much easier. Remember dragon hatchlings are weak compared to the mobs in this game and you need every bit of help as you can get.

Buffs are quite important. You forgot to mention Promote Intelllect and Ignore Mysticism. The very first tier of dragon buffs are pretty minor, but they get quite useful past that.

I mentioned earlier Promote Vitality II, which can be used as early as level 29, and gives +42 Strength, +42 Dexterity. Also at level 29, Promote Intellect II can be used which gives +42 Power, +42 Focus.

All together, these 2 self buffs grant: +4.2 skill to every craft skill. Can be useful when right at the edge of being optimal on something. At level 89 when you get the Tier V versions, +11.4 to every craft skill.

[Dracaena]

Also I'm told for crafting levels many are suggesting 2 points of primal for every level you are. This will help in dragon crafting (you must have 20dcra for RoP). It makes it easier to craft the spellshards you will need to make to get your dcra up. It will also give you the points needed for making dragon scales for your level as you gain the abilities.

Please tell me you are doing something besides spellshards to level craft with. Just making resources is a poor way to level craft. Spell making and deconning is good, scale crafting and deconning is good. Best (most efficient) experience gains will be with a formula that is optimal close to your current skill level. Be that spellcraft if you are turning those spellshards into spells or scalecraft if you are making scales.


Dracaena

[Shian]

Also, after level 20, don't bother making spellshards (hooray!) Instead use metal compounds until 100.

It's also of my opinion that making scales and deconning with metal compounds is not worth the xp vs. the time it takes to make the compounds. You're better off just gathering more resources. Sell the compound metal bars for cash instead on the connie or directly to a plot holder/lairshaper.

[skott_karlsson]

Please tell me you are doing something besides spellshards to level craft with. Just making resources is a poor way to level craft. Spell making and deconning is good, scale crafting and deconning is good. Best (most efficient) experience gains will be with a formula that is optimal close to your current skill level. Be that spellcraft if you are turning those spellshards into spells or scalecraft if you are making scales.


Dracaena

Basically here is what I'm doing. Dig up sandstone slabs. Turn them into sandstone bricks. Then make blank sandstone spellshards. Keep doing this until inventory is full of blank spellshards which comes out to around 350 or so. Then go take and apply a spell formula to them. Been using Improved Fire Bolt I recently. Then deconstruct them all. Take remains and make the IFB I spellshard again. Deconstruct those. Rinse and repeat until nothing left. Then go back out and start gathering sandstone slabs again. Rinse and repeat again and again. Changing the spell for something higher as I level up. If there is a better way than that then I'm all ears.

Just today there was a discussion in the Dragon chat about keep using sandstone until craft level 30 because using slate is not that efficient from 20 to 30. Whether thats true or not I don't know. Those more experienced than me were saying so in chat so I'm sorta listening to what they are saying figuring they should know better than me.

[skott_karlsson]

And I forgot to mention that yesterday I picked up Promote Intellect I and using it as well. There is still alot i need to learn and am slowly picking things up as I go. I'm still a newb to this as far as I'm concerned and probably will be that way until I hit RoP and then maybe I can claim being a novice at that point.

[Guaran]

Basically here is what I'm doing. Dig up sandstone slabs. Turn them into sandstone bricks. Then make blank sandstone spellshards. Keep doing this until inventory is full of blank spellshards which comes out to around 350 or so. Then go take and apply a spell formula to them. Been using Improved Fire Bolt I recently. Then deconstruct them all. Take remains and make the IFB I spellshard again. Deconstruct those. Rinse and repeat until nothing left. Then go back out and start gathering sandstone slabs again. Rinse and repeat again and again. Changing the spell for something higher as I level up. If there is a better way than that then I'm all ears.

Just today there was a discussion in the Dragon chat about keep using sandstone until craft level 30 because using slate is not that efficient from 20 to 30. Whether thats true or not I don't know. Those more experienced than me were saying so in chat so I'm sorta listening to what they are saying figuring they should know better than me.

That's basically a good way to start. Always try to craft a spell you are just past optimal on. Making one below being optimal wastes resources. Blight Ward and then Fiery Strike are good forms for leveling with. Keep in mind that at the very beginning this can't really be helped unless you have a high adventure level.

The point where you switch from sandstone to slate depends on when you can start making slate bricks optimally. Get your adventure level to say 60, then get a set of obsidian craft scales. Chances are that would be enough to start on slate at level 20.

However once you switch to slate, you will also want to switch from spells to scales. strength and power scales are made of stone. spells tier 2 and up require orbs. metal tiers 3 and up require 2 ores to create. so using these gives higher exp, but takes alot longer to gather in right amounts.

Using spells or metal scales or even metal/stone scales to level on is do-able if you have silos all close together where you will be making the spells/scales. gather a single resource at a time, processing it, then store it in the silo. then gather next resource and process that. then combine the 2 doing the auto-decon, and burn thru it like you are doing with spells.

Chances are you will not have silos at your disposal, so its easiest to stick to single material items. and thats strength or power scales for tier 2 thru 5. make bricks, make scales-decon. repeat. Be sure you get several scale formulas since different ones require different skill levels (but not so much in the lower tiers with only head/wing/chest forms).

[skott_karlsson]

Thanks for the tips. No, silos will not be available to me so I won't be able to store vast amounts so better to stick to the single materials as you mentioned. At the moment I'm just trying to get my crafting level up to 20 just to catch it up to my adv level. I was thinking once I'am 20/20 I would maybe go out and get a couple of adv levels and then get a couple of crafting levels and sorta keep things evened up. I do not particularly enjoy crafting so not sure if I will do this or not continually. I'd hate to spend days and days just trying to get my crafting level up so maybe break it up with with adventuring and keep them close so I'm not doing one thing all the time. Again thanks for the advice.

[Morphaz Bladewing]

Using spells you are optimal at making is the worst possible way to level your crafting, at least for tier1. It has been proven with numbers over and over.

Always craft the spell that you are barely able to make. You will make less batches but get a hell lot more experience.

I know this particular topic is quite a battlefield between "math freaks" and those who have "always done it like that" but it's simply a fact that a more complicated formula gives far more experience than the increased quantity of a low level one could compensate.

[Racktor]

My adult dragon is a level 55 and can take down a level 80. I teched him with shared points in dexterity, sometimes TnC, strength, and health. I have all strength scales on too atm. lol

So if you plan to mainly use attacks, like i do, you could skill your dragon like mine.

[Guaran]

Using spells you are optimal at making is the worst possible way to level your crafting, at least for tier1. It has been proven with numbers over and over.

Always craft the spell that you are barely able to make. You will make less batches but get a hell lot more experience.

I know this particular topic is quite a battlefield between "math freaks" and those who have "always done it like that" but it's simply a fact that a more complicated formula gives far more experience than the increased quantity of a low level one could compensate.

Well, to put it simply you are mistaken. and it is quite easy (no math freak needed) to demonstrate.

Make 10 spells you are optimal on. Count the number shards it took to make 10, then subtract from that number the shards recovered in the decon. This is actual shards used. Then add up the exp from the crafting and the decon steps. Divide the exp by the number of shards used to get the exp/shard. Whatever you can craft to get this number the highest is best. Try the same experiment making something you are not optimal on. Exp is better per spell made, but the amount of recovered resources in the decon is much less, total shards used way higher. exp/shards will tell you the truth. Always get that number the highest.

Now if you call being able to add, subtract, and divide being a "math freak", then I will not argue with you. Craft what you want, how you want.

[skott_karlsson]

My adult dragon is a level 55 and can take down a level 80. I teched him with shared points in dexterity, sometimes TnC, strength, and health. I have all strength scales on too atm. lol

So if you plan to mainly use attacks, like i do, you could skill your dragon like mine.

Thanks for sharing Racktor. How did you do back when you were in your 20s? Did this path allow you to take down mobs of a higher level then as well? I ask because my draggy is 23 now and I have to be careful of mobs that are even my own level but then I'm speccing 2 prime points per level and then remaining points divided between TnC and Str.

[Frith-Rae]

Aye all this stuff is helpful..

I've often thought I was weak but can't figure out the "why"...I've got like..3/4 of the TnC bar filled, 1/4 in Primal bar, I've got like a ton of Strength (half bar I guess?), and then 1/4 of the Health Bar.

My battle-scales are like str scales triple teched with TNC/Health or more STR.

At level 90 I have trouble with most things near my level..just..not sure why. Though my scales are not level 90..level..70..whatever the last tier was...

[Shian]

If you are at 90 and using last tier (60) scales, that plays a huge factor.

I've also not heard of someone using Str scales with no armor on it before. What is your armor rating?

[Drakarr]

My build as a lvl 100 is 50/50% into T&C and strength. Scales are armor scales with T&C, Str, and Health on the non-socket ones. Sockets I have the health, armor, Str, T&C in the head.

I don't have all spells teched, just what I can with my 1000 base primal, which is quite a few of them.

With this setup I have no problem with most stuff in game just a few of the named on the very high end. I know it does well cause stuff other people have asked for help from me on I can do solo no problem, so I figure it works pretty well *shrug*

[Morphaz Bladewing]

Well, to put it simply you are mistaken. and it is quite easy (no math freak needed) to demonstrate.

Make 10 spells you are optimal on. Count the number shards it took to make 10, then subtract from that number the shards recovered in the decon. This is actual shards used. Then add up the exp from the crafting and the decon steps. Divide the exp by the number of shards used to get the exp/shard. Whatever you can craft to get this number the highest is best. Try the same experiment making something you are not optimal on. Exp is better per spell made, but the amount of recovered resources in the decon is much less, total shards used way higher. exp/shards will tell you the truth. Always get that number the highest.

Now if you call being able to add, subtract, and divide being a "math freak", then I will not argue with you. Craft what you want, how you want.

Here are some numbers. Hatchling with level 12 in craft, 156 spellcraft skill.

Brittle (50 min, 150 opt skill): 33.5 xp/shard

Burning Hands (130 min, 230 opt skill): 54,75 xp/shard

It would be even better if I had used a spell that required 150 skill.

[Zanukk Sytheclaw]

Here are some numbers. Hatchling with level 12 in craft, 156 spellcraft skill.

Brittle (50 min, 150 opt skill): 33.5 xp/shard

Burning Hands (130 min, 230 opt skill): 54,75 xp/shard

It would be even better if I had used a spell that required 150 skill.

i belive you mean per spell because if it be per shard. 300 spell shards on brittle would need 10050 exp which would push you way off. but well hard math we can work that out.

lets say toy have 300 spell shards:

Brittle will need at optimal 4 spell shards to create. because you are optimal you get 2 back.

burning hands will require 6 shards per spell and only get 1 shard back.

at your current 156 spell craft.

So brittle:

will give you 1675 exp for 200 spell shards you get exp for deconning and get 100 back leaving you with 200 more spell shards. thus another 1675 exp and getting even more exp from salvage and are left with 100 spell shards netting you 837 exp then salvage exp leaving you with 50 spell shards netting you 402 exp. and of course it keeps going.

without counting exp from salvage you get 1675+1675+837+402=4589 exp

burning hands:

will give you 2737 exp for the cost of 300 shards. you only get 50 shards back due to your horrible salvage rate. thus you can only make 8 more spells for 438 exp leaving you with 10 spell shards for 54.75 exp.

without counting exp from salvage you get 2737+438+55 (rounded) = 3230 exp.

now brittle would have gave you much more exp as it continues to give you half of the shards back thus 300 shards alone, including the fact you get more exp from salvaging on brittle then at burning hands due to the amount of shards returned to you. brittle can easy net you 7k exp or more exp including salvage while burning hands wont even reach 4k exp.

your just under the illusion you get more exp because of the big numbers you get on the first attempt. while at optimal you get less per attempt but can continue to get exp since you recieve half back of what you created which adds up. this is noticable even at lowbie lvls where to make 300 spell shards alone is a chore thus you want to get the best exp you can make thus Guaran is right. If you want me to really crunch numbers, by all means i will just to prove going at your optimal AT ANY LVL OF CRAFT is far superior than going for the bigges spell you can do non optimal. Because there are tons of spells you can use to work on you can easly find an optimal spell as you lvl up.