dear devs

[LOVWYRM]

pls put a money sink ingame. And do it fast-pls!

Give rich players a reason to go for coin. Give all of us a reason to earn money again.
You cannot change our mindset, that we give away things and services for free,
but you can make us think about doing this more carefully-if we are in need of coin.

We really have inflation- and there is no economy- and there will not be one.
Something has to be done.
I see players working hard to provide the community with something.
Rich players give rich players 2og for comps or service- so what? Its just a gesture- well- I prefer a hug^^

Here is an idea-and pls add your ideas and thoughts:
(and yes I know its originally Phillip`s idea- but its worth to be discussed again)

Bring in expensive fluff stuff-
I would pay a lot for a "t6" purple pumpkin for my plots, or
a purple banner with a kapital "L" on it.
Or a red mural with a kapital "F" on it.
or a hedge with blossoms.
Or a frog in a pond in a helian chamber.
ASO

Make sure, this fluff is available in all tiers- so that players that are not rich, can affort a t1 version (tiny purple pumpkin eg^^)

enough said- you all know about that prob- what do you think??

[velveeta]

not to sound bitter or anything, but we had a perfectly grand money sink ingame, but she was banished to the void......

[Drakarr]

Great idea , I would also pay lots of moolah for some nifty fluff.

[Dakoren Ironhand]

not to sound bitter or anything, but we had a perfectly grand money sink ingame, but she was banished to the void......

True there Velveeta, Nadia.

[Morphaz Bladewing]

I absolutely love this idea!

Purchasable crystal/gem decorations for lair rooms are just another wonderful idea!

[neva]

Umm, not to sound against this, but--

Isn't the concept of Istaria suppose to be where we make 'everything' and don't require to actually go over and buy something cause we can't buy it?

That is the reason I know I play Istaria. I play it because I can make it, and I rather make it then having to actually buy it.

You also have consumers, which are the people who don't like crafting,and you got the group of people who love to make and rather do it themselves.
I tend to buy stuff I can't get and I tend to make stuff for people to buy.

The really big issue we have is not the fact the money isn't there, oh the money is there, but you people sometimes tend to be a bit greedy on the cosigner end.
I Mean really-- who is going to buy a formula to make a spell for like-- 200 copper?

You learn that sometimes when we have no economy in the game that it is better to sell low then high. It helps people get stuff, it makes it easier on new players to get stuff, and it shows we are not a bunch of greedy sobs.
I can understand cargo discs being 500 or backpacks being 200, but some of this stuff I see being sold I just have to roll my eyes at for the price they are asking for.

So honest, I find this idea a bad one, and if you got a problem with not having enough coin, then go kill some blight, go out and do some crafting and actually /help/ bring in some economy into the game so you can actually fill your coin purses with some silver.
Oh yeah, there is also the Trophy Hunter's where two 500 copper gains equal 1 silver. Now imagine all the stuff you could buy with 1 silver if people stop pricing stuff high.

So, yeah, no.
I don't like this idea and I don't approve of it.

-- END --

[Frith-Rae]

Long as there's the cheap tier1 version for those of us who are not rich, and will probably never be rich..that's fine.

At least with Nadia if you didn't have the money you could farm the objects yourself. So I'd say the same with "expensive money sinks for fluff" long as there's some cheaper version that's cool.

[Dhalin]

They should have just left Nadia in the game, to be honest.

Nadia's prices were set high enough that people would very much like to buy their comps from fellow players who could easily undercut her.

Her prices were also high enough, that anyone seeking to make several pieces of armor/weapons/scales would be tempted to farm at least the easier-to-get pieces, to avoid the high prices.

However, those who aren't good at farming said comps, had an _option_ to gain some of these comps that are, quite honestly, very dang hard to get ahold of. Everyone was happy.

THEN, the Devs decided to remove her, against the players' wishes.

I question their motives on that one, to be honest. Now, it can be very difficult (near impossible?) to obtain some ingredients to make tech'd gear, especially since they love throwing comps that involve WA mobs into the most popular techs that people actually use often, especially dragon ones.

Seems like _all_ T&C/Strength techs involve either WA or Insta-Respawn mobs, and the new Tech kits are no exception to the rule, either.

I foresee myself having to resort to T3-tech'ing T5 equipment because the T4s/T5s are just too hard to get, and there's _never_ any of the right kind up on the consigners. I buy them when I can find them, but I Still don't have enough for a single Triple-T5 item... yet, I checked all of the consigners quite regularly, and still have yet to come up with a single one.

At least with Nadia, I could grind up some coin and eventually get them........

[awdz]

For myself, I personally do not care if Nadia is there for me to buy comps from, I can never really afford her. That said, I do not like the frustration others seem to have at not being able to get the comps they want more readily when they have coin to spend.

It's like the tier I frustration about getting proper supplies... not enough folks supplying the demand, so the vendor of refurbished gear was put in. Nadia's wares were not second rate but her prices were sky high, so folks looked for player sales first.

*chuckles* Besides, Nadia was someone everyone loved to hate, claiming she was really a Withered Aegis agent... Who do we focus that on now?

[LOVWYRM]

I did not dare to bring up the Nadia-thing again
thats why I sugested the fluff- thing.
Anyway-money needs to get out of the pockets- I do not care how.
Its worth nothing atm- there is nothing to buy.

Dhalin*blush* I still don`t know if you play on order.
If yes- contact me for comps.

[Dhalin]

I did not dare to bring up the Nadia-thing again
thats why I sugested the fluff- thing.
Anyway-money needs to get out of the pockets- I do not care how.
Its worth nothing atm- there is nothing to buy.

Dhalin*blush* I still don`t know if you play on order.
If yes- contact me for comps.

I do, but it is sparsely. I've had a lot on my plate lately, and tend not to have a Lot of time to spend in-game.

I'm lacking some of the Techs themselves, and even if I had those, I don't have full scalecraft scales to make some of the T5 scales triple-tech'd. Heck, a couple of them I can barely make the bare scale, and that's only if I use a t5+ machine.

But, if I happen to see you around or vice-versa or somethin', we could see if we could work something out. I suppose for now, my dragon does OK in battle, not the best, but good enough I can gain levels.

I was more speaking for others in a similar position as me -- needing the stuff, but have a difficult time getting it. Surely I'm not the only one of this type? *Shrugs*

[Frith-Rae]

Oh no Dhalin, not at all.

I was in chat the other day someone was lamenting hunting a mob for TWO WEEKS without a single-tech-ingredient drop they needed.

Its one of the reasons I've put adventuring on hold for two years, I'm level 90 but I last updated my adv. teched scales at either 70/80 (yea I've been 90 for at least a year or so lol). Because the idea of hunting equal and above level critters for me with below par gear gives me cramps! I already know each fight is going to be hard for me (its a crap shoot as to wether I can win against equal level critters in a solo fight at any time - forget deadland mobbing) and I know that I'm going ot be farming frustration-fighting for weeks to get everything.

So I login and craft; because the idea of having to replace all my triple-teched level 70/80 scales with 90/100 equivalents (at least) makes me want to roll over and die.

I'll prolly get around to it eventually - but it something i AM NOT looking forward to (killing tier I/II animals is hard enough with the engine issues for me).

And that's sad. You really shouldn't have a huge chunk of the game that people dread doing simply because the farming is so horrible for drop rates.

5 hours for 5 tech parts - that's fine. 20 hours for 1 or 2 is ridiculous.

[LOVWYRM]

*shouts* Nadiaaaaaa- can ya hear us?????

[Vortura]

If you're all having such a hard time hunting for comps, how come I never see any posts on the Order part of the boards asking for them?

If the folks who can hunt these comps don't know there's a demand, how are we supposed to know that we need to supply them?

I don't craft, so if I want something built on my plot, I'll find someone who can build and pay them to do it for me. I won't stand around complaining that crafting is too hard or boring for me and plead for the devs to add a magical crafting NPC that will sell me Novians.

[Shinkuu]

Umm, not to sound against this, but--

Isn't the concept of Istaria suppose to be where we make 'everything' and don't require to actually go over and buy something cause we can't buy it?

That is the reason I know I play Istaria. I play it because I can make it, and I rather make it then having to actually buy it.

You also have consumers, which are the people who don't like crafting,and you got the group of people who love to make and rather do it themselves.
I tend to buy stuff I can't get and I tend to make stuff for people to buy.

The really big issue we have is not the fact the money isn't there, oh the money is there, but you people sometimes tend to be a bit greedy on the cosigner end.
I Mean really-- who is going to buy a formula to make a spell for like-- 200 copper?

You learn that sometimes when we have no economy in the game that it is better to sell low then high. It helps people get stuff, it makes it easier on new players to get stuff, and it shows we are not a bunch of greedy sobs.
I can understand cargo discs being 500 or backpacks being 200, but some of this stuff I see being sold I just have to roll my eyes at for the price they are asking for.

So honest, I find this idea a bad one, and if you got a problem with not having enough coin, then go kill some blight, go out and do some crafting and actually /help/ bring in some economy into the game so you can actually fill your coin purses with some silver.
Oh yeah, there is also the Trophy Hunter's where two 500 copper gains equal 1 silver. Now imagine all the stuff you could buy with 1 silver if people stop pricing stuff high.

So, yeah, no.
I don't like this idea and I don't approve of it.

-- END --

Consider that some Forms would cost you 4+ Silver to buy from the Trainers so having them be sold for 200 Copper is ridiculously cheap compared to what you would otherwise have to pay.

I am fine with the idea of fluff coin sinks but the teleport coin sinks are murder on crafters who make next to nothing for all their work and usually end up just losing money rather than making it. Only adventuring gives you any real income.

I for one would love to upgrade my vault more than once but since I started working on my plot I have zip for cash trying to haul my disk loads over. I know I could try to bring it over in tiny loads but that would stretch a days project into a weeks project fast and while I do understand that Time Sinks are a part of PtP games it is a bit on the excessive side considering there are already more than enough Time Sinks.

[velveeta]

right on. nadia, and her kin for that matter, charged outrageous prices for everything that drops as well - forms, techs, and resources.
poor folk could make coin to buy forms, or farm them, or do a little of both. coin is really easy to make in istaria, what with all sorts of critters dropping it and coin purses, selling loot, etc.
getting the needed forms or resources by farming, that can take a long time......and if you only need one or 2 of the resources for a quick build, that's just another story......

yes i know i am beating a ded horse, the gods have spoken and i respect their decision, but if you are seriously looking for a perfect ingame money sink, my vote would be to bring back nadia.....

[Guaran]

On the original post for money sink: What the game realy needs are time sinks. Thats what keeps people playing longer, therefore paying longer.

A money sink would run counter to that because many players already have more money than they will ever need.

Bringing Nadia back also runs counter to this, because many players already have plenty of coin and they would never bother hunting for comps. And believe it or not most comps are not that difficult to obtain. It's much more satisfying to have earned your comps and therefore fancy teched gear than to buy it so easily. Nadia would hamper trade between characters. If you can't craft the gear yourself, buy gear or crafters services from another player. You can always start out with tier 3 techs on your mithril gear. Very easy to obtain usually. Then work up from there. Sure it takes more time, but yes, that is in fact the point. If you are a die hard crafter and not much for adventure, buy from others. This is better than nadia two-fold: You spend time earning coin to pay for the comps, the supplier spends time gathering the comps..

Yeah, can't say I support bringing nadia back, or typical money-sinks.

[Frith-Rae]

Time sinks? The game needs timesinks?! This game is NOTHING BUT time sinks! What?? Tell me anything in this game that isn't a grind - that doesn't take more time than it really should?

You spend time earning coin to pay for the comps, the supplier spends time gathering the comps..

HOw does the crafter who doesn't care to adventure make money to pay for the comps - at Nadia or the adventurer?

Same to Vortua.

How can players who don't spend literally *months* gathering their own comps afford to buy it from the players who do when the only way to make the money in game is to adventure in the first place? If I'm going to adventure to make money to buy comps, I'd just..uhh..kill the mobs that drop them to begin with?

This is the endless circle that we're stuck with in Hz. - that I think is a major problem that isn't goign away anytime soon. IMO, Adventuring for comps is a pain, mind-numblingly boring grindfest due to the poor droprates on many things - but free. Crafting to make money to buy those comps could very well take longer, even more mind-numbing (I can't think of anyone who crafts without doing somethign else at the same time) grind.

And no I don't think "many" players have "plenty" of coin. I think this is an assumption rich players make for whatever reason. I think many players have tidy little sums that would be all but wiped out, if not entirely wiped out, if they attempted to buy all their comp parts for a single set of crafted gear.

But then maybe I'm thinking adventure-players selling the tier V comp items would be asking a fair, and not extremely cheap, cost.

Nadia just offered a third option - if there was noone in game for two weeks selling what you were needing you could at least have the option to buy the items if you really didn't want to go farm them yourself. I rarely could afford her, and certainly couldn't now since I have been lairshaping for years - but it provided another option.

But time sinks? no...no that is not what this game needs. HA!

[Shinkuu]

Time sinks? The game needs timesinks?! This game is NOTHING BUT time sinks! What?? Tell me anything in this game that isn't a grind - that doesn't take more time than it really should?



HOw does the crafter who doesn't care to adventure make money to pay for the comps - at Nadia or the adventurer?

I think you summed that up nicely. Everything in the game is a time sink from having to learn a bajillion crafting classes to pick your nose properly (and with good efficiency) to the Number 1 Time Sink which is traveling from Point A to Point B. That one gets compounded by trying to avoid paying Tele fees and having to constantly go to this trainer or that trainer in various cities in order to get your classes changed instead of being able to do it on the fly or just being all the crafter classes you are all at once. (would get ugly doing that for Adv lol)

Also, yes, if you want to make money you NEED to adventure. Crafting is an absolutely wretched way to make cash. You end up spending more to make something than anyone is going to buy it for. If you craft for sale it is probably just for the fun or RP of it and mostly you just craft for yourself and friends. No one is getting rich off of crafting if they did the math.

Even at low level it is extremely true. I can go craft and make stuff I KNOW will sell and make about 1 Silver in half an hour...oooor...I could Adventure for that half an hour and make 2~8 Silver depending on drops with ease.

So yeah...Morale of the story is you CAN be any sort of crafter you like but you HAVE to be an Adventurer of some sort unless someone is going to take care of all your expenses and comp needs out of the kindness of their heart.

[Dhalin]

The only way I know of, to make money by not adventuring, is to mass-PB certain crafted materials.

I don't want to mention them, as I don't want to risk them getting nerfed, as it seems like they want us to adventure to get any money. Crafted armor/weapons don't sell for hardly anything, and have no market value beyond T1 and maybe T2, and not enough people are willing to pay for construction on plots/lairs, to satisfy all of the crafting-heavy players who need money.

So it comes down to this boring grind of making/selling certain bulk craftables on PBs.

Oh wait, they nerfed the PBs to make this harder, now we have to _cycle_ through PBs and hope nobody's doing the same item we are. Another Crafting nerf to make it more difficult for crafters to get money similar to adventurers, eh?

Basically, they are saying "Everyone must Adventure" and shrugging and walking away saying "Problem Solved" IMO.

Not everyone has maxed out adventuring levels and can farm tech comps. I don't know about Chaos, but on Order, I _still_ don't have enough tech comps to make up a whole set of T&C/Str/Dex scales... oh wait, I need a full set of Scalecraft scales before I can make aforementioned T&C/Str/Dex unless I can get someone else to make em for me...

If they would have let Nadia in the game, I could have those scales by now... if I didn't mind spending a few hundred hours selling things to PBs, that is.