dear devs

[Rrolf]

The only people in the game with too much money are high level characters. Bring back Gregory and have him sell T6 potions and scrolls made by the Archmage Darkstaff at high prices. Done right these would give the player a real edge in adventuring, which would give them the money they need to by more potions and scrolls. They can be farming for all the hard to get comps while they are out there.

The advantage of consumables is... they are consumed. Letting people have custom banners would be a one-time deal instead of a real money sink.

[AmonGwareth]

The only people in the game with too much money are high level characters. Bring back Gregory and have him sell T6 potions and scrolls made by the Archmage Darkstaff at high prices. Done right these would give the player a real edge in adventuring, which would give them the money they need to by more potions and scrolls. They can be farming for all the hard to get comps while they are out there.

The advantage of consumables is... they are consumed. Letting people have custom banners would be a one-time deal instead of a real money sink.

I agree with most of your post about consumables. They are good. Hence why we've made it a point of adding them over time... Food, Attuned Items, Keys, and now Scrolls.

But I categorically disagree that players need MORE edge in adventuring.

[Dhalin]

I agree with most of your post about consumables. They are good. Hence why we've made it a point of adding them over time... Food, Attuned Items, Keys, and now Scrolls.

But I categorically disagree that players need MORE edge in adventuring.

I agree.

I think players are powerful enough, in Capacity.

The capacity for people to be powerful enough, is way more than we need.

What we need, however, is to allow people to get their techs/forms a little easier, especially Tech Comps, to allow them to perform at high levels instead of throwing these brick walls in our faces.

I think Istaria would be a lot more fun if I didn't have to constantly worry about "how the heck am I gonna get comps for all of this crap!?" when I'm sitting there with my Lv100 crafter who can barely (or not at all) make some of my gear because I don't have a full set of Scalecraft scales, for example. So I need to make T4 Scalecraft scales so that I can get my Scalecraft high enough to make T5 Scalecraft scales, just to make T5 Battle Scales...

All the while, I need T4/T5 tech comps.. .... which I can't farm (due to me lacking any quality battle scales, 'cept one), and I hardly ever see for sale on Order connies.

[Frith-Rae]

And only a certain high level players have money..

As a level 90 "from original date" dragon - I've had about 400-500 silver on my character for years now. Since I've been lairshaping almost exclusively, and only putting things on my own plot (and not even three levels done lol), going on well..2 years..3 since lairs came out? It all runs together I don't even remember...

Yes, that's my choice - I could go out and try and kill stuff remotely near me for ABC frustration group, or I could spend weeks on end crafting those PB items for DEF frustration group (because its crafting..and my lair isn't building itself extremely slowly that whole time...)...

So while the statement 'Only high level players' are the rich ones may be true, its also only a certain type/number of high level players.

Hence my belief that the thought that "too many players/most/many" are rich is totally without basis in fact.

[Vortura]

Dhalin and Frith-Rae,

What comps do you need?

If you can answer that question for me, I will go on a little hunting trip for you.

You are most welcome to haggle over price (coin/resources/items) in PMs if you wish, otherwise I will just hunt the comps and put them on sale in Aug for my standard prices.

[Arietna]

might be nice for an NPC to offer tech components for crafted items at a certain exchange rate..

say you have an architect NPC who will trade tech components for basic building units, different tiers require different trades..

or one who wants cloth.. or well, you get the idea.. it means that those of us who craft by preference can still get components without having to dig out a sword and armour..

not sure if it would be workable or wantable in the current system though, but thought I'd throw the idea into the discussion...

I will be back one of these days..

[Teto Frum]

I'm ok with added fluff for coin sinks...but in saying that thats not the kinda stuff that interests me in a game so nothing I'd buy anyways so take my view for whats it worth.

To the Nadia stuff, the removal of Nadia is the one thing I really agree with of recent changes. Theres plenty of comp hunters available on order to get you anything you want, most charge reasonable prices and even those that want proper compensation are still well under Nadia. The other day I heard a complaint about comp prices on Aug connie from someone that routinely gripes about Nadia being gone.....the price in question 100 sp for Blue Vexes....well those were in the 385 sp range from Nadia so what good does bringing back Nadia do for that person who isn't willing to pay a player a quarter of that.

Most of these arguments all go back to two things playstyle and playtime. Just because you play a game your not entitled to everything available in the game. If you want an economy make one I routinely buy stuff I can make or can get off a guildmate for free. WHY? because I like rewarding people for getting their craft schools, enjoy the interaction with others and it fits nicely with my craft lazy RP. T5 top teched gear is the biggest time sink in game, it takes forever to get enough comps to tech everything, but it should, its end game equipment, its not a right of membership.

I know everyones gonna say "I don't have that kind of playtime" well some of us, due to unfortunate life circumstances do. So the game needs tailored to those with limited time as well as those with unlimited time. To me everything is available in Istaria to anyone who wants it, figuring out how you can get it is why we're all playing, but through trade of services, coin sale or just taking the time yourself(if you've got it), ive never come across anything in Istaria that I wanted I couldnt get. Recently took me three days of asking around to find a tech I needed, I couldve had someone else make what i wanted teched, but I preferred to wait on finding t, but find it I did.

Maybe I've got more patience than most but I don't see any problem with how much time it gets to t5 comps, it only raises the value of said equipment. The real problem in Istaria to me is that people didnt have a problem paying Nadia crazy prices but seem to think a player looking for even a quarter of what Nadia charged are viewed as crooks.

[LOVWYRM]

Teto- its indeed a question of patience too.
If I remember how long it took us to get all that scale sets, max. teched spells-well- it was years. And it was fun (most of the time^^) to hunt for that.

But we are talking about economy: Flame and me often are asked to make scale sets and spells- and we do that-np at all. And for free.
But all unteched, if comps are not delivered. We do not mind to gather the resources- but we do not hunt tech comps. You can`t pay us for that.
We do not need gold.What for? (and jfyi- I never had more than 3g-nor had Flame until he started playing his biped).
On the other hand- I bought that "cow-plot" in Heather 2x now-made an add. sub each time-planned it- but nobody there to help me build it.
Would have payed well..

Vortura, thy for all the comps you delivered us with- your prices are more than acceptable. Will give you a list within the next week- Flame`s biped will need a lot of stuff soon

Arietna, I like your idea very much!
Hope to see you back soon

[Teto Frum]

I guess a big part of boils down to who you know then and how you want to play. I think there is a fine economy in Istaria, as much as most games at least.

I generally speaking buy 100s of potions a month, I could get them for free but then a merchant who likes to make and sell potions doesn't get the business. You may provide those unteched scales for free but another toon may want that business to make coin, so all the free stuff that gets done in Istaria is why there is a lack of economy in Istaria. I both buy and sell comps, I buy and sell forms and techs. I sell low level tools and containers on the NT connie if there is none there from low level toons. I purchase and sell numerous times every week, there is an economy in Istaria as far as I'm concerned, might have taken a bit of effort to figure out who is part of it and what has demand, but anyone looking to make or spend coin has numerous ways I've found.

To the Heather plot, first I've heard about it, but I can say guild stuff we've put coin on gets done quickly and there's a couple builders in our guild always looking for paid work. If people want fluff items for a coin sink I'm fine with it, but lets not make it from a NPC lets make it from loot drops so players can be the ones selling them, other than comps, forms(techs) or trophies the absolute uselessness of Istarian loot is biggest reason the economy dried up. Just one half giants humble opinion.

[Ming]

I hated Nadia but she was useful to me. We don't have the big player base where hard to get comps are always available.

I'd like to see cool items also, maybe part as a drop and then you have to also pay to get the actual item. Like a formula for furniture????

And what about my gnome house. Yes, that is off topic but I have to bring it up every chance I get...

Cixi

[Guaran]

I'm ok with added fluff for coin sinks...but in saying that thats not the kinda stuff that interests me in a game so nothing I'd buy anyways so take my view for whats it worth.

To the Nadia stuff, the removal of Nadia is the one thing I really agree with of recent changes. Theres plenty of comp hunters available on order to get you anything you want, most charge reasonable prices and even those that want proper compensation are still well under Nadia. The other day I heard a complaint about comp prices on Aug connie from someone that routinely gripes about Nadia being gone.....the price in question 100 sp for Blue Vexes....well those were in the 385 sp range from Nadia so what good does bringing back Nadia do for that person who isn't willing to pay a player a quarter of that.

Most of these arguments all go back to two things playstyle and playtime. Just because you play a game your not entitled to everything available in the game. If you want an economy make one I routinely buy stuff I can make or can get off a guildmate for free. WHY? because I like rewarding people for getting their craft schools, enjoy the interaction with others and it fits nicely with my craft lazy RP. T5 top teched gear is the biggest time sink in game, it takes forever to get enough comps to tech everything, but it should, its end game equipment, its not a right of membership.

I know everyones gonna say "I don't have that kind of playtime" well some of us, due to unfortunate life circumstances do. So the game needs tailored to those with limited time as well as those with unlimited time. To me everything is available in Istaria to anyone who wants it, figuring out how you can get it is why we're all playing, but through trade of services, coin sale or just taking the time yourself(if you've got it), ive never come across anything in Istaria that I wanted I couldnt get. Recently took me three days of asking around to find a tech I needed, I couldve had someone else make what i wanted teched, but I preferred to wait on finding t, but find it I did.

Maybe I've got more patience than most but I don't see any problem with how much time it gets to t5 comps, it only raises the value of said equipment. The real problem in Istaria to me is that people didnt have a problem paying Nadia crazy prices but seem to think a player looking for even a quarter of what Nadia charged are viewed as crooks.

This.

Pretty much every post since my previous post and yours was people whining. About nadia and that time sinks are not needed...

Well I have to disagree because I know alot of people who don't have much to keep them busy in game these days. Something fun and fluffy that is a time sink would be great. Such as new lair rooms full of pretty gem covered walls, which requires a new dropped piece (doesn't use existing trophies or emerald chips, for example) from gem golems, say 20 each from three or so tiers of golems (in addition to all the normal lair room materials), and you get a nice crystal garden looking thing. That has no purpose but to look pretty. Implement similiar ideas and items for biped plots, armor crests (chestguards and shields), maybe even fancy looking cargo disks...

OMG NO a timesink! thats what the whole game is! Yeah, so what? If it's fun and results in a desired outcome, the more the merrier.

The arguments about nadia and "omg I've only ever had 500s for years.." are kinda funny. Your own argument lends no credence whatsoever to bringing Nadia back. Nor to putting in a money-sink. In fact they support a time-sink.

[Frith-Rae]

Most of these arguments all go back to two things playstyle and playtime. Just because you play a game your not entitled to everything available in the game. If you want an economy make one I routinely buy stuff I can make or can get off a guildmate for free. WHY? because I like rewarding people for getting their craft schools, enjoy the interaction with others and it fits nicely with my craft lazy RP. T5 top teched gear is the biggest time sink in game, it takes forever to get enough comps to tech everything, but it should, its end game equipment, its not a right of membership.

Oh I agree - I do this as well. I Buy most anything I need outside of teched/comped scales. Course given that I've not done more of LSing in the last few years I've not needed much; but I still peruse the connie and buy up scale/tech/craft reciepies I don't have. Being in a dead guild of course helps as I don't have that ready supply of people in guild chat to ask if they can make it for me - but I'd rather buy it anyway. Even with my limited supply in silver I know every little bit helps others - so if I CAN spend it I will!

However, its not just tier5 that "takes forever" relatively. I can remember hunting wolves for weeks (and not just me but groups of guildies at the same time, several hours a night for 2 weeks) to get four fangs or something back in Tier II. Any comp hunting is usually frustratingly long, grinding, and boring after the first few hours.

It would be one thing if say Tier I dropped one comp of whatever you needed ever 20-30 minutes, Tier II was 45-65, and go up from there. If I knew that in 2-3 hours a night I was at least pretty much garenteed to get 1-2 comp-components out of the what..dozens needed for a full scale set; even that would be something I knew I'd get to the end of in some time frame..lol.

But its quite another to hunt something for 15 hours and due to the low drop rate and bad luck you get absolutely zippo. There is no game live at the moment made since Hz launched that has this singluar grind factor to it. At least none that I think most would consider "successful" (small and niche or not :/).

And honestly I think that is my number one biggest problem with the game, outranking all else. Hence why I hates it so - seems just unnecessarily difficult/long/grind.

[Frith-Rae]

OMG NO a timesink! thats what the whole game is! Yeah, so what? If it's fun and results in a desired outcome, the more the merrier.

The arguments about nadia and "omg I've only ever had 500s for years.." are kinda funny. Your own argument lends no credence whatsoever to bringing Nadia back. Nor to putting in a money-sink. In fact they support a time-sink.

Sorry you feel we're all "whining" - personally I think its been a constructive discussion on what is still problematic about the game.

FYI - I'm not for putting Nadia back in because I think I could afford to use her. I'm about OPTIONS for those who want to be able to. If people think we need money sinks (again if you read what I said you'd realize that I don't believe at all we need money sinks in the first place), then I'd rather it be something OPTIONAL - than say something "required" for gain. Some of the money sinks mentioned are more about requiring you tos pend large sums of money to progress your character - I disagree with that.

For the record - I thikn all of you time sink suggestions are awesome. I'm all about more options and more "stuff" to get if its just an option added to what people can do. Lair rooms, pretty shiny things, different looking cargo disks - go for it! Put in those time sinks!

I was actually more protesting the idea of any more REQUIRED timesinks. Timesinks for pretty things - perfectly fine.

But to me, teched gear is pretty much a requirement - at least for dragons. I don't play a biped so I can't speak to that. Hence my "rant/whine" was more about the comp grind than anything else in game. If I'm a level 100 dragon in basic tier V uncomped/unteched scales, with an uncomped/unteched claw and spells - I'm not going to be able to really fight things my level in any type of efficient or even "fun" manner. Teched gear, for single classed dragons, is to me a "requirement" if you're going out hunting equal-level stuff.

I'm NOT for giant timesinks for needed ability quests, or basic crafting-needs, or even for general lairshaping (don't ge tme started on how stupid I feel LS grind is...).

But all your ideas I think would be awesome.

Just wanted to clarify what I *though* you meant by time sinks and what I meant by time sinks .

[Teto Frum]

Guaran I'm not sure exactly what you think I'm whining about since you basically echoed my stance.

I supported the open post for a coin sink though stated it doesn't interest me. Didn't even mention time sink once in fact to the contrary stated I've the time and patience for any grind Istaria has. Didn't once say I have coin problems, again to the contrary said I both make lots and spend lots and don't see a economy problem on my toon. Lastly you stated new and new uses for loot which I identified as one of Istaria problems is what you loot and what option s you have with the loot. I'm in Istaria as much as anyone time sink away I'm not going anywhere and my situation that allows me to play as much a day as I'd like isn't changing either. I'm just curious as to what you think I was whining about when we pretty much believe the samething.

[Shinkuu]

I hated Nadia but she was useful to me. We don't have the big player base where hard to get comps are always available.

I'd like to see cool items also, maybe part as a drop and then you have to also pay to get the actual item. Like a formula for furniture????

And what about my gnome house. Yes, that is off topic but I have to bring it up every chance I get...

Cixi

I agree with Furniture big time and I have to wonder where IS the Gnome house? It would probably be really neat with all sorts of...um...well...Sometimes working modern conveniences LOL!

[Shinkuu]

I'm ok with added fluff for coin sinks...but in saying that thats not the kinda stuff that interests me in a game so nothing I'd buy anyways so take my view for whats it worth.

To the Nadia stuff, the removal of Nadia is the one thing I really agree with of recent changes. Theres plenty of comp hunters available on order to get you anything you want, most charge reasonable prices and even those that want proper compensation are still well under Nadia. The other day I heard a complaint about comp prices on Aug connie from someone that routinely gripes about Nadia being gone.....the price in question 100 sp for Blue Vexes....well those were in the 385 sp range from Nadia so what good does bringing back Nadia do for that person who isn't willing to pay a player a quarter of that.

Most of these arguments all go back to two things playstyle and playtime. Just because you play a game your not entitled to everything available in the game. If you want an economy make one I routinely buy stuff I can make or can get off a guildmate for free. WHY? because I like rewarding people for getting their craft schools, enjoy the interaction with others and it fits nicely with my craft lazy RP. T5 top teched gear is the biggest time sink in game, it takes forever to get enough comps to tech everything, but it should, its end game equipment, its not a right of membership.

I know everyones gonna say "I don't have that kind of playtime" well some of us, due to unfortunate life circumstances do. So the game needs tailored to those with limited time as well as those with unlimited time. To me everything is available in Istaria to anyone who wants it, figuring out how you can get it is why we're all playing, but through trade of services, coin sale or just taking the time yourself(if you've got it), ive never come across anything in Istaria that I wanted I couldnt get. Recently took me three days of asking around to find a tech I needed, I couldve had someone else make what i wanted teched, but I preferred to wait on finding t, but find it I did.

Maybe I've got more patience than most but I don't see any problem with how much time it gets to t5 comps, it only raises the value of said equipment. The real problem in Istaria to me is that people didnt have a problem paying Nadia crazy prices but seem to think a player looking for even a quarter of what Nadia charged are viewed as crooks.

Hail Teto!

I see what you are saying and to some extent I agree but to another I cannot. You suggest that the game needs to be tailored both to those who have a lot of time AND those who do not...Well it is definitely tailored to those that DO but very much NOT to those who do not.

It takes me forever to craft most things and I lose money constantly doing it. Making the things most players would seem to need (tools, weapons, etc...) is usually a study in futility as they rarely buy them and even then they buy them for chump change when I could have PB'ed the resources for more cash. So why bother making things for people? I do it ONLY for the RP value of being a crafter and to help others to be ABLE to enjoy the game but outside of that I am not motivated at all to craft for others.

Also getting Comps for the highest level things being difficult is alright but there is difficult and then there is obnoxious. I would be fine with the idea the monsters be tricky to assail and that you need to get together a skilled group to take them down but if you get your war machine rolling efficiently the rewards should be guaranteed. Just making you kill the same thing over and over for weeks on end in the vague hope that you may get what you want is a cop out. It is just saying "We did not want to go through the trouble to make this a real challenge so instead we just made it an endurance match. Let's see how long you will spend to get this thing you need!"...You may as well go play the Lotto IRL because by the time you get everything you need here you might have won.

Now I agree that with the difficulty to get the items one should expect to pay a decent sum in order to buy them from another person. If someone is complaining about that they are part of the problem not the solution.

However, there is still the problem that you cannot play just a Crafter in the game. It would be nice but to get the cash you need to buy your Forms, Comps, and pay for Teleports (if you build plots or have to switch classes while loaded etc...) you have two choices...Sell LOADS of mats to PB's and hope you do not get your coin nerfed by someone else doing the same thing (and I mean you better be ready to do that for HOURS upon HOURS) or go and Adventure. The discrepancy of pay between Crafting and Adventuring is enormous and this makes it glaringly obvious as a problem.

I for one am very fine being and Adventurer as well as a Crafter but it is because I play both that I see the HUGE difference in how much money you can make. Crafting generally = Loss of Money and Adventuring = Making Loads of it.

That brings more issue to the economy problem because the Crafters cannot buy things and it seems like a huge draw to play the game is the crafting (which in and of itself is very well done). So you get a LOT of broke crafters LOL and a few rich Adventurers. If you know macro economics at all you know that a few Rich people DO NOT make an economy work but a lot of Moderately Wealthy people DO.

Honestly, I have noticed that the vast majority of the active players tend to be Teir I~II folks at the moment who cannot afford to spend 100 Silver on anything and a small group of Elite folks who are at the end game who are so far removed from the starting players they do not even remember what it was like to struggle to upgrade one's vault or keep up with your Spells, Weapons, Armor because they changed every couple of weeks. I mean heck...I run around in Bronze Plate when I am ready for Iron Scale and soon Iron Chain...I may not even bother upgrading until I can just do Iron Plate because it costs too much and is too much darned work.

Also as a note to the time sinks it is notably frustrating to me that keeping your crafting levels up to the demand of your adventuring levels is such an enormous pain...You gain crafting levels sooo slooowly doing pointless grinding that just wastes time because you are just destroying everything you make. Whereas there are lots of Adventuring quests (if you can find them and actually complete them...) and even if you just grind you are making money constantly, getting new stuff, and going up levels rather quickly. So Adventuring levels are not only more fun but a lot easier to get which can make a wicked discrepancy show up between the two sides once again.

Just so no one gets me wrong, I rather like Istaria and except for how you level it think the Crafting system is hands down the best I have ever seen. I rather like the classes and skills in Adventuring and while I think many quests need a lot of work on the text to make them more doable and that all the "Stand in a Magic Spot you cannot see" quests need to go away, I generally find the experience as an Adventurer to be a very good and rather rewarding one compared to any other MMO I have played. I do not get the "Grind" feel for most of my Adventuring which means it is generally done very well. However, as I start to go for Comps that grind feel does start to sink in heavily which is a big disappointment. So the game is very good but just because it IS very good does not mean it cannot yet be made better. Perfect is unobtainable but as good as it can possibly be may yet be realized eventually.

[Guaran]

Guaran I'm not sure exactly what you think I'm whining about since you basically echoed my stance...

Not you, everyone else lol. I agreed with you pretty much completely:

This.

Pretty much every post since my previous post and yours was people whining.

About nadia and that time sinks are not needed... <-- Well I have to disagree (with them) because ..

[Frith-Rae]

I agree with Furniture big time

Everyone does. Unfortunately, as the devs have now stated, its just not going to happen with the current engine (or its current state). This is due to the way the world is rendered and the fact that if we placed in individual furniture we'd lag ourselves out of existance lol. Now, wether the engine will ever be altered in such a way to make this possible (ala whatever like they did to create the possbility of a dungeon), or wether a "craft one unit furniture included as part of the original graphic" something would make any difference or matter at all I have no idea. I'm not a computer graphic type person . (Or programmer or anything outside of building..lol)

are at the end game who are so far removed from the starting players they do not even remember what it was like to struggle to upgrade one's vault or keep up with your Spells, Weapons, Armor because they changed every couple of weeks. I mean heck...I

lol - as a poorer being in "almost end game" I've never been able to afford (or rather justify the expense) of upgrading my vault. I try to empty it as often as possible and not to bounce too much off the connie that way (even if it means PB cuz it won't sell). But my income and cost of vault upgrade just doesn't jive..lol.

Please, I'd like to see this thread going and not get shut down because people start taking offense to "whining" statements! If you feel that way just don't read the thread; or skip posters you don't agree with, or just stay away from negative statements.

Really, I like this discussion - discussions like this are good IMO and important. Makes me have some belief that devs are reading and thinking our thoughts sometimes and we might be able to offer up some good brainstorming. *grins*

[Vortura]

Honestly, I have noticed that the vast majority of the active players tend to be Teir I~II folks at the moment who cannot afford to spend 100 Silver on anything and a small group of Elite folks who are at the end game who are so far removed from the starting players they do not even remember what it was like to struggle to upgrade one's vault or keep up with your Spells, Weapons, Armor because they changed every couple of weeks.

I don't get the point your trying to put across here.
I'm not catering for the T1-2 players with the T5 comps I sell on connies for up to 100s. I'm catering for the elite folks who find it difficult to source these comps during their travels and don't mind paying me to do so.
I am able to sell certain T5 comps for a such a price because Nadia had already set a precedent and there appears to be noone else willing to hunt and sell the comps on the Order connies.

My main reason for charging these prices, and I've made no secret about this, is to encourage others to go out and make a living for their characters by hunting. There is very little of this happening.
People are buying the comps which justifies the prices I charge. If they didn't buy them, I would drop the price or stop selling them.
Please don't expect that I'm just going to give these things away but I will accept payment of coin, resources, building work and so on, and this will usually work out in the favour of the other party unless they are particularly generous. I'm certainly not in need of the coin, but I'm also not a charity.

That being said, there's only a handful of comps that are worth a decent amount of coin and those are typically the only ones I try to sell, unless I get a special order to fill.
T5 comps from critters that are farmed for trophies or XP are worth a pitiful amount of coin because of oversupply, therefore there's no incentive for me to hunt them.

[LOVWYRM]

you were not ment with that post, Vortura.
I`m rather sure, cause I understand what the poster ment.
And I agree to the point, that vet players and newbies live in different worlds.

concerning "whining": I see no reason why "whing" is something bad.
Expressing our feelings about the game is more important, helps us to understand each other, helps the devs to find out what the community wants and needs. More important than pure reason..
The might be logical reasons not to play Istaria.
Its the emotions and feelings that keep us here. Velveeta`s X-factor.