Leet, roleplay, and just spelling

[Nyoko]

So, was sitting in NT this morning and really, for the first time felt like ranting and raving and screaming. Either that or blowing my brains out. In a two minute period I saw the worst spelling, grammatical, and just plain leet idiocy in an rp setting possible. I just wonder what exactly people are teaching in school or are we allowing two year olds to play now? Well, actually I think even my two year old niece can at least spell get. Who the heck spells get wrong? I mean really, its one of the first three letter words I learned to spell and that was before kindergarten. When did America get so bad that we can't even think about the settings we are in, and must degrade ourselves to not even spelling simple words correctly because it looks 'cool'? We claim to be the best in the world, yet we must put leet or emoticons into everything we do instead of properly spelling things or thinking about something that would improve the atmosphere.

Anyway, my rant of the year. And if anyone gets offended by it, tough. Anyone who thinks talking like a two year old as a teenager or adult is cool, especially in rp, should be ashamed of themselves. Some example we are showing to the world.

[Tarida]

I probably can't say anything but: I agree! Fully!

Lately, there's been a lot more 'leetspeak' in RP. Personally, I don't have problem with it should anyone use it in OOC babble, though I make fun of it, from time to time. But in RP posts? I mean... would anyone of you guys talk like that in real life? After all, in RP we try to 'live' through our character. Does it seem adequate for a character to say: zomfg, olol, ?

I hardly think so.

And it's not just about that, consider the bad spelling also a problem of understand each other. As you probably already noticed, I am no native speaker. When I hear someone talk like that, I go pretty much 'Eh? What?'. There are many players who don't have English as their native language... and I hardly think they can understand it a bit more if even native speakers have their problems with it.

Just my two cents...

[Raptress]

Ahah. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about Nyoko. I was sitting in New Trismus the other day for a few hours because.. well. It was like a car wreck. You have to look.

One of the more annoying aspects is that there is actually that "roleplay" tag on the Order server in the launcher now, yet the majority of the players that fit this rant have no idea what OOC and IC are. Even if they do, there's a few of them that seem to try to take over any RP they see going on and try to make it about them. >_>

And the spelling. Oh the spelling. I just hope that spelling someone's name that's right above their head five different ways and not correctly even once is not contagious. I mean.. I can understand some bad spelling; I know we're not just an American server. But come on. The name is right there. At least put forth a tiny bit of effort.

[Thicklesip]

/sticks on Devil's Advocate horns

I would like to draw a distinction, in this rant, between "people who cannot be arsed to try, even just a little, and merrily stomp their way through role-play going Godzilla on the conventions and norms" and "people who are trying, really, but have problems or impediments or whatever that keep them from producing properly-punctuated Shakespeare on demand." I have had to deal with both sorts. The former makes me want to reach through the internet and punch them in the face. The latter includes a significant number of my friends, online or not-- some of them among the best role-players I've had the honor of meeting. Of course, when you first meet someone you can't divine which category they fall into.

Personally, I just remember that I was very... cool to a guildmate, years back, the first time I met her. Her spelling was a bit hit-or-miss at times, punctuation was sparse, and her RP didn't strike me as exemplary at first blush. But she wasn't a jerk, and I reluctantly granted her an extended chance to impress me. Long story short is she turned into one of my closest online friends, and she's one of the only people whose RP I'm genuinely interested in past what I can participate in. (I'm a terrible spectator, as a rule-- I'd rather do than watch.) All of that completely flies in the face of my first impressions, and boy am I glad I gave her more than a brief acquaintance or two to get there.

There is also the usual plea for peace and understanding-- it's so far back that I don't remember it, but I know that once upon a time, I didn't have a clue what "role-playing" was beyond the individual definitions of the words. I'm pretty sure that applies to most everyone else as well.

While I'm not nearly optimistic or naive enough to pretend that EVERYONE is a stellar RPer waiting to happen... well, they're certainly never going to improve if they sit in New Trismus trying to hog the limelight with leet speak without any feedback. Not that I'd ever break my back trying to teach everyone all the tricks, but a helping hand and a few gentle suggestions has a better chance of "fixing" it than just ranting to your friends behind their back, yes?


(Yes yes, rant forum is for rant... and lord knows I'm more wrathful than this entire thread combined in an entire day if something gets me going. I just can't resist counter-rants. Forgive me!)

[Starstilanxs]

The problem with this is the fact that there have been sooooooo many times where I personally have said: "Alright, this is really getting annoying guys. First off if its OOC use brackets, second off no smilies in RP, third -stop- using l33t speak." However that seems to go by in the rush of random spam spewing out like a broken waterpipe. They simply don't want to try, no matter what the circumstance, they would rather be stuck in their own little world and disrespect all the other RPer's

I have tried to get these people to learn many many times. But none of them seem to read sentences that start with a capital letter and end with a period or some other form of punctuation, they seem to fear it >.>

But upon the primary factor here is, NT, where I used to sit around and RP all the time in enjoying fantastic well written paraposting and even regular casual one line RP (Yes, I am not above that sort of stuff! ; ) ) has been all but snuffed away in the lines and lines of leetspeak, bad spelling, OOC non-sense, etc... etc..

You all likely get the point by now so /rant

[Nyoko]

Thicklesip, I will definitely say, this isn't about those that do try. Those who speak a foreign language and are learning, or those with say dislexia or something. Those who try. I have many friends in the game that I enjoy rping with who, yes they don't spell that great sometimes, or one who has a problem but I enjoy rping with that individual because I can see the character because he rps. This is only about those that are fully about not trying the rp experience outside the norms of things like wow, where rp leet, or just plain bad spelling is acceptable.

I'm not looking for stellar rp. I'm just looking for some rp, that makes me believe it is rp and not ooc chat.

[LOVWYRM]

( I agree with you all here-
but for obviers reasons :
thank you for your post Thickle*hugs*
but on the other hand- I would never dare to participate at a longer rp-
due to bad spelling under pressure- and insufficiant English)

[Nambroth]

Thank you Nyoko!

I spend most of my time online now in NT (mostly on alts) and have always enjoyed myself immensely. Lately however the pure inane.. horror that has been the main chat, has me both disturbed and really quite driven away. I had to leave earlier, with all the chatter about movies and other games, leetspeak, net-speak, and youtube videos. WHAT. I felt like I was in an old AOL chatroom, not on Istaria's Role Playing server!

I understand that OOC banter happens and it does not bother me but in excess it gets to be a little much. How many times can you politely request that this is a RolePlaying channel, offer help, and have both ignored? I would far rather hand out some polite education on how to play and even how to get started RPing if they need it than hand out complaint tickets on people that are not following the rules, but I have seen not only myself but others being blatantly ignored.

How do we encourage new players to our server? We complain about wanting new people, but I fear this is not what I had in mind. I am happy to assist them should they need some guidance, but that is not what is happening here. I am not sure what to do.

[Shian]

Yeah I saw this when I went to NT yesterday. Two players RPing without regard to grammar, or spelling.

I just ignored it. After all, if they can understand each other and are having fun, they should be free to do so. At least that's what I told myself as I tried to get as far away as possible before my eyes started bleeding or my brain started melting from trying to translate it. >.<

[Frith-Rae]

As a voracious reader and English Minor - I feel your pain . I hear your rant - and I too know the difference between people who are trying and people who are just "talking" however they talk in OOC (out in /say or whatever).

I of course try the polite suggestions first, like "ok I see you doing the smilies - just so you know smilies are ignored in IC/RP so my character isn't seeing that so I wont' be responding to it" or "just letting you know I don't respond to leet speak or abbreviations in RP, this is IC and my character doesn't know that language" or something like that. MOST of the times *I* have had to do something like that its been taken in the spirit in which it was given and honestly the players did not know that it wasn't the "norm" in RP. They adjusted, got the picture when they'd forget and I would only give partial responses , and we moved on.

But yes that is far different from those who refuse to be polite and move somewhere else with their ooc speak (I mean I say ZOMG in OOC/dragon and in RL all the time, but Frith would never lol).

If they ignore your suggestions, al you can do is ignore them. It could be an influx of new players from the MMO interviews that have been happening, or just people bouncing games randomly and see a "Free trial" (I know I'm more open to trying games with free trials heh). They do or do not realize what "RP" server means - or even that "RP servers" in other games really mean nothing at all (which unfortunately is more of a norm now...) and that this is their first encounter with a real RP server population (who will actually say something).

You can always just /ignore; I know its nothing anyone likes to do (I don't...) but if I can't just skip over what they're saying myself then it is the option. Eventualy if they find themselves ignored by half the populatin in game they'll either change or move on.

Odds are they aren't sticking around for the long haul if some of the above is true, as they won't be able to tolerate this old-school type game lol.

[Dhalin]

These days, it almost seems like Order NT is turning into Moon Guard Goldshire from WoW.

Slowly, but surely.

Before, it was the whole "hatchlings mating" rants, and now the "poorly spelled/punctuated/grammar" RP that I'm reading about now...

Ick.

I usually run through NT (I have my binds set there just because I'm used to them being that way) and I usually have my /say in its own separate tab and I rarely view it for more than a brief second to get it to stop flashing (it drives me nuts after awhile).

I could never understand what is so hard about properly using the language, if you're native to it. I understand the whole concept of those who are not native English speakers and honestly, I have zero problems with them! I've "spoken" to a lot of people who are clearly foreign and I'm very patient (and will even offer help if they asked), but then there are people who _are_ native English-speakers... ugh.

I find that these days, my patience for such people is wearing thin. I tend to just shrug, shake my head and keep walkin'. More often than not, these people are just plain lazy and don't care about using the language properly. What bugs me even more, is that I'm seeing this RL. I work at a grocery store as I've mentioned in my other rant posts, and _our own cashiers_ talk like redneck hillbillies who never got past 3rd grade in school. Honestly. If I were a customer at a retail store, grocery store, whatever, I'd politely ask to be checked out by another cashier. I don't want someone who didn't even finish highschool to be counting MY money and handling my merchandise.

I don't get why it is so hard to write/talk intelligently. I just don't understand what is so hard about that. Even proper grammar I could get past, if it weren't for the intentional misspellings, and worse yet, AOL-speak, or "leet speak". That's not a cause of ignorance, it is a case of pure laziness.

Actually, I dunno if it is laziness ... it is more... I dunno, rebellious? They don't want to do things right, they want to do things their way? Face it, replacing letters with numbers sometimes takes MORE effort than just spelling the word correctly. For example, swapping "e" with "3" makes you reach *further* with your fingers.

Or, replacing "L" with "1", the "L" key is on the home-row, and is very accessible. "1" on the other hand is way up near the Tab key, making it a more difficult choice to swap it. Some "leet-speak" swaps, though, do make it easier, like using "8" or such.

Either way, "leet-speak" is just annoying. I can't think of any other way to describe it. It is that one thing that should never have been, and hopefully, I can only pray we can make it a bannable offense to use it in-game. I could only wish.

[ScaleIron]

These days, it almost seems like Order NT is turning into Moon Guard Goldshire from WoW.

Oh god no. I play on that server (when I had money to play, I will in the near future) and after making the mistake of creating a human character that wasn't a death knight, I decided I was going to get my horde characters leveled to 80 so I could burn that horrible place down on a regular basis.

I will cut out the cancer that is Goldenshire from the Moon Guard server, I swear...

Please continue on with the regularly scheduled rant.

[Veya]

Agreed.

You foreigners are just fine with me! c: There are plenty of words I even get wrong and simply just have never really known how to spell them. :x

However, to the recent happenings in NT -- I don't think I've ever seen such an abominable eyesore in my life.

[Sereamha]

I totally agree with this. Those people are just ruining it for those who actually want to rp there. I still try to rp there, but a lot of times it is drowned out by:

"LOL my laptop is awesome"
"i'm bored"

ALL of which are OOC speech but are not designated as such. I try to remind them, but it is like they don't hear me at all. Heck, I try and rp with them, then IC they start talking about their account. What am I supposed to do with that? How many times do I have to tell them? I actually think a lot of younger players are trying the game now. They can't be more than 14 years old. GEE though, even then, they should have common sense and the ability to learn.

[Tcei]

Sounds to me like trolls. I may be wrong but isnt there something in the elua or sever rules or some such, that says you can report someone for excessive ooc? Take screen shots and get a log of the things said and report them to the devs.

[Dhalin]

Oh god no. I play on that server (when I had money to play, I will in the near future) and after making the mistake of creating a human character that wasn't a death knight, I decided I was going to get my horde characters leveled to 80 so I could burn that horrible place down on a regular basis.

I will cut out the cancer that is Goldenshire from the Moon Guard server, I swear...

Please continue on with the regularly scheduled rant.

Trust me, it is slowly getting to that point.

It has a long ways to go yet, but it *is* slowly going in that direction.

Maybe 2-3 years down the road, we will see naked (well, armor-less) Saris females dancing around on the NT Shrine or some-crap.

[Akrion]

Either way, "leet-speak" is just annoying. I can't think of any other way to describe it. It is that one thing that should never have been, and hopefully, I can only pray we can make it a bannable offense to use it in-game. I could only wish.

Leet-speak annoys me because it came from something useful, and now people use it everywhere with a straight face. Making it a bannable offense wouldn't work out too well, though, because plenty of people occasionally use it without any seriousness what so ever, and then you'd be stuck with the pointless task of trying to distinguish that.

[Wolffang]

I know. I am sitting in NT at this moment, and there are at least five people there asking questions repeatedly. even giving and answeer and asked politely to use brackets, they ask again, and again. Drowned out their own answers by their own spam. Somebody end it! D:

[Tcei]

I havent played in nearly 4 months so I cant say from first hand what's happening, but to judge from whats being said here...

Im not saying to report those who occasionally use it. (i.e. in the middle of an rp someone says 'afk a sec, door') Im talking about those who obsessively use it, despite repeated (and hopefully friendly) attempts to ask them to stop, who spam until no one else can talk, ect.

All of which seems to be happening, right now. I'd almost guarantee that these players arent doing this out of ignorance, but just to be spiteful - aka trolls. Turn on your logs and take screen shots of what's happening and send it in via support.istaria.com.

If someone doesnt step up to nip it in the bud now, it'll only get worse and spread.

[velveeta]

i apologise if i have given offense in any way - i guess i do leet, but it is so part of me these days that i am not even aware of it......
to me, its like 'thieve's cant' - a way of discovering who might be like you vs. who is 'other'....