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Thread: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

  1. #21

    Default My Frustrations as a New Player

    After the Trial of the Gifted, the Video on the main page, and some other beginning stuff I did not find the whole "Lack of Intro" thing that problematic.

    I honestly never saw the part of the Tutorial that told me how to use my skills but it may have been there. I just managed to figure it out. I do recall it showing me that I had a character sheet and that there were skills there and from that I managed to deduce that I needed to get them to my bar which I managed. One thing that would be insanely nice there is to make it so if you click and hold the skill icon ON your bar that you can move it to another spot on your bar including overwriting something already there.

    A common stretching story arc does seem a tad bit missing in some aspects though. I feel like Link from the Legend of Zelda where though I know who my main Villain is (The Aegis) I am more frequently off killing anything BUT that Villain in order to fulfill side quests. THE TENTH CHICKEN!!! (Points for getting that joke)

    A bit more focus on the Aegis themselves could be good and while there is SOME focus on them there should be a bit more. I also think Town Marshals and Trophy Hunters should be looking for Aegis/Undead kills and parts more than just random beasts. I mean would they not be MOST concerned about the vast Army of undead coming to KILL EVERYONE? Would not proof of having killed a Mighty WA be quite the Trophy?

    My biggest frustration early on (and even still) however was Coin. If you want to do ANY Crafting you will need LOTS of Coin. You cannot sell what you make for much more than a pittance (because you cannot sell to players for much at all) and yet making things costs you money. You have to buy Forms which are way too expensive compared to your earning Potential. You need to buy some Techs which are a bit easier on the Wallet than Forms but not by a huge degree. You need to at times buy Comps because you do not stand a chance of getting them yourself without the item you are trying to MAKE equipped. If you dare to have a Plot (which is obviously extremely ill advised before lvl 100 in many crafting schools...) then first you need to either be in the Guild or manage to pull a Gold or More from some orifice which is not happening any time soon. You will also ultimately be faced with Teleport Charges (if you do not know which portals to use which is plain silly) and these get worse if building plots Due to Disk charges. So before you know it you are extremely Broke and can hardly progress.

    Considering that Craft Grinding is the most monotonous and boring of the grinding, types in Istaria because you do not get any reward as you go up (unlike the new ability every 2 levels from Adv Grinding) and you do not get any money for doing it (unlike Adv Grinding again), having to do a lot of it only to become broke can be a really serious turn off. I would have quit on that point myself if it was not for finding a Guild and some RP partners.

    I do thank the staff on this part for adding in the quests in NT that GIVE you Forms and some Coin to boot because you NEED that help but once those are over it is all down hill from there.

    Now mind you, the Grind and Coin Black Hole part of Crafting I have issue with but besides that I generally find Istaria's crafting system the best I have ever encountered. It generally makes sense what you harvest to make what you make and the customization on your creations is very nice. I also like the fact that everything is player made. I know that is rough on the New Folks but... It just is more satisfying in the end and helps take care of the question "If I am saving the world why does the Blacksmith CHARGE me for my gear? Shouldn't he GIVE me stuff so that he does not get KILLED?" which was always fun to wonder about in other games.

    I am also forever annoyed at only being able to apply 2 to 1 in Construction... I mean honestly... Where does that other Brick go? You mean to tell me that despite me being fully Optimal in my skill at Sandstone Block Laying as a Mason I STILL break or screw up every other Block? I mean wow... Talk about lack of skill when the best you can ever manage is to be 50% accurate in your trade. I do not think most employers would accept someone who can only do their job half the time.

    The attunement thing was also a big pain in my tail. I gather the idea is to try to rail road players down a specific path but getting to Parsinia and Sslanis are both death traps thanks to the Lt.'s on the Road and the fact that in Istaria Roads are always deadly which goes against every instinct you have as a Gamer. Yet you NEED to get to Sslanis in order to get Tier I Techs and to become some of the classes for Bipeds which is a big problem. You also often NEED to get to Bristugo and such in order to interact with other players (who you depend on for Gear many times) because that is where they will want to be. Running all over the world HOPING that you LAG enough that monsters do not spawn and kill you is unique to Istaria in my experience (never heard of Lag being a good thing before) but not a good thing.

    The last thing that frustrated me to no end were the Magic Spot quests. I understand that the NPC's can be vague in their descriptions and the open ended model of RPG's. I LOVE Elder Scrolls... buuuut... When an NPC tells me to go somewhere vaguely and then the quest expects me to stand on a VERY specific tiny little place that I may NOT go to on my own... It is VERY frustrating trying to guess where I am supposed to stand. Some times it is along the road which is stupid because if you learned anything by then it is "DO NOT RUN ON ROADS STUPID!" because you get ambushed and slaughtered on the Roads.

    Other times it is just in a place you would NEVER naturally go. I remember one in New Tristmus that wanted me to stand somewhere around where the Maggots were to go get Sand Pygmies. I already stumbled into the Sand Pygmies but could I go kill them? Noooo... I had to go stand in the magic spot but the directions for where it was were vague and I had already learned to avoid the Maggot Swarms so going near them when I knew a MUCH SAFER route seemed crazy.

    The example of a Magic Spot done RIGHT is when you are told to climb the ancient pyramid as part of the First Hunt quest in Sslanis. That gives you a clear land mark that you can visually SEE and recognize to go stand on. Unlike the Shoulder Parrot quest which to date I have never completed due to its reliance on many Magic Spots that I could never find more than 2 of on accident.

    That is it for my experience as a New Player and be warned that I am pretty sharp, very willing to ask others for knowledge without any hesitation, and a good strategist so if it frustrated ME it probably Broke the Game for other people and I was probably not bothered by a LOT of things most people were.
    "Nothing Is Never Not... everything is never."-Vacuus, Lord of Nothing

  2. #22

    Default Re: My Frustrations as a New Player

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkuu View Post
    After the Trial of the Gifted, the Video on the main page, and some other beginning stuff I did not find the whole "Lack of Intro" thing that problematic.

    I honestly never saw the part of the Tutorial that told me how to use my skills but it may have been there. I just managed to figure it out. I do recall it showing me that I had a character sheet and that there were skills there and from that I managed to deduce that I needed to get them to my bar which I managed. One thing that would be insanely nice there is to make it so if you click and hold the skill icon ON your bar that you can move it to another spot on your bar including overwriting something already there.

    A common stretching story arc does seem a tad bit missing in some aspects though. I feel like Link from the Legend of Zelda where though I know who my main Villain is (The Aegis) I am more frequently off killing anything BUT that Villain in order to fulfill side quests. THE TENTH CHICKEN!!! (Points for getting that joke)

    A bit more focus on the Aegis themselves could be good and while there is SOME focus on them there should be a bit more. I also think Town Marshals and Trophy Hunters should be looking for Aegis/Undead kills and parts more than just random beasts. I mean would they not be MOST concerned about the vast Army of undead coming to KILL EVERYONE? Would not proof of having killed a Mighty WA be quite the Trophy?

    My biggest frustration early on (and even still) however was Coin. If you want to do ANY Crafting you will need LOTS of Coin. You cannot sell what you make for much more than a pittance (because you cannot sell to players for much at all) and yet making things costs you money. You have to buy Forms which are way too expensive compared to your earning Potential. You need to buy some Techs which are a bit easier on the Wallet than Forms but not by a huge degree. You need to at times buy Comps because you do not stand a chance of getting them yourself without the item you are trying to MAKE equipped. If you dare to have a Plot (which is obviously extremely ill advised before lvl 100 in many crafting schools...) then first you need to either be in the Guild or manage to pull a Gold or More from some orifice which is not happening any time soon. You will also ultimately be faced with Teleport Charges (if you do not know which portals to use which is plain silly) and these get worse if building plots Due to Disk charges. So before you know it you are extremely Broke and can hardly progress.

    Considering that Craft Grinding is the most monotonous and boring of the grinding, types in Istaria because you do not get any reward as you go up (unlike the new ability every 2 levels from Adv Grinding) and you do not get any money for doing it (unlike Adv Grinding again), having to do a lot of it only to become broke can be a really serious turn off. I would have quit on that point myself if it was not for finding a Guild and some RP partners.

    I do thank the staff on this part for adding in the quests in NT that GIVE you Forms and some Coin to boot because you NEED that help but once those are over it is all down hill from there.

    Now mind you, the Grind and Coin Black Hole part of Crafting I have issue with but besides that I generally find Istaria's crafting system the best I have ever encountered. It generally makes sense what you harvest to make what you make and the customization on your creations is very nice. I also like the fact that everything is player made. I know that is rough on the New Folks but... It just is more satisfying in the end and helps take care of the question "If I am saving the world why does the Blacksmith CHARGE me for my gear? Shouldn't he GIVE me stuff so that he does not get KILLED?" which was always fun to wonder about in other games.

    I am also forever annoyed at only being able to apply 2 to 1 in Construction... I mean honestly... Where does that other Brick go? You mean to tell me that despite me being fully Optimal in my skill at Sandstone Block Laying as a Mason I STILL break or screw up every other Block? I mean wow... Talk about lack of skill when the best you can ever manage is to be 50% accurate in your trade. I do not think most employers would accept someone who can only do their job half the time.

    The attunement thing was also a big pain in my tail. I gather the idea is to try to rail road players down a specific path but getting to Parsinia and Sslanis are both death traps thanks to the Lt.'s on the Road and the fact that in Istaria Roads are always deadly which goes against every instinct you have as a Gamer. Yet you NEED to get to Sslanis in order to get Tier I Techs and to become some of the classes for Bipeds which is a big problem. You also often NEED to get to Bristugo and such in order to interact with other players (who you depend on for Gear many times) because that is where they will want to be. Running all over the world HOPING that you LAG enough that monsters do not spawn and kill you is unique to Istaria in my experience (never heard of Lag being a good thing before) but not a good thing.

    The last thing that frustrated me to no end were the Magic Spot quests. I understand that the NPC's can be vague in their descriptions and the open ended model of RPG's. I LOVE Elder Scrolls... buuuut... When an NPC tells me to go somewhere vaguely and then the quest expects me to stand on a VERY specific tiny little place that I may NOT go to on my own... It is VERY frustrating trying to guess where I am supposed to stand. Some times it is along the road which is stupid because if you learned anything by then it is "DO NOT RUN ON ROADS STUPID!" because you get ambushed and slaughtered on the Roads.

    Other times it is just in a place you would NEVER naturally go. I remember one in New Tristmus that wanted me to stand somewhere around where the Maggots were to go get Sand Pygmies. I already stumbled into the Sand Pygmies but could I go kill them? Noooo... I had to go stand in the magic spot but the directions for where it was were vague and I had already learned to avoid the Maggot Swarms so going near them when I knew a MUCH SAFER route seemed crazy.

    The example of a Magic Spot done RIGHT is when you are told to climb the ancient pyramid as part of the First Hunt quest in Sslanis. That gives you a clear land mark that you can visually SEE and recognize to go stand on. Unlike the Shoulder Parrot quest which to date I have never completed due to its reliance on many Magic Spots that I could never find more than 2 of on accident.

    That is it for my experience as a New Player and be warned that I am pretty sharp, very willing to ask others for knowledge without any hesitation, and a good strategist so if it frustrated ME it probably Broke the Game for other people and I was probably not bothered by a LOT of things most people were.
    If you run into quests that have poor directions feel free to post about them. If we don't know that players find the directions poor, we can't fix them.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Happy to assist you further with this. Just open a separate thread or send me a PM or open a support ticket.

    As far as being able to review dialog for previous quest steps or for completed quests, unfortunately that is not a possibility at the present time. Would require significant client rework and would dramatically increase the amount of data transfer.
    I'd have an hint for those in difficulty recalling about quests: press F12 (or whatever key is bound to it) to take a screenshot while the quest text is shown. This will save lots of headaches later.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    *hands the "ask me-I`m clever" emblem to Vah*:-))
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  5. #25

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    There are quite a few rewards in the newer quests. Not just coin and xp, but also tech kits (which are better than straight items imho because they allow you to apply them to items of your choice) as well as emblems, crystals, special foods/potions, spells and more.
    Those t2 quest rewards could be improved. The +7 Strength, +7 Power ones could be increased to say +14 +14. So that its better than a t2 tech Strength which only gives +10. It needs to exceed the regular techs or no one bothers using it. And it is not making it "overpowered" because only one of the stats is going to assist the player anyway. Power will help if they are a caster, Strength if they play melee. And it will still get outgrown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    ...Though Istaria does have some problems here and there, either something won't be descriptive enough, or the trigger point will be too specific.
    Completely agree on some quests where a trigger has to happen first. When the trigger point is very small, it gets rediculously aggravating. Example: find the skulk village south of bristugo quest. You have to hit a trigger point on the road thats positioned west of the village, before killing the shaman or whatever so that the quest trigger progresses the quest to the next step. But you see the villiage before getting that far south. So the player finds and sees the villiage, kills the shaman as the previous npc had told them to do, run back, quest isnt updated. WTH happened! The trigger area needs to be not only that section of road, but the area east of it and the village itself. Is that possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    One problem I can sometimes encounter is having directions or instructions given to me via talking to an NPC, but not the quest log, and after you talk to the NPC the directions/instructions won't be said again. So perhaps a journal could be made to hold all your conversations with NPCs for a quest? Should also allow a player to more easily return to a quest later down the road if they had to stop for any reason.
    This is also a good idea. I've learned to leave the quest window open. How to implement it I'm not sure... maybe a button in the quest log of the quest, the brings up the chat text again.. Or it could just be a text file on the client, like a log file, that stores all NPC chat, and the link simply brings up this file for a player to review. No extra data would have to be transferred, as it would simply append the text being shown from NPC's that the player is already seeing in the npc chat.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    As far as being able to review dialog for previous quest steps or for completed quests, unfortunately that is not a possibility at the present time. Would require significant client rework and would dramatically increase the amount of data transfer.
    I could be missing something, but you shouldn't need to send any more data than you already do. If you're sending NPC dialog from server to client so the client can print it to the chat window, then you should only need to have the client print it to a Journal as well. Technically, it already does this in way of the chat log, but it shouldn't require too much to have the client separate NPC dialog from everything else?

    Dialog path pre-journal:
    [Server] -----> [Client] -----> [Chat Window] -----> [Chat Log]

    Dialog path post-journal:
    [Server] -----> [Client] -----> [Chat Window] -----> [Chat Log & Dialog journal]

    ((The last path assuming it doesn't print to both the Chat Window and Chat Log at the 'same time'))

    I could be understanding it wrong, of course, but to me it would seem that the only data you may need to add to send from the Server is an indication to the client that it is receiving NPC dialog. And that shouldn't be very significant.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    I could be missing something, but you shouldn't need to send any more data than you already do. If you're sending NPC dialog from server to client so the client can print it to the chat window, then you should only need to have the client print it to a Journal as well. Technically, it already does this in way of the chat log, but it shouldn't require too much to have the client separate NPC dialog from everything else?

    Dialog path pre-journal:
    [Server] -----> [Client] -----> [Chat Window] -----> [Chat Log]

    Dialog path post-journal:
    [Server] -----> [Client] -----> [Chat Window] -----> [Chat Log & Dialog journal]

    ((The last path assuming it doesn't print to both the Chat Window and Chat Log at the 'same time'))

    I could be understanding it wrong, of course, but to me it would seem that the only data you may need to add to send from the Server is an indication to the client that it is receiving NPC dialog. And that shouldn't be very significant.
    Sorry, it doesn't work that way for quests.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #28

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Sorry, it doesn't work that way for quests.
    But the dialog must still reach the client in some way, it gets logged in the chat log. If the dialog gets logged in the chat log, it can very well get logged in a journal without needing any more information. The only problem I see is differentiating NPC dialog from everything else.

    I'm not talking about quest information, but the conversations you have with NPCs during a quest. That stuff you often can't return to read again if you get lost unless you dig through the chat logs. And if you return to a quest after a week or so, the chat log may no longer be there.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    But the dialog must still reach the client in some way, it gets logged in the chat log. If the dialog gets logged in the chat log, it can very well get logged in a journal without needing any more information. The only problem I see is differentiating NPC dialog from everything else.

    I'm not talking about quest information, but the conversations you have with NPCs during a quest. That stuff you often can't return to read again if you get lost unless you dig through the chat logs. And if you return to a quest after a week or so, the chat log may no longer be there.
    Yes, it is sent down at the time that step is executed. But, once that step is completed neither the client nor server know about it any longer.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Yes, it is sent down at the time that step is executed. But, once that step is completed neither the client nor server know about it any longer.
    As a workaround, it could simply append the quest text to a local log file. That would not be more than 4-5 lines of C++ code.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Yes, it is sent down at the time that step is executed. But, once that step is completed neither the client nor server know about it any longer.
    Well yeah, but imagine another more specific chat log that will only log chat sent with a specific identifier. This identifier, whatever it may be, could be sent with NPC dialog. During the step that logs the chat, there can also be a check for this identifier to log NPC dialog by checking for this identifier (which would be unique only to NPC dialog).

    I've been working on a chat message system for a text based game engine and part of that allows the user to send in a string with tags to change text color:

    SendGameMessage(HalfBlue, "Default color of dark blue. $<HalfRed> New color of maroon red. $<Default> Back to dark blue.");

    Will send a message to a specified window in the console that will print out as follows:
    Default color of dark blue. New color of maroon red. Back to dark blue.

    With that, the code that actually prints the message to the screen can use tags to accomplish unique things while at the same time ignoring said tags. Not the best example of what I'm trying to say, but it should be close enough to explain my idea of a unique identifier.

    I'm only touching on the topic of needing to send more data, that it shouldn't be very significant since the only data you would really need to send in addition is a way for a 'quest journal' to tell the difference between NPC dialog and non-NPC dialog. This assuming there isn't already a way to do so.

    As for changes to the client to make it a neat feature and not a slapped together feature, yes, it would take a bit of work. I was merely offering an idea based on my experiences and the experiences of a few friends.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
    I'd have an hint for those in difficulty recalling about quests: press F12 (or whatever key is bound to it) to take a screenshot while the quest text is shown. This will save lots of headaches later.

    heehee i actually do this now - i discovered the total usefulness of this trick when i started to blog about the game.....
    i created derexx and walked thru the whole process, from creation to getting to new trismus, taking screenies as i went. when i processed the screenies for posting, i discovered that i was able put the quest text in the proper order, and then i thought - hey, i can do this for all my quests just for personal use!!!
    got screenies for all the delgarath quests for vel, cause i will be taking long building breaks between quests, and i would never remember all that stuff on my own....
    you can't cast a play in hell and expect angels as actors
    check out my game blog: https://velveeta3.livejournal.com/

  13. #33

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    I had a play with the a fresh install of a client today.

    I managed to get all quest text to spam into a one chat window (not one window for one NPC).

    Downside of this is in the process it also spams any player tells into the same window and won't create a separate tab/chat window for tells. You have to use /tell or /send to reply back to a player.

    For information, when you greet an NPC you actually get a /tell back from the NPC, but it outputs itself to a new chat window (subject to the quest criteria/step).

    My question is what are the variables that can be defined for the system chat channels? For example the majority of the channels have "bool MainChat = true". What else can be altered?

    Also is there a variable in a format similar to "%sOriginName%" that holds a local timestamp? If so I can add timestamps to the player channels (which is a personal annoyance of mine as I end up replying to something said 30+ mins ago.)

    Sorry for sidetracking the OP
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  14. #34

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Chasing View Post
    I had a play with the a fresh install of a client today.

    I managed to get all quest text to spam into a one chat window (not one window for one NPC).

    Downside of this is in the process it also spams any player tells into the same window and won't create a separate tab/chat window for tells. You have to use /tell or /send to reply back to a player.

    For information, when you greet an NPC you actually get a /tell back from the NPC, but it outputs itself to a new chat window (subject to the quest criteria/step).

    My question is what are the variables that can be defined for the system chat channels? For example the majority of the channels have "bool MainChat = true". What else can be altered?
    In the def file?

    Also is there a variable in a format similar to "%sOriginName%" that holds a local timestamp? If so I can add timestamps to the player channels (which is a personal annoyance of mine as I end up replying to something said 30+ mins ago.)
    I'm not familiar with %OriginName%
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  15. #35

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Communications.def

    Example
    string OtherOutputFormat = "%sOriginName% says, '%sMessage%'"
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  16. #36
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    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    I also have 1 point to add...
    Wisps...
    And no not the fact that they do not move, but I have not yet seen a tutorial message on my 2 draconic and few "deleted" biped alts which tells me the difference between tainted and regular essence (orbs) and how to gather both of them. I have in the past seen many new players ask in a channel how they can get essence, because they cannot seem to get it after they killed the wisp.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  17. #37

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    I also have 1 point to add...
    Wisps...
    And no not the fact that they do not move, but I have not yet seen a tutorial message on my 2 draconic and few "deleted" biped alts which tells me the difference between tainted and regular essence (orbs) and how to gather both of them. I have in the past seen many new players ask in a channel how they can get essence, because they cannot seem to get it after they killed the wisp.
    You're half-right. Certain quests do differentiate between tainted and non by essentially telling the player not to kill the Wisp or else the won't get the "pure" form of that essence BUT that's all it actually states. It doesn't say specifically that killing a Wisp causes it to only allow harvesting of tainted essence. That you pretty much have to figure out on your own by killing one first and harvesting the corpse (if that little puddle it leaves can be called a 'corpse').

    It's not a huge problem that a little experimenting can't fix, but it's those kinds of things that can turn away the "modern" players that are so used to a game holding their hand every step of the way. A simple text change could fix that of course: "Don't kill the wisp or it will only produce Tainted Essence." There, I just did your job for you.

    The same can be said about blighted essence too. As far as I know (which isn't very far mind you), the only means of collecting blighted essence would be from harvesting from a Blighted Wisp? (Do those exist?) Else wise, the way I go about getting blighted essence is by killing undead for decons and getting 1 unit of blighted essence from each one that I tear apart.

    What I'm getting at is, for certain things that require blighted essence, even if there is such a thing as a blighted/undead Wisp from which you can harvest them from, the option to collect them from decons should be stated outright. Basically just going one step further from Drag's statement and suggesting that, when harvesting materials/collecting items/killing a certain number of mobs, etc, other options for going about doing these things should be both openly stated (if there are other options) and/or other options should also be put in place. Ie. Killing "X" number of "Y" mobs for "Z" item shouldn't be restricted to 'that one particular group of "Y" mobs in this particular place' if there is another group that's actually more accessible/easier to kill for the same item etc.
    Chaos: Gael Tycarren--Dragon
    "I just... want to remember."

  18. #38

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Armameteus View Post

    The same can be said about blighted essence too. As far as I know (which isn't very far mind you), the only means of collecting blighted essence would be from harvesting from a Blighted Wisp? (Do those exist?) Else wise, the way I go about getting blighted essence is by killing undead for decons and getting 1 unit of blighted essence from each one that I tear apart.

    What I'm getting at is, for certain things that require blighted essence, even if there is such a thing as a blighted/undead Wisp from which you can harvest them from, the option to collect them from decons should be stated outright.

    I fear you are confusing blight cores (what you get deconning blighted items) with blighted essence. They are not the same thing. Far as I know there aren't blighted wisps in game. You can find blighted essence residue on the ground (blighted pale in dead pool) or as drops from fighting undead of the appropriate level you want blighted essence.

    It is possible to craft blight cores as well as receive them via deconing blighted gear. You will need a couple forms, the blighted orb form to process the essence you collect hunting into orbs. Then the blight core formula to craft those blighted orbs into cores. The cores are used in creating items with the blighted formula you may run into. Crafting blighted gear has random effects, most will be duds you turn around and decon but now and then you get something interesting.


    Dracaena

  19. #39

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracaena View Post
    I fear you are confusing blight cores (what you get deconning blighted items) with blighted essence. They are not the same thing. Far as I know there aren't blighted wisps in game. You can find blighted essence residue on the ground (blighted pale in dead pool) or as drops from fighting undead of the appropriate level you want blighted essence.

    It is possible to craft blight cores as well as receive them via deconing blighted gear. You will need a couple forms, the blighted orb form to process the essence you collect hunting into orbs. Then the blight core formula to craft those blighted orbs into cores. The cores are used in creating items with the blighted formula you may run into. Crafting blighted gear has random effects, most will be duds you turn around and decon but now and then you get something interesting.


    Dracaena
    Ah, you're probably right, now that I think about it. I haven't any on my character anymore, so I couldn't check. Certainly showcases just how far my knowledge goes (which, as I stated, isn't very far at all). Sorry about all that pointless rambling then.

    My intention behind my exemplar-suggestion still stands though, even if the example itself was a bit... wrong.
    Chaos: Gael Tycarren--Dragon
    "I just... want to remember."

  20. #40

    Default Re: Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

    I am not much of a forum talker, so my statements will be brief. (probably)

    First of all, the tutorials were NOT as clear and concise to me as you guys, and I have to admit... I'm considered to be quite the bright and intuitive person in my community.

    Here's why:

    1) Difficult tutorial activation. Activation range needs to be much larger in some areas, (especially hunting grulets; did you know that if you go down to the end first it won't pop up, even though you are standing right next to deer and grulets?) that way players won't go on a scavenger hunt for it (like me.) Most players won't do this, because they won't realize something's missing.

    2) Vague Instructions. It's great that the instructions know what to do, but they don't tell you enough about how to get to the appropriate windows. (the functions are displayed at the windows.) This is a serious thing, players don't know how to do stuff in game. It took me 1h 30min just to figure out how to do the hot keys to do one step. (horizons must be blessed to have a stubborn player like me!) Actually, it was because I didn't know how to equip the silly abilities to do what i needed to do... not good.

    3) Inability to re-activate tutorials without a hacking/programming ability. The developers of the game may not realize it, but we noobies WANT the tutorials back after making them go away. The problem is not in us accidentally telling the window to "go away", it's not letting us bring it back via GUI!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth
    ...The problem here is that people often close the tutorial. You cannot teach people to play the game if they ignore the tutorial....
    My response here is that we noobies make mistakes. Nobody can expect us to adhere to the TQS (Total Quality Strategy) when most of us don't even know it exists. (If you have to ask, "what's the TQS strategy?" then you are proving my point.) See Reason #3.

    I would like to say that there is also some "common knowledge" that players don't know (for example, trading with the dragon craft trainer, or any other trainer, was unknown to me untill someone mentioned it to me today. that was why I was so frustrated last year) that need to be stressed via tutorials and help guides. There should also be an easily acessible manual by THE DEVELOPERS (If you do, just say it; if so I apologize.)

    P.S. Last year, I did make the mistake of telling it to go away. Woe to me for doing so! This year, I did not make such a foolhearty decicion.

    Moderator Note: Removed the "green" color for readability so that good feedback can be read without eye strain
    Last edited by Velea; November 18th, 2010 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Adding an important P.S.

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