Don't know if I suggested this before.

[Dhalin]

I know the rules say not to suggest something that has already been suggested, but I don't recall if I ever made this suggestion.

After recent talk on the rants forum, more than one person agree that trying to cast spells on oneself while in the thick of battle is pretty clunky and cumbersome.

I propose what sounds like an easy-to-implement change, at least from the eyes of someone who does not have access to the code and doesn't know how exactly the game handles such things. But given some programming knowledge, it doesn't sound too terribly hard in theory to execute:

Anytime a beneficial spell or ability (Buff, Heal, Cleanse) is attempted to be cast, the game obviously and very logically checks the player's current target. If the player has himself or another player targeted, it casts the spell.

If not, it returns an error: Invalid target for xxxxxx.

What I propose:

Instead of returning that error, have the spell cast upon the player trying to cast it automatically instead. This could be switched on or off by an option, if desired.

That way, I'd be fighting something, have a mob targeted, and attempt to cast, say Revitalize, the game knows the monster I have targeted is not a valid target for Revitalize, and would then have the spell cast upon myself instead. Same would be true if I had no target at all (removing the need to target myself beforehand).

This would allow players to not need to make 2 sets of hotkeys (one for healing themselves, the other for healing others) and make battle a LOT easier.

[Akrion]

A neat idea, at least in face of the current targeting system. The thing I would enjoy most about something like this is if I have a primary target among a number of other targets, deselecting it to heal myself can make re-selecting it a challenge, as it can be difficult to click a specific target when it's among a number of other targets, and f10 wouldn't work very well in that situation either.

However, I can perhaps see the desire to require the player to select themselves for the sake of making it more challenging. It would be one of the few 'real' challenges among many of the 'fake' ones. x3

As for the programming, no, it shouldn't be too difficult to implement because there already exists code for determining correct or incorrect targets based on what spells you use. It would only require code to default incorrect spells cast on hostile targets to the player.

[Guaran]

Sounds a bit too much like an "easy button"

If they want to do it I would think this is on the bottom of the pony list pile, priority wise.

[Dhalin]

Sounds a bit too much like an "easy button"

If they want to do it I would think this is on the bottom of the pony list pile, priority wise.

If they want to make mobs a little harder to compensate, I wouldn't be against it.

I would just rather that an archaic, clunky UI not be the source of challenge.

It should be on the very *top* of said lists; a good, polished, easy-to-control UI is one of the most important things in a game.

When something like this is lacking from the UI, it is time to fix it. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to cast beneficial spells on ourselves without de-selecting whatever we're fighting.

[Dragonboy]

To be honest... I like this UI more then those used in WoW or LOTR online.
However I do agree that macro creation aught to be more expanded that we could at least get the same mob as before after healing instead of having almost finished one off and after the heal suddenly a fully healed friend is selected.

[Guaran]

Make a hotkey with "cycle nearest enemy":

/cne

Clink the hotkey it selects nearest enemy, click it again it chooses the next. etc. If you got more than 7 or 8 on you, you either shouldn't care cause the mobs are far below you and the kill order doesn't matter, or you are in over your head and will likely die anyway.

Someone should test it. I know /cne didn't used to work but I think it got fixed. I know /snc works (Select Nearest Corpse).

Horizons has a better UI than many games, even better than newer games. So easy to customize, make macros, etc.

A work around for those who get overwhelmed by combat, or trouble finding a mob in a pile would be setscale. Again, make a hotkey: text command:

/setscale 4

While engaged in a mob kill that you want to come back to after healing yourself, click this key to make the mob larger. Will then be much easier to re-aquire if clicking on a pile of blights for example. Requires adding setscale command to a file, which can be found explained in other threads (do a search).

[hallucin8]

/cne actually works!!
As hard as it might be for a multiclassed ped to forfeit a hotkey for this, I certainly won't be going back. Thank you very much G.

[Shinkuu]

Make a hotkey with "cycle nearest enemy":

/cne

Clink the hotkey it selects nearest enemy, click it again it chooses the next. etc. If you got more than 7 or 8 on you, you either shouldn't care cause the mobs are far below you and the kill order doesn't matter, or you are in over your head and will likely die anyway.

Someone should test it. I know /cne didn't used to work but I think it got fixed. I know /snc works (Select Nearest Corpse).

Horizons has a better UI than many games, even better than newer games. So easy to customize, make macros, etc.

A work around for those who get overwhelmed by combat, or trouble finding a mob in a pile would be setscale. Again, make a hotkey: text command:

/setscale 4

While engaged in a mob kill that you want to come back to after healing yourself, click this key to make the mob larger. Will then be much easier to re-aquire if clicking on a pile of blights for example. Requires adding setscale command to a file, which can be found explained in other threads (do a search).

So instead of having an actual fix you are suggesting using an outside add on as a work around? That seems a bit lame to be honest.

If we could even see some representation of the HP of monsters (like a health bar over their heads) then we could see which one we were hammering but right now there is no way to know who is who until you click on them again.

It is not an easy button, it is just common sense. If you are fighting on a RL battle field you are not going to fail to notice that Object A is bleeding out various Holes while Object B is not and thus it was Object A who you were attacking.

In every other MMORPG I have played not only is there a health bar but you also can see what Debuffs/Buffs are on a target. Sometimes it is linked to an ability but usually it is something anyone can do. This game acts like it is being very generous to allow you to even see their HP when you select them.

[hallucin8]

So instead of having an actual fix you are suggesting using an outside add on as a work around?

/cne is not and outside add on. It is an inbuilt function already in game that simply requires you to type it, or better yet, simply make into a hotkey.

Set scale is also available however, it requires you to edit a file to make it useable ingame.

Hope that helps

[Raptress]

I support the addition of the feature described in the OP. Target reselection has always been a common gripe in this game, and I think removing one layer of clunkiness isn't really what should be considered an "easy button". Sounds more like a feature that should be there to begin with to me. Reselecting the right target with a UI that doesn't make it terribly easy or fast to do so is not what I would include under the umbrella of "intended game difficulty."

[Shian]

I support the addition of the feature described in the OP. Target reselection has always been a common gripe in this game, and I think removing one layer of clunkiness isn't really what should be considered an "easy button". Sounds more like a feature that should be there to begin with to me. Reselecting the right target with a UI that doesn't make it terribly easy or fast to do so is not what I would include under the umbrella of "intended game difficulty."

Me too. Too short

[Frith-Rae]

I support the addition of the feature described in the OP. Target reselection has always been a common gripe in this game, and I think removing one layer of clunkiness isn't really what should be considered an "easy button". Sounds more like a feature that should be there to begin with to me. Reselecting the right target with a UI that doesn't make it terribly easy or fast to do so is not what I would include under the umbrella of "intended game difficulty."

Exactly!

This is a feature that is not only pretty standard in all MMOs, but all single player FPS and RPGs as well. Its been many many many a year where any game BUT this one required me to click on myself to heal myself in the middle of a battle.

Keeping in mind we aren't asking for you to auto-target anyone in a group who needs healing.

Its simply the ability for the game to acknowledge "hey you're in a fight, you cast heal, clearly you don't want to heal the mob you want to heal yourself..." This doesn't effect group healing selection and such.

Istaria seems to be the last holdout in this outdated mechanic. One more "clunky" mechanic issue that frustrates the player - players we're already trying to keep anyway.

Yes, it is possible to apply a workaround in game - and yes I do consider that a WORKAROUND. Anything you want to do in a game that *requires* you to setup slash commands for, is a work-around (or unintended feature lol).

But barring someone searching these forums to find that out - they aren't going to know.

That is not an acceptable alternative to a mechanic that is really rather basic.

[Guaran]

After thinking a bit more about it, I think the idea is good in that it doesn't necessarily make a fight too easy, just working with the interface a tad less cumbersome in an intense battle.

The group heal spell is already an always "cast on self" spell, and you do not need to select yourself to use it. However, converting the other heals to work this way would have one bad side effect. If cleanse is teched onto a heal and its a cast on self spell, the cleanse doesn't work if you target a friendly when casting it. Not sure the cleanse even works when targeting yourself with the group health spell. So just saying, if the dev's tried to implement this somehow, make sure the cleanse tech on the spells are not negatively affected.

In all honesty this still feels to me like a low priority item. There's not too many situations where this would be a big help. And since we can easily work around it for now...

One example I can think of where is can be critical what target you have, and re-acquiring can be difficult (due not only to a pile of mobs but a pile of players) would be when hunting Shaloth. But by the time a player gets to this point in the game, they should understand some ways to work effciently with the interface. And really, you would be selecting other players anyway (the OP's point only really applies to solo hunts against multiple mobs). For a Shaloth hunt, all the players should have a "/select shaloth" hotkey set up, so that if theres a pile of other mylocs in the way she can be re-targeted easily and quickly. Note that /cne would also work in this situation, but there could be 10 mobs to cycle thru.

Thinking a bit more about it, I think the best way to address this would be to not mess with the healing spells, but instead make an addition to the group window. A "players current/last target" item that sits to the side of the players name, and works just like the "current target" window for the main player. Implementing it in the group window instead of the main target window allows this change to not only assist in solo situations but also in group situations, and in assisting group members with clicks in the UI near the group window, instead of say keyboard keys for "assist target". So it would be an additional target window thats integrated into the group window, along side the list of players, that lists the players current or last enemy target, and can be clicked on to select that target. Would also allow "at a glance" status of what all members of the group are doing. In the situation in the OP where its a player solo hunting, he would just need to be in a group with himself to utilize the capability. And he would be used to using it in this way, and therefore be ready when in a group situation to use the same UI mechanics.

[Nord]

Thanks Dhalin for bringing it up. I was helping a new player out (first MMO) and she found this to very unlogical. I consider this a bug that should be fixed. /played frpg for nearly 30 years

[Sleel]

How is it so hard to edit your hotkey to select self first, then cast whatever spell on yourself? As for switching back to enemy. A target nearest enemy hotkey takes care of that. Ya use that to find whatever ooglie booglie is nearby but outta sight anyway.

[Shian]

How is it so hard to edit your hotkey to select self first, then cast whatever spell on yourself?

Because sometimes I don't need my heals, but a group mate does? The irritation/beauty of these heals is that they can be cast on yourself or a groupmate.

As for switching back to enemy. A target nearest enemy hotkey takes care of that. Ya use that to find whatever ooglie booglie is nearby but outta sight anyway.

Uhh.. no.
When you're surrounded by 10+golems and they all look the same and they all move... Sometimes nearest target is not the enemy you were just fighting. Now good luck finding that enemy again. With every second it takes fighting the UI by frantically clicking on each golem, that's many precious seconds of attacks you could be doing to ease the DPS coming your way.

[Sleel]

Then there is the cycle enemy command, never use it cause I find it easier to take a step toward the critter I was bashing and click nearset hotkey again. As for needing a heal for another player, I use a second hotkey for that, which I only set up temporarily as I tend to not group.

Sure, you could waste time coding to autoselect people in your group to heal, if not yourself, but which person in group, when more the 2 in it, to autoselect. Then you have the 'group' fights where everyone isn't in a group but singles working together since some high ranker will wipe out the xp for the lowbies. How many different permutations are they sposed to custom code for?


Sleel

[Dragonboy]

We already have a group screen were we can select people in our group for healing.
Why not create a screen with mobs who are attacking you. Or maybe when in a group fight all mobs withing a 10m radius surrounding you.

However if /cne works that could be a good option.

[Vortura]

This would allow players to not need to make 2 sets of hotkeys (one for healing themselves, the other for healing others) and make battle a LOT easier.

Please explain why you need two sets of hotkeys for healing? Do you mean you'd create a defined set of healing hotkeys for every member of a group?

As a Healer I only use one set that's been dragged and dropped from the Abilities/Spellbook.
1. Minor Health
2. Health
3. Major Health
4. Revitalize
5. Improved Revitalize
6. Group Instant Heal
7. Group Health
8. Superior Heal
9. Instant Heal
10. Full Heal

Selecting group members is done by hitting F1 to F8. If there's more than 8 in my group, I am #9 and can already select myself, #10 is just unlucky
I use this as my active hotkey bar, so I only need to press the relevant number key (1,2,3...9,0) for the spell/ability to process. Using the mouse to select players and click hotkeys is just too slow when you're healing groups.


I just think there needs to be a couple more /select type commands:
Current ones I can think of:
/SelectNearestEnemy
/SelectSelf
/CycleNextEnemy
/SelectNearestCorpse

New ones:
/CyclePreviousEnemy - complements /CycleNextEnemy. Moves "backward" instead of "forward" through the available enemies.
/SelectLastEnemy - selects the last targetted enemy, dead or alive. If you've already got an enemy targetted, it stays selected.


The reason why I would not want the current targetting system adjusted as suggested by the OP is because:

1. It requires fiddling about with code, choosing which spells and abilities would be allowed to behave in the manner described etc.
This takes time for the Devs to plan, program, debug, test and of course waiting by us for it to be patched. If it fails to work as intended the first time it gets patched to live, they've potentially screwed over every player in the game.

2. /SelectLastEnemy would give you what you need. Select yourself or your wounded group member and use your heal. As heals take time to process, you hit your /SelectLastEnemy macro button (doesn't have to be on a hotkey bar, just bind a key) and resume your attack.


Just give us a quick fix for this one, not something that may break what might already be a very fragile bit of nightmare spaghetti code.


and as a postscript to this one...

Adjustments to the existing /select command:

/select xxxxxx - where xxxxxx is your defined critter name, eg "Blue Vexator". It selects either a living "Blue Vexator" or dead "(Blue Vexator)", whichever is closest. I would prefer if it only selected the living one. We already have /SNC for selecting dead things.

[Dhalin]

I need two sets of hotkeys, because:

Set A:

Select Self
Cast Heal
Select Nearest Enemy

Set B is just dragged from the ability bar.

fumbling about for the F1 key while in a heated battle is just an extra keypress I DON'T need. Hitting ONE button to cast a heal on myself makes things a lot easier, but, will not allow me to heal someone else.

Implementing my suggestion would allow me to get rid of Set A.