Roleplay

[Miravlix]

I normally think there should be room for most types of roleplay on order, but there is an annoying group of people that constantly break Istarian lore, now if that what all they did, it would be fine, but they also have set themself up as roleplaying police and sit around in NT pouncing on every minor mistake by the newbies.

They also has issues with understanding that, that just playing the game and levelling and doing quests or building your lair is roleplaying, so what if levels and stuff isn't perfectly real world realistic, it's a fantasy game, it's not realistic at all, so for the sake of making roleplaying and working together work seamlessly some realism requirement has to be ignore. It becomes impossible to keep the roleplay flowing if 9/10 of the game has to be considered OOC.

[Sereamha]

I suppose the annoying group you speak of is every single other player XD

I personally try to keep as close to lore as possible, and acutally, most people do. We consider leveling and crafting as part of your character, of course......not sure why you would think otherwise. Many times a dragon as wandered into the RP channel covered in sandstone dust because they have been crafting ^^

By lore, not sure exactly what your issue is. I do recall you saying that it is lore that dragons never, ever attack or harm each other? I have not seen that stated once in official lore. The Helian and Lunus did agree to grudgingly accept the other, but that doesn't mean that all conflicts (espeically those that have nothing to do with Lunus or Helian beliefs) must be non-exsistant.

[Starstilanxs]

Lore is being broken by simply having a gifted attack another gifted, this is how it tends to be. However, every one of my characters are as close to the Istarian lore as I can be, but there is no way you can tell everyone on the server to follow lore to the key point.

Adressing the second issue, you say there are roleplay police in NT? When someone types 'u' instead of 'you' or has smilies instead of actually typing out "smiles" that breaks immersion and as such, most everyone who roleplays will inform them of this. If you look at the rules, it states that you should ask them to refrain from doing so. The rules that are actually laid out for Order are extremely strict on what you can and can not do but we don't follow those to the precise word. In fact, I would say we follow about 15% of the rules given.

Everyone has a right to roleplay out their character by crafting, lairshaping, questing, talking to NPC's, this has -always- been the case and no one says anything against it. But it could be put into terms such as "I have gained more seasons of experiance!" vs. "I have leveled a bunch!" Immersion is the key point in roleplay, that is why it is called -roleplay-. You are playing out a character who is in a fantasy world that is completely unaware that they are in a game.

[Raptress]

I normally think there should be room for most types of roleplay on order, but there is an annoying group of people that constantly break Istarian lore, now if that what all they did, it would be fine, but they also have set themself up as roleplaying police and sit around in NT pouncing on every minor mistake by the newbies.

Pretty much everybody is at least skirting around "breaking lore" no matter what character they're playing. I can only assume that you are talking about people that play things like (non-fire) elemental dragons, star-dragons, or some sort of creature that doesn't exist in Istaria in any form, like gryphons.

Most of the "RP policing" (to use the word in a positive light for once, since it always seems to be used negatively) I've seen has mostly had to do with asking people to please use OOC brackets and not use chat speak, which I think are totally reasonable things to ask a player to do.

I have seen two negative instances of "RP policing" recently, but only one of them could I really say was all that rude. The other was simply that people only pointed out the mistake; they did not offer to help correct it.

If one actually reads the roleplaying policy that's stickied here on this board, one would see that Order isn't half as strict as that document says it should be.

They also has issues with understanding that, that just playing the game and levelling and doing quests or building your lair is roleplaying... It becomes impossible to keep the roleplay flowing if 9/10 of the game has to be considered OOC.

I don't know about everyone else, but I certainly consider what I do in the game to be IC. My characters may enter RP chat smelling of ash because they just came from Dralk to attend a lesson with one of the trainers there. They might discuss planning out their lair or how much is left to work on it. I've even had characters mention specifics of certain quests they've done.

The important thing is to phrase these things in a way that doesn't sound like you're talking game mechanics. Like Starstilanxs said, immersion is a big part of RP.

It's "I just got to level 5." versus "After a long day defending the crafters at New Trismus' wood-working shelter from the encroaching cedar treants, I feel I have reached my fifth season of combat."

You don't have to be that detailed (it's nice though), but even if all you do is replace the word "level" with the generally-accepted stand-in "season", it helps.

[Scaleth Drakescale]

My biggest pet peeve in Istaria; Dragons with fur. It makes me ROFL at the complete lore fail, but at the same time I want to burn all their fur off. :|

[LungTien Temeraire]

My biggest pet peeve in Istaria; Dragons with fur. It makes me ROFL at the complete lore fail, but at the same time I want to burn all their fur off. :|

If you don't like a roleplay style or a character, it is simple: ignore it and go on your side, while the concerned roleplayer goes on his/her and roleplays with those who enjoy interacting with him/her. You don't have to interact with them if you don't want, but let them roleplay as they wish. The lore is not only broken by furred dragons, but too by demon dragons, dragons who can turn into smoke or something else, ...
The respect is mutual and, as long as this isn't about a flying giant hamster or a dragon god of space, there shouldn't be any issue.

[Sereamha]

The character I have that has fur isn't even a dragon at all XD She has no dragon blood in her whatsoever hehe ^^

I do understand what ya mean though. If a normal Istarian dragon is suddenly sprouts fur, despite having scales which would prevent hair growth mind you, it is pretty hilarious.

[BrightCat]

I don't really mind lore being bent/broken so long as it is not something completely outrageous like "giant flying hamsters or space dragon gods" as LungTien said and it's done well. I suppose Selarth counts as a character that breaks lore because I'm fairly certain that there hasn't been any lore accounts of a Gifted who is blighted, but not undead or rotting. I know bipeds can use blight, but that's just manipulating blight energy and they aren't infected with it as far as I know.

[Veya]

Somebody called?

Hee.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I think we could add Hraefn, too.
This one can be seen on this drawing:

http://nambroth.deviantart.com/art/H...ia+vesper&qo=0

[Kaerisk]

Lawlz.

Alright now. Some rules should be maintained, such as the u=you thing, but some simply cannot be. It is impossible to tell the giant flying hamster that it does not exist. Your best option in these circumstances is to go on doing what you like and ignore the RP police. Likewise, the RP Police will ignore you...

This is pretty much how Order has existed as long as it has. Ultimately, there are many different little groups that are cloistered from the server at large with their own RP storylines. In many ways, this works. I've personally never been satisfied with it, which is why I go out of my way to try to create world events that everyone can participate in, but even those sometimes end up catering to a certain group or groups. It is the nature of creativity - we create, and we love what we create. And when others judge that creation, we find ourselves injured emotionally, even if indirectly. And so we group together with those that can appreciate what we have created.

Please don't get frustrated. I know that it can be off-putting to see some groups lord over the lore. Doubtless many have felt that way about my own historian, Maekrux, who has certainly in the past lorded over lore.

I'd not like this to turn into a match of pointing fingers, because it solves nothing to do so. If nothing constructive on the matter can be posted, it is enough to have brought it to our attention.

[Xepher]

-x-Rides in on her police cargo disk.-x-

More problems on Order? =P

Sereamha, Star and Raptress have already gotten the point across and cleared things. I just wanted to pop in and lend my support to them, and to my 'Police' force x] Only thing I'll add is that indeed, many of us bend or break the lore, but we do so in ways that don't induce eyerolling or groans of annoyance, and many of us also try to make our characters unique and fun/interesting to interract with, versus the bandwagon hoppers and/or people who play utterly ridiculous characters. Like blighted vampire dragons. (Ohh the memories!) Furthermore, none of us have any problem with crafting, adventuring and the like being in-character. As stated though, it's all about how you go about presenting it.

It may be a game, and it may be of the fantasy genre, but you have to keep in mind that as a roleplayer, this unrealistic fantasy world is entirely real to your character. You have to be realistic in ways that would be realistic to this world, ya dig?

Also, Lung; There was absolutely no need to point out which dragons have fur and post that picture, amazing as it is.

[LungTien Temeraire]

Sereamha, Star and Raptress have already gotten the point across and cleared things. I just wanted to pop in and lend my support to them, and to my 'Police' force x] Only thing I'll add is that indeed, many of us bend or break the lore, but we do so in ways that don't induce eyerolling or groans of annoyance, and many of us also try to make our characters unique and fun/interesting to interract with, versus the bandwagon hoppers and/or people who play utterly ridiculous characters. Like blighted vampire dragons. (Ohh the memories!) Furthermore, none of us have any problem with crafting, adventuring and the like being in-character. As stated though, it's all about how you go about presenting it.

This is mostly a matter of tastes. Nobody can please to everyone, and as long as there is a group of people who enjoys someone's roleplay and doesn't have issues interacting with it, this should be fine. Those who don't like just have to ignore it and stay with their own groups. That someone dislikes one's character or RP doesn't mean this character/RP is bad.

It may be a game, and it may be of the fantasy genre, but you have to keep in mind that as a roleplayer, this unrealistic fantasy world is entirely real to your character. You have to be realistic in ways that would be realistic to this world, ya dig?

It might depend of the point of view about how one sees realistic ways of the concerned fantasy world.

Also, Lung; There was absolutely no need to point out which dragons have fur and post that picture, amazing as it is.

That was just to go with my words, and it doesn't mean I'm against this kind of dragons. On the contrary, I find it original.

[Raptress]

That was just to go with my words, and it doesn't mean I'm against this kind of dragons. On the contrary, I find it original.

I think the point was that there's no need to be naming names here. Stuff like that never ends well, no matter the intentions.

It might depend of the point of view about how one sees realistic ways of the concerned fantasy world.

Well, sure, it's all subjective, and there will always be people who will RP whatever they like regardless of what anyone else thinks. I cannot and will not say that people are not allowed to RP a "giant flying hamster." But I definitely will say that I won't be involved with that RP, and that others may say the same thing.

Yes, the reality of a fantasy world is subjective, but if you want a character to be accepted outside of a small group of friends, then it really ought to at least attempt to tie itself to game lore.

[Eelime]

I think what Miravlix is (mostly) having a problem with is the people that go to NT and do nothing but sit there and RP or talk in other channels, and then when a newbie comes around and ask something in the main/public channel (by main, I mean the chat tab that is labeled "main") that isn't in character, instead of helping them, or suggesting how they could correctly get an answer, they just attack the newbie for it.

Now, I could understand it if they actually helped the newbie, such as tell them how they asked wrongly (OOC), how they can do it correctly, and then answer. But that's not what happens.

They will scold the newbie for doing something wrong without giving an explanation (other than "that's against the rules") and then attack anyone who has an opinion differing their own, calling them "Troll" and other names, which are vulgar in nature. (from what I've witnessed). Telling them to mind their own business.

And the people don't come to NT to role play, they're specifically said they don't want to roleplay in NT (NT being New Trismus) for a few reasons.


To me, it just seems like the "Police squad" goes there becuase they want a power trip, "enforcing" the rules (which is impossible for them as they have no power nor no right to "enforce" anything).


Another thing is, they do this in NT, which is by definition a newbie training zone. Why would you go there just to attack newbies about using internet short-hands or smilies?

It's pretty obvious that they're just there to troll and harass newbies. And if that's not what they're there for, they have an odd way of showing it.

[Starstilanxs]

I think what Miravlix is (mostly) having a problem with is the people that go to NT and do nothing but sit there and RP or talk in other channels, and then when a newbie comes around and ask something in the main/public channel (by main, I mean the chat tab that is labeled "main") that isn't in character, instead of helping them, or suggesting how they could correctly get an answer, they just attack the newbie for it.

Now, I could understand it if they actually helped the newbie, such as tell them how they asked wrongly (OOC), how they can do it correctly, and then answer. But that's not what happens.

They will scold the newbie for doing something wrong without giving an explanation (other than "that's against the rules") and then attack anyone who has an opinion differing their own, calling them "Troll" and other names, which are vulgar in nature. (from what I've witnessed). Telling them to mind their own business.

And the people don't come to NT to role play, they're specifically said they don't want to roleplay in NT (NT being New Trismus) for a few reasons.


To me, it just seems like the "Police squad" goes there becuase they want a power trip, "enforcing" the rules (which is impossible for them as they have no power nor no right to "enforce" anything).


Another thing is, they do this in NT, which is by definition a newbie training zone. Why would you go there just to attack newbies about using internet short-hands or smilies?

It's pretty obvious that they're just there to troll and harass newbies. And if that's not what they're there for, they have an odd way of showing it.

That isn't it at all by any means. We help newbies who are willing to respect the rules and respect that they are on a role-playing server. Many of them blatantly ignore the players who ask nicely to refrain from using OOC speak without brackets.

Now, I pointed this out in the previous paragraph, Order is an RP server, every area in the game is denoted as RP regardless if it is a newbie zone or not.

Another thing that I did point out in my first post is that we are not nearly as strict as the rules state we should be. In the actual document it states that if someone does not follow the rules to the practical key and breaks them continuously, we should report them to the staff and administrators via support tickets. We don't do this because we give them a chance, more than we likely should in some cases.

[Xepher]

I will try very hard to make this as clear as blatant as possible, because it seems like this issue is always brought up, even though it hardly even exists.


Nobody on the Order server bashes newbies for asking questions. NOBODY.

All of us are more than willing to answer questions and guide people in the right direction. However, we are also willing to extend RP advice when we see people doing it 'incorrectly' (as in not even the most basic of standards) and make sure they know about how to keep IC and OOC talk separate.

The only people we attack, are the ones who are rude, throw insults at us when we try to guide them, and are otherwise the kind of people we really wish wouldn't come to our server but inevitably do so anyways.

Sorry, but if someone refuses to give me or my fellow 'elder' players any kind of respect, or tries to pretend that it makes sense to come into a Roleplaying server and then claim that Roleplaying is stupid and we are as well, then I am going to get nasty.

[Eelime]

I will try very hard to make this as clear as blatant as possible, because it seems like this issue is always brought up, even though it hardly even exists.


Nobody on the Order server bashes newbies for asking questions. NOBODY.

All of us are more than willing to answer questions and guide people in the right direction. However, we are also willing to extend RP advice when we see people doing it 'incorrectly' (as in not even the most basic of standards) and make sure they know about how to keep IC and OOC talk separate.

The only people we attack, are the ones who are rude, throw insults at us when we try to guide them, and are otherwise the kind of people we really wish wouldn't come to our server but inevitably do so anyways.

Sorry, but if someone refuses to give me or my fellow 'elder' players any kind of respect, or tries to pretend that it makes sense to come into a Roleplaying server and then claim that Roleplaying is stupid and we are as well, then I am going to get nasty.

So, there seems to be an issue that is brought up a lot, but somehow doesn't exist?

Also, to me, it seems like the "RP police" attack anyone that goes against them in anyway. Granted I have a very limited experience with them (non-existent) and most of my observations are just that; me witnessing or seeing the "police" deal with newbies, or other long-time players, that they don't like.

And, if I, someone who has been on the server for just over a week, gets a feeling that the "police" (or rather, the people that sit in NT and lord over the newbies) are trolling, or attack people and overact to people using smilies and shorthand in chat, than I'm sure a lot of new people that come to Order do.

Like I said, what I witnessed was a few "elders" going about a situation in a totally wrong way, in such a way that one can't assume that they meant things to go that way. When you come across a newbie using smilies, incorrect spellings, shorthands, etc... you should approach it carefully, not something like "Don't use smilies, it's against the rules". For one, you are just other players, and the people you are trying to "police" have no idea who you are, so it comes off as extremely rude when you try to tell them that they're doing something wrong and tell them that they can get in trouble/banned for doing what they're doing.

You're just players. You should try to encourage the rules, not enforce them, as that just pisses a lot of people off. Sure, it doesn't piss off people that have been here for a while, or the people that like you/you like, or people who just don't give a crap about what a couple of "elders" sitting around NT say, but to some, it can come off as extremely rude. And, in those situations, people will be rude back, which causes the "police" to become rude.

And, when someone tries to step in and defend the newbie, or try to fix the situation, they are told "You have no right to get into this argument, you aren't a part of it". Which will then cause more problems, as that statement is utter bullcrap. Then it's escalate to the point that the newbie that was supposed to be helped gets insulted and then gets no help, and there is an arguement going on, people calling others trolls, using vulgar language to insult other members (by that I mean curse words), and even worse stuff. And then, to top it all off, the "police" state that they have no intention of role playing in NT, so one can only assume that they went there just to cause this sort of situation.


Now, I don't know if the people I witnessed were part of your "police squad", or if you or anyone else in this thread were one of them, but if you can see past your self-righteousness, you'll see that the situation I described is not acceptable, for any reason. Even if a newbie came up to you and started calling you horrible names for no reason. You are just what you claim to be "elders" and should know better. Most of you seem to be older people (in real life) and should have enough life experience by now to realize the problems that can be caused by someone trying to "enforce" or "force" rules on other people, when you have nothing more than a self-proclaimed title to back you, as that will just cause problems.


I'm not sure, but I think there is an ignore function in Istaria, so if a newbie is really causing you problems, just add them to your ignore list and act like they aren't there. You're all old enough to know that you "don't say anything if you don't have something nice to say". Just because some people are to stupid to know this very basic rule of life doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't follow it.




Now, please don't misunderstand this post. I'm not saying that the "elders" of the server should just bend over backwards and go out of their way to help/guide a disruptive newbie, but if you can't help them, or can't put up with them, ignore them and/or report them to the admins. It helps no one if an argument gets started. It just causes the elders to get angry when they don't want to, causes the newbie to not like Istaria anymore, or at least not the Order server, and might even cause Istaria/the Order server to gain a bad name for pushing/bashing/attacking anyone that the "elders" of the server don't like.

[Starstilanxs]

This is a chatlog and an example of how this whole situation started, I was there that day. Since we are to the point where you, Eelime, seem to want to absolutely -insist- that the people who try to help and where there that day are in the wrong and why the argument branched out as it did. This is a snip of it. **'s are to avoid naming anyone.

** says, '<!--color r=.3 g=.3 b=1.0> hello'
** says, 'hello '
** says, 'hello'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Please use brackets guys.))'
** says, '( gee srry)'
** says, '(sorry, i am ever in role play, i am sorry you do like it)'
** says, '<!--color r=.3 g=.3 b=1.0> (i was simply saying hello "gives a shrug and then wanders off '
** says, '(yes, and it was rp'
** says, ')'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Don't take offense, it was a simple reminder >.>))'
** says, '(V_V k)'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((But in RP you usually don't use 's and stuff.))'
** says, '<!--color r=.0 b=.0 g=.9> (( Incorrect reminder so an appoligy would be appropiate ))'
** says, '(well.......i am experienced in role play.....i ll stay on it )'
** says, '<!--color r=.0 b=.0 g=.9> (( It's a textual interface, whats wrong with enhancing it with facial expressions? ))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Excuse me? No, I am not appologizing for reminding someone of the rules))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((You can type out a description easily to smile at someone, not use a smily or something of that sort, **.))'

The conversation gradually degraded into an argument at this point.

As I said, we really do try and help the newbies, but when others jump at the people who where asking nicely to refrain from using stuff such as smilies in RP. Then you have a problem, you can see they even attempted to point out the mistake and help.

[Raptress]

Trying to help new players become better roleplayers/point out brackets/etc. is tricky business. You have to be very, very careful how you phrase things and even then you might get someone on your case for even saying anything, no matter how nice you try to be about it. Some of the "police" (and this whole "police" thing is not organized in any way that I'm aware of. Using it as a title is more an in-joke than trying to claim any sort of authority, I think) probably have gotten a little fed up with what they normally have to deal with when they step up and put their reputations on the line to try to make Order a better place for RP. It's a truly thankless job most of the time.

Yes, things can go wrong and descend into an argument. That doesn't have to mean that someone is "trolling". People are people, and people tend to defend their opinions. I'm not saying that that makes things like vulgar language okay by any means, but these things happen.

Also, just because someone is sitting in NT and doesn't want to RP does not mean they are there to cause problems. They were more than likely there to try to help newbies, since.. NT is where newbies are.

Edit: If the exchange above in Stars' post is indeed the one that Eelime is referring to, then I have to say it looks like things took a downward turn on the part of someone other than the "policeman." The "police" posts seem about as polite as one can expect until someone makes a rather rude remark. That's when things went downhill.