Overpowered Characters

[Shinkuu]

Speaking of which - it is annoying…I am not sure if I am the only one who has encountered this or seen this. But people seem to complain when a character either breaks lore or is absurdly powerful…but I keep hearing about these characters that COMPLETELY go against lore, and/or are superultrapowerful, or are not Gifted (which people seem to complain about sometimes) and are usually going about killing things super-efficiantly. Yet people are ok with this. What if someone does not find this fair?

Trust me... I do not find that acceptable in many cases without a seriously good reason for it.

To date Shinkuu is the only one who ever killed another PC and to say "Kill" is slightly incorrect. It was a voided monster and she destroyed its tangible form and sent it home more or less to Oblivion. (But with a creature like that can you say it ever lived?)

[Fix]

Trust me... I do not find that acceptable in many cases without a seriously good reason for it.

To date Shinkuu is the only one who ever killed another PC and to say "Kill" is slightly incorrect. It was a voided monster and she destroyed its tangible form and sent it home more or less to Oblivion. (But with a creature like that can you say it ever lived?)

And yet - no offence to you - I have heared others - also not mentioning who - complain that Shinkuu's a hullariously BAD character.

The question being - is it really other people that draw the line out of their own personal opinion? Or is it the truth?

[Akrion]

To date Shinkuu is the only one who ever killed another PC and to say "Kill" is slightly incorrect.

Do you mean of all your characters? Or in general? Because Akrion destroyed the soul another player character known as Oroboro that was part of a near year long RP with a number of other players. And I know there have definitely been others before him.

[LungTien Temeraire]

Do you mean of all your characters? Or in general? Because Akrion destroyed the soul another player character known as Oroboro that was part of a near year long RP with a number of other players. And I know there have definitely been others before him.

I think we can add Niveus, who has ended Selarth's existence.

[Frith-Rae]

My thoughts on the idea of "permakilled". To *me* this doesn't mean "overpowered" if you can't be killed.

Many RPers (not just here but it applies to here too) don't allow their characters to be perma-killed, usually because its not up to the *other* person, its up to the owner of the character. Many times weeks, months, sometimes years of thought and development has gone into a character and its not so simple as "oh you're right that would kill him, ok he's dead now - reroling." For many text based RPs (like in chat/games and in forums) that's just not reality (that unless you can be perma killed you're overpowered).

Now - I will say if you're playing or RPing a "villian" then its more likely the person has plans for the character to be able to be killed off - thereby resolving the storyline and allowing peole to moveon with the plot. But again, when that character is able to be killed off is more in the head of its owner and not those trying to "kill" it. He's not going to just let it be killed off in a week (for example) if its meant to drive months of plot.

And when you're dealing with lore like Istaria - where technically, all players are "gifted", then there is no "perma-death" so to speak. Of course players of their own characters can decide otherwise, but again I don't feel it should be the "expectation" that any character (good or evil) you come into contact with you "assume" that you can kill it if you tried hard enough. No, actually, most of the time, you can't - no matter what you may try to do.

Again this is different from tabletop where its stats and dice rolls and damage is clearly taken until the character is "Dead" (though in many games again they can be rezed or saved or somesuch even after death).

And if you are thinking some "villian" or someone has lived out their usefulness, then its up to you to talk OOC wise to the owner of the character - find out if they have any plans for any growth (i.e. he works to get converted to god), or if they have their own plans as to how the villian will fade from the plotline/die/etc. If it is true that they don't plan on the badguy changing, evolving, or disappearing - then you may have issues because noone likes to fight a villian they can never defeat or win against - the plot gets stale and people give up trying to do anything.

So still its all about balance, and communication!

[Sereamha]

I think we can add Niveus, who has ended Selarth's existence.

Yes he did XD Of course I did not do that without talking to Selarth's player A LOT about it. It was only when she agreed that I could did I make Niveus proceed. Always must ask permission, people ^^

[Darkwing_Duck]

There was only one time I was accused of palying an overpowered character and/or godmodding, and believe it or not, it was with falkor! One player got all huffy because I was RPing him with druidic powers, and this player, (not going to name names, and I havn`t had a problem after that incodent anyways so all was forgiven) told me I can do that because druid wasn`t an available school for dragons, and no dragon can have druidic powers.
But that was oh.. maybe 8 months to a year ago now?
Only other character I might have issues like this with would be Negadragoon. as he`s a teleporter/shadow/wraith type beast. hard to explain. but his powers are, he can transform into a shadowy mist, and travel in this state just about anywhere. including into the bodies of others. he`s also a bit of an alchemist, and a tinkerer. And also clinically insane xD
So I don`t RP him often due to fear I`ll be ridaculed about it.

[Shian]

Pfftt... my little one is learning Alchemy. So far, she's good at making explosives :P

[BrightCat]

I don't see why dragons can't ICly learn biped magic. I mean, there's really nothing to stop them if they're interested in it. The only thing that would is that dragon's view of bipeds and their magic.

[Shinkuu]

Do you mean of all your characters? Or in general? Because Akrion destroyed the soul another player character known as Oroboro that was part of a near year long RP with a number of other players. And I know there have definitely been others before him.

I mean of MY characters in this case not of all characters. Zarla ALMOST killed Drysten but he was healed and she died in the process lol. Still the best fight in RP I have ever taken part in. Should have saved the logs.

[Shinkuu]

My thoughts on the idea of "permakilled". To *me* this doesn't mean "overpowered" if you can't be killed.

Many RPers (not just here but it applies to here too) don't allow their characters to be perma-killed, usually because its not up to the *other* person, its up to the owner of the character. Many times weeks, months, sometimes years of thought and development has gone into a character and its not so simple as "oh you're right that would kill him, ok he's dead now - reroling." For many text based RPs (like in chat/games and in forums) that's just not reality (that unless you can be perma killed you're overpowered).

Now - I will say if you're playing or RPing a "villian" then its more likely the person has plans for the character to be able to be killed off - thereby resolving the storyline and allowing peole to moveon with the plot. But again, when that character is able to be killed off is more in the head of its owner and not those trying to "kill" it. He's not going to just let it be killed off in a week (for example) if its meant to drive months of plot.

And when you're dealing with lore like Istaria - where technically, all players are "gifted", then there is no "perma-death" so to speak. Of course players of their own characters can decide otherwise, but again I don't feel it should be the "expectation" that any character (good or evil) you come into contact with you "assume" that you can kill it if you tried hard enough. No, actually, most of the time, you can't - no matter what you may try to do.

Again this is different from tabletop where its stats and dice rolls and damage is clearly taken until the character is "Dead" (though in many games again they can be rezed or saved or somesuch even after death).

And if you are thinking some "villian" or someone has lived out their usefulness, then its up to you to talk OOC wise to the owner of the character - find out if they have any plans for any growth (i.e. he works to get converted to god), or if they have their own plans as to how the villian will fade from the plotline/die/etc. If it is true that they don't plan on the badguy changing, evolving, or disappearing - then you may have issues because noone likes to fight a villian they can never defeat or win against - the plot gets stale and people give up trying to do anything.

So still its all about balance, and communication!

Immortality without exception is a form of Power Gaming IMO. It can be HARD, VERY HARD, to kill someone for good. Maybe in the end what becomes of them is more that they become reborn differently even and that is acceptable BUT to be absolutely indestructible is reserved for Gods.

That goes for both Villains AND Heroes however. I do not believe "Being Good" makes you immune to that line of thinking. Who is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder and the best Villains never SEE themselves as being Villains. In their minds and to their supporters THEY are the Hero and the "good guys" are the Villains.

In Shinkuu's case the thing she killed did not completely go away forever but I have not seen it since. However, as I mentioned it was a void creature and so to say it existed to begin with is only partially true.

[Shinkuu]

And yet - no offence to you - I have heared others - also not mentioning who - complain that Shinkuu's a hullariously BAD character.

The question being - is it really other people that draw the line out of their own personal opinion? Or is it the truth?

Considering Bad and Good are very subjective terms I would have to say they draw the line out of their own personal opinion which is what we ALL do without exception.

They are entitled to said opinion and if they want me to explain anything to help them better understand then I would be willing but I do not care immensely if they like Shinkuu or not. She was SUPPOSED to straddle the line between Villain and Hero and be almost more hated than liked but events made her go a bit soft. She understands hate better though so anyone who takes that attitude towards her will be most acceptable.

The funny thing is she sticks more to the reality of the game world and its mechanics than even Zarla does because with Zarla I tend to take some of the mechanics and lore to their logical conclusions instead of just going with in-game spells and abilities as the limiting factor. Shinkuu if you ever see her fight almost in a more dull way tends to only use the spells and abilities she knows. I just try to interpret their actual RP effect as best as possible. (As you mentioned in other posts of course, going with just a number is hard in RP as it does not translate directly into something a character can respond to.)

[Fix]

Yet another question is raised - Killing players. Do you think they should use their heads to see that 'yeah, my charcter's doomed', or is the usual task of questioning players as to weither or not they want their characters killed truelly effective?

[Raptress]

Yet another question is raised - Killing players. Do you think they should use their heads to see that 'yeah, my charcter's doomed', or is the usual task of questioning players as to weither or not they want their characters killed truelly effective?

I'm assuming that you mean permanently killing player characters with this question.

Whether or not a character gets permakilled is completely and 100% up to the person playing that character. If they go with pure logic and can accept a reroll after a fight or whatever that their character could not logically have escaped alive, then that's up to them. If they never want their character to die, that's also up to them.

It can get to be a problem if someone plays a villain that the player both refuses to let die and refuses to change, because then people get fed up with being powerless against this character and then a whole dramastorm usually follows. Generally in these cases, there's not a lot of helping it. If someone's determined to play a character like that, they're going to keep doing it.

I do not think that a player should be required to allow their character to die permanently. A lot of work and thought and time goes into many characters, and I personally would not be having fun anymore if a character I liked playing was permakilled. So I don't play that way.

[Sereamha]

Yet another question is raised - Killing players. Do you think they should use their heads to see that 'yeah, my charcter's doomed', or is the usual task of questioning players as to weither or not they want their characters killed truelly effective?

If we are talking about just killing and them recalling or being raised later, then you don't REALLY have to ask permission if things are being played out logically.

If you speak of permanently killing (which as was stated before, is a nearly IMPOSSIBLE thing to do unless you have a credible backstory and somewhat lore-safe way to back it up), you ALWAYS must work something out with the other player OOCly. If they are totally against it, you can both figure something out for the given situation. Maybe they are permanently injured or handicapped in some way instead. If a situation becomes THAT serious and gets to a point where you have the other character cornered, they should not get out of it scott-free. ^^ You just have to come to an agreement with the other player.

[Frith-Rae]

I was going to get into more detail but I see Raptress and Sere pretty much said what I was thinking.

(Keeping in mind my posts aren't necessarily to do with JUST Istaria, but RP in general in other scenarios as well, I wasn't really thinking this was a discussion of OP characters is Istaria only..but maybe it is and I misread it lol).

Perma killing, as Sere said, needs to be done only with other players permission (cuz they ain't gonna just die cuz you said so lol). Trying to kill another player and getting mad if they aren't allowing it, esp. if you haven't even talked to them about it, is just needless dramaz. Most players, regardless in Istaria or elsewhere, just won't allow it unless they decided whent hey created the character it was "temporary for this plot" or something.

Temp. killing of players can happen (esp. in Istaria since we're gifted and we go rez regardless..) anytime but STILL needs to be discussed OOC FIRST! Again, unless you've hashed it out with the player they won't necessarily realize what is it your trying to do - so even if you lash out and hit the hatchlign with "oober gold rage 9000" if the player doesn't want to die int he scene he just won't.

Whereas a brief two minute discusion OOC wise can clear all that up.

Of course, if the player still doesnt' want to then you have to respect it. You can choose to not engagte that player in fights/conflicts anymore as a result. But you can't kill another character in any way unless the OTHER person RPs that death. Otherwise its godmodding and highly irksome to those involved and anyone reading.

As always - COMMUNICATE!! Still

[Draustin]

One thing I strongly suggest if you wish a powerful character to be more well accepted is to spend a good deal of time bringing your character up to power. My character, Akrion, has been a blood mage with a heavy focus in spirit magic since the day of his creation in January 09. He didn't start powerful, he gradually grew into power.

Over the course of the last two years, Akrion's RP experiences have been quite vast and I personally say that Akrion's power over spirit/blood magic is unrivaled, and I say this at the expense of the fact that in order for someone to get such an intense focus in the magic, they'd have to really skimp on every other school of magic so he is very unskilled in other magics, even Blight despite the fact spiritists are normally good at it. I also rarely ever use his powers to anywhere near their full extent, he's lost more fights than he won even though he probably could have won them. I take a great deal of time and care in balancing my character and because of this a number of people would agree with Akrion being as powerful as he is in spirit magic.

Even though it can take time, I really advise not creating a character that's near instantly powerful. For one, it's not always fun playing a super powerful character, which is why I've developed Akrion's philosophy behind using his powers the way I did. It still leaves him to have his *** kicked should some random person want to fight him for whatever reason. But when it really matters, he's near untouchable save for a few tricks. And for two, the more gradually you grow your character into such a role, the more your character is generally supported and accepted by others.

what of those that play the game just for RP? you guys may find leveling in this game fun, but others do not, and i myself am simply incapable of doing so. it's said that it's best to keep IC and OOC separated, i think that applies here as well.

oh, and as for the line where OP starts is. dragons have been given a ton of abilities and bipeds have nothing to match it. for example, aparently everyone says they have such a high heat resistance they BATHE in lava...bull. while i'm sure they have a high heat resistance, if it's organic, it burns. they say that a dragon in a quest said he takes lava baths, i'm sure he does...with an enchantment, or in a bath with a -small- bit of lava in it along with other substances. everyone also says they are incredibly strong, i doubt it. imagine the strength of a half-giant, and thats how strong a dragon is. they have the same starting stats. with how everyone portrays them, they're OP.

the reason the dragon thing bothers me is because all i see are dragons everywhere, only the occasional biped. logicly, it should be the other way around, but with bipeds being a thousand times weaker than dragons IC, not many want to play bipeds.

[LungTien Temeraire]

We aren't there to start another dragons VS bipeds discussion, but there are some dragon NPCs, at Dralk and around (Lantenal the hermit, and one of the dragons in the floating rooms, for example), who talk, while the player does some of their quests, about taking lava baths. If Istaria was realistic, with organic things who burn, there wouldn't be magic, teleport, undeads, spirits, spells,...
The choice to play a dragon or a biped belongs to the player who does it, at the end.

[Thenalth]

for example, aparently everyone says they have such a high heat resistance they BATHE in lava...bull. while i'm sure they have a high heat resistance, if it's organic, it burns. they say that a dragon in a quest said he takes lava baths, i'm sure he does...with an enchantment, or in a bath with a -small- bit of lava in it along with other substances.

I have to confess, i think you've forgotten the lore behind Dragons here Draustin, by Istarian Lore, Dragons are pretty much Fire Elementals, embodiments of fire given physical form. So it should be easily understandable that they can withstand lava. How can they even easily fill the dragon statue mold with Lava if they can't withstand it?

[Raptress]

How can they even easily fill the dragon statue mold with Lava if they can't withstand it?

A better question and an example that I fully believe supports the idea that dragons can withstand lava: Why would Lunus dragons build all their lair chambers with lava if it could kill them? It would make no sense. I, too, am pretty sure I've seen at least one NPC casually referring to a lava bath as if it's something dragons do all the time. Dragons being able to bathe in lava is pretty much an accepted thing amongst most of the RP playerbase.

Also, while dragons are very powerful up front, bipeds have the potential to become far more powerful in the game by leveling up multiple schools. To be honest, the ability of a dragon to kill a biped or a biped to kill a dragon in the arena isn't an entirely great thing to completely base RP off of. This game is in no way balanced for PvP, nor will it ever be. Real PvP tends to amount to who gets off their uber attack first and one-shots the other player. One-shots don't make for terribly exciting RP.