Blight comments

[Chasing]

Playing as a dragon character is about your character growing as it ages.

It makes perfect sense that adult and ancient should be able to do things that their earlier forms can't.

between 30-50 the majority of players may ascend to adult

between 90-100 the majority of players may ascend to ancient.

If someone takes a hatchie to 100, then they aren't following the natural flow of the game, they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

If I was going to be purist here, I would say that hatchlings should be restricted from doing any adventure quests above 50 to bring them in line with the ancient/adult differences. However thats not my decision to make :P

[LOVWYRM]

I agree with Guaran, Amon, Velea and Chasing .

Makes all a lot of sense for me.

I shall never be a doctor or unversity professor if I refuse to take all the exams-
nor shall I be allowed to work as such.

[Thicklesip]

That is a very good metaphor, Lov! If I can borrow it for a minute--

If I never get my degree I'm not going to be a doctor. But you don't have to be a doctor to buy groceries.


(Some people think fewer things should be tied to the maturity of a dragon. Some people think more things should be tied to the maturity of a dragon. The devs have final say, but I do think it's interesting to see what people think-- and have us do our best to convince the devs, of course. )

[Sigi]

Playing as a dragon character is about your character growing as it ages.

It makes perfect sense that adult and ancient should be able to do things that their earlier forms can't.

It would make sense if it were things a hatchie couldn't do it's whole hatchie life. not just the last 2 or 3 steps.

between 30-50 the majority of players may ascend to adult

between 90-100 the majority of players may ascend to ancient.

All the heated discussions about when to do rop, is it too soon, can you do enough yourself and now, because "the majority" is doing it at a certain stage, one is almost obliged? I don't think so.

If someone takes a hatchie to 100, then they aren't following the natural flow of the game, they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

You don't make the choice to bypass, you have to make the choice to do ROP. My dragon is 60/60 now and till now I haven't had to bypass anything. Nowhere till now the "natural flow" of the game offered me to become an adult and I doubt if it will.

If I was going to be purist here, I would say that hatchlings should be restricted from doing any adventure quests above 50 to bring them in line with the ancient/adult differences. However thats not my decision to make :P

And I'm glad it's not cause really it's based on nothing supported by the "flow of the game" natural or not.

[Chasing]

This where you and I have differing opinions Sigi. I'm doing what I normally do and play devils advocate.

Is being able to complete the high level adventure quests as a hatchie (aka juvenile) 'right'?

It certainly isn't if you compare adult and ancient as that precedent has been set.

You don't make the choice to bypass, you have to make the choice to do ROP. My dragon is 60/60 now and till now I haven't had to bypass anything. Nowhere till now the "natural flow" of the game offered me to become an adult and I doubt if it will.

If the game isn't telling you about the ROP around level 30ish, then this suggests something is missing (regardless of whether ROP should be completed at 30 or not), players should be guided towards the ROP as it is available from 30ish.

Natural flow would be when a quest becomes available, as that is the level it has been deemed the correct point to take the quest. In this case ROP at becomes available 30-40.

As for your 60/60 Hatchie, you have missed all 3 of the faction breaths as they require adult and 50 adventure (excluding current blight changes).

[Sigi]

Natural flow would also mean you wouldn't be able to level a hatchie beyond that "natural" 50 border then and please DON't see this as a suggestion! I personally don't care if the "last" few ability quests are available for a hatchie or not -although it would be nice and in the line of expectation -
I am certainly not asking for all the quests being available for hatchies. I don't care about missing out on the faction breaths as a hatchie, that's a choice I make.
I do object to the picture you paint like it's -almost- cheating (or at least unnatural) staying a hatchie beyond 50 and doing high level adventure quests. I find that almost insulting.
A hatchie still can't fly and is still missing out on all those wonderfull things an adult / ancient does have (like a big ugly butt ) so what's the problem?

[Sigi]

Perhaps it boils down to this for me:
In my opinion, "natural" or not isn't a viable convincing argument.
It's a game, it's all constructed and made up.

[awdz]

I agree with Akrion and Sigi in that I do not think hatchlings should be forced to ascend at 50 or miss out on major portions of the game.

IMO, skills that they have been developing all along, they should continue to be able to develop. Level-based quests that are not part of ascension rites, they should be able to do. They would not do breath quests, Shield of Gold, etc., and certainly would not fly, but they would be able to craft high level spells/armor/etc. and fight visciously even if lacking some of the special attacks an adult or ancient uses. Experience should count.

[Chasing]

Yes it's a game, as I've already said also where people have differing opinions.

I've made a couple of suggestions, just because I've raised a suggestion doesn't automatically mean its going to be included into the game design.

The subject here is different dragon forms are restricted from doing certain quests, which also have a level restriction. So I've raised the question about hatchies.

Quote back to what I said 2/3 posts ago regarding high level hatchies.

they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

[Dracaena]

I can see both sides of the fence on whether adult or ancient on the final steps of the ability chains so am not going to comment on that. What does trouble me no small bit is the very mixed messages we are getting for when to become adult.
　


I always thought the adult rites were geared for a lv50 hatchling and being able to get a *what would you like your tombstone to say* quest at 30 was just that. Possible with enormous amount of help but too high to really tackle yet. Hence why we have some very nice lv50 hatchling scales. Problem being most (on Chaos) consider them obsolete with a vengeance crafter. However that isn't the case on Order (no vengeance crafter), although many are rp dragons who only ascend for their story and could care less what scale they have on (based on what I see later as the few middle range adults look for a scale maker and I have them link what they have on). Now we will have a breath quest at lv40 adult. This knocks the lv50 hatchling scales completely out of the water.

The breath quests at lv50 were again more of a "what would you like your tombstone to say" at 50. Unless you had some big guns to come with you more levels were needed before it was really viable to do. How will they be able to do the quest at 40, unless the targets are getting revamped?
　


The problem I observe with ascending at lv30 is many fly around for a week or three and then poof, early fliers often vanish. I think this may be due to the fact the hatchling really couldn't do much but watch others do their quest. There is no real sense of accomplishment, of "I Did It!". Epic quest lines should be epic, the old class weapon quests in original EQ took you though heck and high water. But when you finally got that weapon you had the satisfaction of a reward well earned and a feeling of accomplishment. The early fliers don't get that. It seems to me the beggars you get in every game who generally ask for money, instead ask for someone to do their rites. Istarian style beggars.

What really boggled my mind recently was a conversation in New Trismus on Chaos, I was playing my lv34 hatchling. The new(er) player thought I was some kind of freak for not being adult already. I don't think they understood at all when I tried to explain I was too little and wanted to get my hatchling scales before even thinking about starting the rites. Something has gone very wrong that people think you MUST do rites at 30.
　


But that aside, you then have this level thirty something hatchling ready to ascend and they go to Peak of Storms. Which is now inhabited by ghost dragons and a rift clone of Elial. This doesn't follow lore. The dragons who happened to be at Sleeper's Peak the day the humans took their battle there withdrew when the armies approached. Few dragons stayed to observe. Many more bipeds died that day then dragon and there should be biped ghosts there.

Why the rift clone lv160 Elial instead of the lv70 version that used to be there? I hear he does a good job of one shotting ascension party members who are trying to guard this thirty something hatchling up to the platform. Does put a damper on having low level friends come as guests. I understand Elial is intended now to be this way and I hear he will work to complete your ancient rite if you botch the fight in the rift. I really don't understand what was ever wrong with the way the ghosts on the peak used to be.
　



Dracaena the Confused

[Starstilanxs]

Alright, reading through this thread. I -entirely- agree with Akrion and Raptress.

Do NOT make it more difficult on adults by requiring them to ascend to gain these abilities.

First of all, people who Role-Play enjoy having adult characters, they play them as they are and develop them as -adults-. These characters are generally also used to actually play the game with, you take away their ability to progress their characters more gameplay wise because they want to remain as adults for RP purposes. Maybe this is ok for people who just want to play the game (not speaking for everyone of course) but it is -not- right to do something like this and essentually crippling their gameplay progression.

It will make them inferior because they no longer have the ability to gain these higher teir abilities, basically giving them a choice. Either they ascend to gain these abilities, or be signifigantly weaker than ancients who have these higher teir abilities because they refuse to ascend from an RP standpoint.

In a nutshell:
There are -many- of us who have adult characters who we won't ascend due to RP purposes, doing this will essentually screw us over on the gameplay aspect and progression.

[meepsa]

ok, I think this needs to be repeated once more adults are not being defected by taking away abilities

all these quests that need ancient now, weren't there to begin with, they have just been recently added, so it's more of an ancient buff than an adult nerf, because adults ARE AS STRONG AS THEY WERE, now ancients can be stronger, which to me, makes allot of sense.

they are not "taking away" quests for adults, they are limiting them to the high ranks of the NEW quests

[LOVWYRM]

Draca, I sign what you`ve said. We had that discussion in other threads,
and I still think its bad for the game, if RoP is done too early-and this is
more rule than exception nowadays.

Concerning Elial on peak: He`s a good guy there- he is not aggro.
We had not probs guiding our hatchies up there.
If someone wakes him up by accident: You cannot fight him without group-
but you can pull him away- he will follow you-not the hatchie.

I agree to you too Meeps: Those who decide to stay adult, will not have to face the challanges that ancients have to fight. I see no sense in fighting a big mob, knowing that most important weapons (flame burst) or abilities (rezz)
are missing.

[Kesqui]

Concerning Elial on peak: He`s a good guy there- he is not aggro..

As of today - May 14th - I can confirm that Elial AND the Pale Hatchlings on the Peak of Storms walk are both very definitely aggressive mobs. I landed near Elial with Kesqui and he charged and one-shotted me.

I seem to remember when Kesqui ascended to adult - back in 2004 - that the mobs on the island were bipeds, not dragons, including a normal-biped-sized Elial the Shade (or something to that effect).

[LOVWYRM]

lol-ok- I was not clear enough with that: I mean: You can sneak around him,
lead your group carefully up the hill.
Landing on his big toe.. I`m sure he does not like that. Will never try^^

[Starstilanxs]

ok, I think this needs to be repeated once more adults are not being defected by taking away abilities

all these quests that need ancient now, weren't there to begin with, they have just been recently added, so it's more of an ancient buff than an adult nerf, because adults ARE AS STRONG AS THEY WERE, now ancients can be stronger, which to me, makes allot of sense.

they are not "taking away" quests for adults, they are limiting them to the high ranks of the NEW quests

Read my post carefully.

I state that they -are- stunting people who do not want to ascend to ancient by refusing to allow them to get these abilities because -they want to remain adults for RP purposes- Sure, they are as strong as they where, but they will not be able to continue on with gameplay within higher teir ability quests. There is no point in this, you should -not- have to be required to become an ancient to gain these abilities. You should -not- have to be forced to ascend to ancient to continue teired ability quests.

Input from me and other Role Players seem to be not having any effect on this so I end my posts in this thread here.

[Darkwing_Duck]

As do I. A completely unnecessary change. What is this? Every single dragon in Istaria should now all be Ancients and only Ancients? (Ancient Melee Dragons, at that with casters considered). No diversity. Tough luck if you don't want to be Ancient, you're just going to have to deal with being significantly more inferior now. Direct and nudge everybody to the absolute endgame of content by making it increasingly pointless to try and remain unique. The WoW method. If you're not on the top of the tier and kitted out in *this exact way*, you're wasting your time.

I'm sorry, Amon, but changes like this make no sense.

I couldn`t agree more. not to mention ancient dragons (sizes) tend to take more RAM, and video card speed, so people with less powerfull computers sometimes rather stay adults. least from what I`ve heard. course I could be wronge, but either way. why do this? I can understand epic spells/abilities like Drulkar`s wrath, and acid breath. but all the basic abilities? O.o

[Kesqui]

I state that they -are- stunting people who do not want to ascend to ancient by refusing to allow them to get these abilities because -they want to remain adults for RP purposes-

No more than hatchlings are "stunted" by not being able to get Breath of Ice, Breath of Lightning, Breath of Fire II and III ...

Adults aren't losing anything - and if you choose to stay an Adult, why should you have abilities that belong to the Ancients? As it stands now, an adult that hasn't been through the Rift cannot get the highest live version of Spiked Scales / Drain Strike.